Mage changes *post suggestions here, not in SoD discussion*
- Thread starter tinkaa
- Start date
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Why not simply add a mage/necro/bst pet line that specializes in ranged combat? Say, a familair-type pet that loiters near its owner and lobs class-apropos spells instead of engaging directly in melee. This pet would do less dps than the normal one, for obvious reasons, but wouldn't be vulnerable to rampage+ww.
BranFlakes
Dalayan Adventurer
Thinkmeats said:
That sounds familiar!
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
bufferofnewbies said:
You win again, thread!
In my defense, I read the thread when it was two pages (when I made my first post), then only read the posts since my post when I made this newest one, and in the interim I forgot your post :dumb:
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Well the thing I see a bit odd regarding the addition of a pet like that is that it would be incredibly situational. I mean situational is good, it's one of the reasons I liked leveling up as a mage in the first place (no slower? Waterpet, caster mobs? Airpet, Soloing before you acquire the first root? Earthpet, In a group with a slower and fighting melee mobs? Firepet). But I don't see it getting used even what I'd consider often. Pretty much restricted to raids essentially as there's not really a zone in the game that I've seen yet where everything rampages. Thuis making another pet choice automatically come out ahead. Rebuffing the pets is a necessity for effectiveness now from what I've seen, and there's no way in hell a group or raid is going to sit there for 5 minutes while a mage swaps their pet for a generally insignificant amount of dps, and rebuffs it after the mage summons a new one.
As far as I've seen the pet also has another usage, being the only form of aggro control a mage has. Other than of course earthsplit (which really really blows compared to most other roots I've seen, but we deal).
Miscellaneous other thoughts. I havent noticed too terribly big of a problem on our current resist adjustments, and would much prefer the addition of an icenuke or rain line simply for the added dimension of strategy it would bring to the class, rather than a simple here's some buffs situation.
Share aggro component of elemental mastery A++! Kickass idea
Fire based rain, yes oh god yes. Preferably nonrelic as well. So y'know nonraiders can get and use it, or mages actually have a chance to see it before a year or so of raiding.
Druid dps in my mind is far far too close to mage dps. Is it mana efficent? No, but I'm failing to see why a healing class gets to do even close to that amount. Can mages heal? Our pets, yeah, very inefficiently I might add, with a truly ludicrous recast. Wrath of the skies isn't too far off from bladewind from what I've seen either I might add. With wrath doing around 1930ish with damage increment 4 and bladewind doing 2017 with damage increment 6. Sure wrath has some disadvantages, but I fail to see why a normal spell on a non-dps class should even come close to approaching the damage of a dps class's relic nuke (unless it's highly specialized with various focus effects included, like dissolvement of shadows with high bane increment and damage increment).
Petsplosion: still best idea ever. Single target, like manaburn. Similar restrictions, similar damage, but based on the pet's hp as well. It could even be linked to the pettimer.
As far as I've seen the pet also has another usage, being the only form of aggro control a mage has. Other than of course earthsplit (which really really blows compared to most other roots I've seen, but we deal).
Miscellaneous other thoughts. I havent noticed too terribly big of a problem on our current resist adjustments, and would much prefer the addition of an icenuke or rain line simply for the added dimension of strategy it would bring to the class, rather than a simple here's some buffs situation.
Share aggro component of elemental mastery A++! Kickass idea
Fire based rain, yes oh god yes. Preferably nonrelic as well. So y'know nonraiders can get and use it, or mages actually have a chance to see it before a year or so of raiding.
Druid dps in my mind is far far too close to mage dps. Is it mana efficent? No, but I'm failing to see why a healing class gets to do even close to that amount. Can mages heal? Our pets, yeah, very inefficiently I might add, with a truly ludicrous recast. Wrath of the skies isn't too far off from bladewind from what I've seen either I might add. With wrath doing around 1930ish with damage increment 4 and bladewind doing 2017 with damage increment 6. Sure wrath has some disadvantages, but I fail to see why a normal spell on a non-dps class should even come close to approaching the damage of a dps class's relic nuke (unless it's highly specialized with various focus effects included, like dissolvement of shadows with high bane increment and damage increment).
Petsplosion: still best idea ever. Single target, like manaburn. Similar restrictions, similar damage, but based on the pet's hp as well. It could even be linked to the pettimer.
tinkaa
*fake Tinkerbell*
I'm testing my mage on raids now (hopefully parses will be good enough).
CoD - could only use fire nuke (level 62), which does 1625dd with cunning and DI6. Very very subpar for a dps class there - magic rains and nukes got resisted way too much (~400 cha buffed, couldn't even land malosini oner malo and tash on Kextal and Delvin). I'll post parses later on and edit this (will redo in EQcompanion, results in Yalp are really shameful for a mage with 450 aas, full relics etc).
The Barrier Ward AA is delicious and superawesome there, though.
Will take me a few hours to clear the log and a few computer crashes to see the results, but far from what a mage DPs should be there.
EDIT: - added parses
Delvin the keeper (figured he resisted pretty much all magic damage) - mage 152 dps, pet 119 dps (fully buffed pet,relic focus, sv, cotp, eotw for attack, used frenzied burnout near end, too) - exceptionally MR, averagely FR (only used fire nuke, level 62, which does 1625 DD with cunning, tarhyl's fiery focus and DI6)
Arch Mage Kextal (couldn't even land malosini over malo) - mage 107 dps, pet 73 dps (used barrier ward and he didn't get hit by ae once) - exceptionally MR, very FR according to bard jayla's [on a side note, our bard did more dps (~260) than my mage with ~400 cha buffed and 200 aas more than him]
Farguziar (landed malosini on 1st try fine, but didn't use rains) - 160 dps, pet 77 dps
Those are more or less the only raids I played my mage on, mostly because according to jayla's mobs were either more resistant to magic than anything else or because those are specific fights where you don't need pets, fire DS and mod rods and we rather put another necro/wiz inc.
Pet (I always make sure he's fully buffed, wear focuses when I zone, summon him mage stuff):
-relic pet
-comp health 6
-comp str 6
-ancient pet haste
-bauble of battle (+ daggers)
-all relic shaman buffs, sv and call of the predator
The 2 main spells mages use (rains+magic nukes, be it storm of steel or baldewind, level 60 rain or relic rain) - do more damage than fire nuke. I usually start off with mala, stick malosini over it, then relic rain, relic nuke, alternate the two - while you wait for the rain timer to refresh, you cast nuke and vice versa (the rain still does damage when you're casting the nuke).
If the mob is resistant to magic, you are pretty much stuck with 62 nuke until archaic.
Fire rain wouldn't solve all problems (not being able to use rain when there are adds nearby..) - but it would make fights where magic is basically impossible to use much easier. It would still limit mages to only 2 types of magic damage.
My suggestion is: add fire based rain at level 63:
does 770 base damage and costs ~470 mana
Pet explosion would be nice addition - would be awesome if it was unresistable.
No idea on what timer it should be - but being able to blow up every pet woud be ok (recast time on pet is 2 minutes and it takes quite some time to summon new one) - if it would do the damage of pet's current hp, I'd like it. That way it wouldn't be too overpowered when the pet would be freshly summoned and non-buffed with hp buffs.
This would be more an option for fights where mages wouldn't be able to land many fire or magic nukes - I hate summoning new pet, begging others for hp and attack buffs and equipping it anew (+swapping my gear so the pet would benefit from the focuses). That's why I think it wouldn't be overpowered since (at least my pet, see above) the pet is 70-120 constant dps and blowing it up and having no pet for 2 next minutes (in fact even more since you'd have to cast new pet and it would have less hitpoints without buffs + casting new pet would take time, during which the mage couldn't nuke) would actually be less dps than having the pet all the time.
Another thing - would pet sacrificing be single targetted (the mage's target, the target the pet is fighting or would it be AE? I think a single targetted damage would be fine, using the mage's target)
I'd also like to see another form of manadrain being added to mages (we have a level 59 rain that drains 50mana/wave) - maybe single target 500 manadrain that would cost the mage ~300 mana.
It would add some diversity to mages - manadrain, use different nukes/rains depending on mob, blowing up the pet... Having to actually mem different spells depending on the mob - not just the 3 nukes and mala/malosini, pet heal..
Sorry for the messed up post, I'm no good at these things
CoD - could only use fire nuke (level 62), which does 1625dd with cunning and DI6. Very very subpar for a dps class there - magic rains and nukes got resisted way too much (~400 cha buffed, couldn't even land malosini oner malo and tash on Kextal and Delvin). I'll post parses later on and edit this (will redo in EQcompanion, results in Yalp are really shameful for a mage with 450 aas, full relics etc).
The Barrier Ward AA is delicious and superawesome there, though.
Will take me a few hours to clear the log and a few computer crashes to see the results, but far from what a mage DPs should be there.
EDIT: - added parses
Delvin the keeper (figured he resisted pretty much all magic damage) - mage 152 dps, pet 119 dps (fully buffed pet,relic focus, sv, cotp, eotw for attack, used frenzied burnout near end, too) - exceptionally MR, averagely FR (only used fire nuke, level 62, which does 1625 DD with cunning, tarhyl's fiery focus and DI6)
Arch Mage Kextal (couldn't even land malosini over malo) - mage 107 dps, pet 73 dps (used barrier ward and he didn't get hit by ae once) - exceptionally MR, very FR according to bard jayla's [on a side note, our bard did more dps (~260) than my mage with ~400 cha buffed and 200 aas more than him]
Farguziar (landed malosini on 1st try fine, but didn't use rains) - 160 dps, pet 77 dps
Those are more or less the only raids I played my mage on, mostly because according to jayla's mobs were either more resistant to magic than anything else or because those are specific fights where you don't need pets, fire DS and mod rods and we rather put another necro/wiz inc.
Pet (I always make sure he's fully buffed, wear focuses when I zone, summon him mage stuff):
-relic pet
-comp health 6
-comp str 6
-ancient pet haste
-bauble of battle (+ daggers)
-all relic shaman buffs, sv and call of the predator
The 2 main spells mages use (rains+magic nukes, be it storm of steel or baldewind, level 60 rain or relic rain) - do more damage than fire nuke. I usually start off with mala, stick malosini over it, then relic rain, relic nuke, alternate the two - while you wait for the rain timer to refresh, you cast nuke and vice versa (the rain still does damage when you're casting the nuke).
If the mob is resistant to magic, you are pretty much stuck with 62 nuke until archaic.
Fire rain wouldn't solve all problems (not being able to use rain when there are adds nearby..) - but it would make fights where magic is basically impossible to use much easier. It would still limit mages to only 2 types of magic damage.
My suggestion is: add fire based rain at level 63:
does 770 base damage and costs ~470 mana
Pet explosion would be nice addition - would be awesome if it was unresistable.
No idea on what timer it should be - but being able to blow up every pet woud be ok (recast time on pet is 2 minutes and it takes quite some time to summon new one) - if it would do the damage of pet's current hp, I'd like it. That way it wouldn't be too overpowered when the pet would be freshly summoned and non-buffed with hp buffs.
This would be more an option for fights where mages wouldn't be able to land many fire or magic nukes - I hate summoning new pet, begging others for hp and attack buffs and equipping it anew (+swapping my gear so the pet would benefit from the focuses). That's why I think it wouldn't be overpowered since (at least my pet, see above) the pet is 70-120 constant dps and blowing it up and having no pet for 2 next minutes (in fact even more since you'd have to cast new pet and it would have less hitpoints without buffs + casting new pet would take time, during which the mage couldn't nuke) would actually be less dps than having the pet all the time.
Another thing - would pet sacrificing be single targetted (the mage's target, the target the pet is fighting or would it be AE? I think a single targetted damage would be fine, using the mage's target)
I'd also like to see another form of manadrain being added to mages (we have a level 59 rain that drains 50mana/wave) - maybe single target 500 manadrain that would cost the mage ~300 mana.
It would add some diversity to mages - manadrain, use different nukes/rains depending on mob, blowing up the pet... Having to actually mem different spells depending on the mob - not just the 3 nukes and mala/malosini, pet heal..
Sorry for the messed up post, I'm no good at these things
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
I'lll run one on torment next time we're there. Garn should be there as well so I'll probably be able to get results with relic and nonrelic nuke seeing as I'll probably be botting droogie as well. Seems to be the shittiest place I've ran in so far to be a mage in, and a major raidstep as well.
Manluas
Dalayan Elder
Sidenote (about Torment): IIRC this place is supposed to be very resistant against magic and fire. As a necro I had problems landing poison DoT there while Funeral Pyre (fire) landed at every try. This was with ~250 Cha buffed. I don't know about the resist check on this spell but maybe that's another possibility - adjusting resist modifiers on mage spells.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Most of the jayla's insight pointed to very to exceptionally magic resistant, practically immune to fire, averageish on everything else. I'd have to ask honderik for the list of what was what though. I don't have the ton of problems that I used to, but I'd like to point out that over 400 charisma buffed helps quite extensively on that. When I first went in I was barely hitting max cha buffed. After a particularly annoying abom fight during which I mala'ed then attempted to malosini a grand total of 9 times (yes it was tashed, malo also would not land) I just decided to nuke and ended up doing around 2k damage on it. The entire fight. With bladewind, which does iirc have a -25 resist adjust.
The idea of blowing my pet IMO, not good, cuz as thinkaa said... re makin the pet sux hard... and a buffless pet, is a dead pet or less dps pet.
I still think that maybe our nuke dmgs should be reviewed, or maybe the resist ou our nukes, i dont know how, maybe giveing us some draughts or whatever... less resisted nukes.
Hope we get something done, because seen Tinkaa parses made me a bit more unhappy.
I love playing my mage, wouldnt like to dump him for a Wizard, but wizards seens just way more dps then us. And having more dps, pretty much compensates the lack of a modrod.
I still think that maybe our nuke dmgs should be reviewed, or maybe the resist ou our nukes, i dont know how, maybe giveing us some draughts or whatever... less resisted nukes.
Hope we get something done, because seen Tinkaa parses made me a bit more unhappy.
I love playing my mage, wouldnt like to dump him for a Wizard, but wizards seens just way more dps then us. And having more dps, pretty much compensates the lack of a modrod.
