Low Tier Raid mobs

[volvov2]

So which farming spots have we nerfed in the last 6 months or so given that the last "farming" change i remember was increasing cash drops across the board?

Honestly, its not really PP drops were nerfed, its just that no one is buying anything, I could farm items from my old hunting ground and people wouldn't pay the money I used to sell them for whenever I was farming for my charm. I don't think *anyone* really farms that zone anymore, not that i've noticed at least, maybe someone tries to get a robe or something every once in a while, but that spawn camp is incredible rare, and it usually ends in vain and tears all around. I don't know *why* shit doesn't sell well anymore, but it just doesn't.

 

[Allielyn]

In order to sustain an economy where items themselves do not degrade and disappear over time, a population must offset the item inflation by increasing with as steady a rate as the items enter the economy - with some small offset to account for items leaving the economy from players who leave the game with them.

Supply vs. Demand 101.

 

[volvov2]

Supply vs. Demand 101.

That still doesn't explain why items that no one farms or have farmed but me have only dropped in "value" because the number of available items to sell is dropping with every person who quits or dumps that item onto their twink, with no one farming new ones.


Example:
I farm 10 rings for example, no one else farms it
I sell them all off for 400p.
I wait 5 months, 3 rings get stuck onto alts after the main finished using them, 2 of them retire/quit with them equipped.
5 more rings continue to remain on server, occasionally changing hands.
I farm another ring, it only sells for 200 max, making me not want to farm it again, because its pretty much not worth the effort.

 

[Thinkmeats]

I don't know *why* shit doesn't sell well anymore, but it just doesn't.

First ruins and hhk injected a large pile of extremely good tradable items into the game. That, combined wtih tradeskill items, has largely mooshed RSM et al's importance.

Here's an off-the-cuff idea: What if deepmetal, shadowsilk, everything from FR, upper/basement hhk, and factory Rust was given required level 65?

edit: That's not at all an official policy thing, mind. I'm just wondering what it would do.

 

[volvov2]

I guess the problem is DCing is nowhere as near profitable anymore because its brutal hard to farm in zones with decent drops, and no one wants the lower tiered shit.

Here's an off-the-cuff idea: What if deepmetal, shadowsilk, everything from FR, upper/basement hhk, and factory Rust was given required level 65?

That would probably work, but would piss off alot of people as well! But won't these days... Maybe lvl 60 for them, I dunno.

edit: Dont fuck with tradeskills level requirements, in my opinion, but dropped gear prob yea.

 

[Thinkmeats]

I guess the problem is DCing is nowhere as near profitable anymore because its brutal hard to farm in zones with decent drops, and no one wants the lower tiered shit.

Thing is, farming with a crew *should* be more profitable then DCing. The problem is that there are so many great items flying around from ts or fr or hhk or w/e that the subpar DCable gear doesn't even fill a niche anymore.

That would probably work, but would piss off alot of people as well! But won't these days... Maybe lvl 60 for them, I dunno.

Yeah, it's definitely an ugly solution. Bind on equip or pristine or whatever is much better, but requires coding and is still in "just over the next dune" territory.

 

[Allielyn]

Here's an off-the-cuff idea: What if deepmetal, shadowsilk, everything from FR, upper/basement hhk, and factory Rust was given required level 65?

I honestly think that while it would help increase the value of those farmed items Volk referred to; it would contribute to the devaluation of said changed items - which in my opinion already sell Well Below value (at least, some of the FR pieces and all the upper hhk and deepmetal/shadowsilk pieces)

 

[vistachiri]

Thing is, farming with a crew *should* be more profitable then DCing.

Was it not before? I'm going along with the rationale that with an entire crew, you can kill things far quicker, thus getting more named mobs down. Thus getting more loot, for far less risk, than a dc.

I honestly think that while it would help increase the value of those farmed items Volk referred to; it would contribute to the devaluation of said changed items - which in my opinion already sell Well Below value (at least, some of the FR pieces and all the upper hhk and deepmetal/shadowsilk pieces)

I don't think many people bother with the council spawn anymore, fr pieces probably should be all be req 65, so should probably a great deal of upper hhk. I'd disagree about the dm ssilk though. The stuff already didn't sell very well a month or two ago, from various bitching I heard from tskillers. That wouldn't help them tear off the shelves so to speak.

 

[Thinkmeats]

Yeah, it was just a spitball idea. A level 65 req would help keep the market-flooding cornered to just 65s, but it wouldn't fix the problem (that there's market flooding). Pristine or w/e is a much better solution for that.

 

[Allielyn]

Was it not before? I'm going along with the rationale that with an entire crew, you can kill things far quicker, thus getting more named mobs down. Thus getting more loot, for far less risk, than a dc.

No, it wasn't before; because in any one area you are limited by the amount of time in the respawn and only so many nameds will spawn in any zone on a single rotation. DC duo's, at least, if they are comprised of the "best" setup (needs split/tank/healing/dps all rolled into one: aka Monk/Sham or Monk/Cleric), can clear all the spawns in said rotation in any given zone before respawns occur, or close to it. And the fact of the matter is, even if they were 2x slower in doing it, they'd still come off better than if they had to split the cash/item drops with a minimum of two other RL people in a full group.

Anti-farm code helped this (group vs. duo item drops) a Little, though it did little to address the other issues, and iirc isn't as harsh as it could be (3x less the chance seems fair to me really).

 

[Kirin Folken]

Many of the cash farmers I have meet in zones are what I would call "lazy" they want camps that have 1 mob that spwans every 20 minutes and drops a 500+ pp item. I have seen many of them sitting in one spot or repeatly killing only 1 group of mobs. Forget the fact that they could plow throw the other mobs in the zone for better cash return. But it would require 100 times the effort there putting into there particular mob/mobs so they just won't do it.

65 I think is a bit harsh on some of those items listed for recommended.. but 60 I think might help and still be ok.
Pristine "blanket" change I still feel is a bad move, however useing pristine on certain items and certain areas I think would have the disired effect (helping to remove certain groups of items from the game).


The Pending No Drop that is planed right now I think is great (and yes I am wearing one of those Pending No Drop items and Have no plans on selling it). I have noticed a sudden panic on the server, Those pending items are all over the place trying to be sold.

Something with these no drop pending items however I can think of at least 1 that might require a bump in power after it becomes fully no drop. After say a month or so it might be worth while to do a quick review of these new no drops items to see if they still fall into there tier of power considering there no drop status.

Something else that I has come up as I have moved into other zones, are item drops that have no Vendor Value. The 2 drops off the guard Sargent in HHK are a good example. Nether of these items have a vendor value and as such players have no way to make money off them other then flooding the player base with these items. Check out listsolds some time you will see 15+ of these items all for the same price trying to get moved. If you want yours to move faster you drop the price and you will sell, but that only increases the flood of this item as every new character with a little pocket change can get one of these items.

Not saying these items (and items like them from other zones) need to have some massive Vendor value, but some vendor value to give people the option to just dump them on a vendor (and removed from the game) instead of flooding the market with them would help with item saturation.

Edit:
As to the Anti-farm code:

I like it over all, however I think there are a few zones that were nailed with it needlessly.

 

[volvov2]

Thing is, farming with a crew *should* be more profitable then DCing. The problem is that there are so many great items flying around from ts or fr or hhk or w/e that the subpar DCable gear doesn't even fill a niche anymore.

A group would almost have to farm long enough for 6 items to drop, or at least 3 (if everyone DCs). Most groups nowadays farming hhk and FR are lucky to get 2 items, i've attempted a few runs deep into FR and havent gotten any nameds to pop after 3-4 hours. If you farm for 2 hours with a duo, you have a better chance of getting one item you can sell, versus getting 6 items for 2 hours of farming (not very likely).

 

[vistachiri]

No, it wasn't before; because in any one area you are limited by the amount of time in the respawn and only so many nameds will spawn in any zone on a single rotation. DC duo's, at least, if they are comprised of the "best" setup (needs split/tank/healing/dps all rolled into one: aka Monk/Sham or Monk/Cleric), can clear all the spawns in said rotation in any given zone before respawns occur, or close to it. And the fact of the matter is, even if they were 2x slower in doing it, they'd still come off better than if they had to split the cash/item drops with a minimum of two other RL people in a full group.

Provided they only kill named + the mobs that are problematic (can add to the pull, can't be invised past etc). I'd expect the dc duo to run spawn to spawn, with different methods depending on area (invis etc) to skip as many mobs as possible. While I would expect the group to wreck as much as possible. Unless of course the mobs in the way drop nothing or very little. Spell chance+Gems+$ from trash should theoretically (based on various conditions, zone, party, etc) allow the group, with or without farming code in place, over time (to mitigate the effects chance has on the outcome) to far outprofit the dc duo in the same amount of time. Wipes also have to be factored in, with the group taking way less risk of one. Since they can take quite a bit of time to recover from, depending on where one is, I'd think they would factor in significantly. If the duo takes down absolutely everything to match the profit of the full group they will take much much much longer. I would figure that would just be a given, at which point the full group will probably be halfway through their 2nd clear at least.

As an aside, and a possible solution, what if in a zone (which doesn't matter, it's more the concept), clearing a certain type of trash mob had a chance of spawning a named of which all mobs of that particular name/type are a ph of. Kind of iffy to explain what I mean here, but think froglok dweller. Kill patrollers, any one of them can be the ph. Same idea. You can even get more than one at once, which doesn't happen often, but it can. Sort of an encouragement to clear more than just ph's and a benefit to full groups over a dc duo. Obviously this loot would not be like the be all end all pieces in zones. But not worthless either.

Kinda like

DC group goes to ZoneA does 5 rotations, only named spawns. Makes 30k in sales from the resulting drops
Group goes to ZoneA does 5 rotations, everything. Same items, same sales. Also makes 5k in various spells/plat/gems. Group A also gets 8 nonbound (calling what I was referencing above for lack of a better word that.) spawns, because they killed everything. Nonbound drops add 15k to the pot.

The group makes 50k, the dcer makes 30k. Sure the resulting split is not nearly as good, but the amount of xp each got should not be overlooked either. In the past this would have been somewhat of a factor, as a max aa'ed character would have absolutely no need for the xp. This is no longer the case, and while the dc group may have made 3x what any one member of the group did (provided the group was made up of 6 individual people, but the numbers don't matter anyways in this example, just using them to get the idea across), the group also made probably somewhere in the area of 30x the xp.

This is kind of like the mobs dropping random pieces of loot, like undercaverns and some fr mobs etc. However I've personally never seen that in particular as an attractant to the zone, as the rates of places like that always seemed very low to me. If they were managed in nonbound named rather than in that manner, with the aforementioned mobs having a lower poprate (to compensate for the amount of chances to pop compared to the statics), it might help in the discrepancies. Also situations that exist like the bloodspawns could be used as an alternative to this as well, to the same effect. Kinda OT for this thread, but an interesting thing to mull over. Figure I'll see what people think, if it has no obvious unmendable holes I'll start a new thread for it as a suggestion

I think there are a few zones that were nailed with it needlessly.

Gonna have to agree there. At least I think so, can't be sure w/out a y/n though as it could always be the rng.

 

[Nurgock]

I farmed 0% of Volkov's money for his charm from red con mobs.

I call bullshit. I also thinks it's a shame that higher tiered people do this. I've gone with a group into DFS before but it was for the purpose of equipping mained chars and not alts.

 

[Thinkmeats]

As an aside, and a possible solution, what if in a zone (which doesn't matter, it's more the concept), clearing a certain type of trash mob had a chance of spawning a named of which all mobs of that particular name/type are a ph of. Kind of iffy to explain what I mean here, but think froglok dweller. Kill patrollers, any one of them can be the ph. Same idea. You can even get more than one at once, which doesn't happen often, but it can. Sort of an encouragement to clear more than just ph's and a benefit to full groups over a dc duo. Obviously this loot would not be like the be all end all pieces in zones. But not worthless either.

Something similar to this has been in the game in Rust factory since the zone has been out. Clearing any mob that is the same sort of mob as the ph of a named has a chance to pop that named at its normal spot. The nameds do a zonewide shout on spawn.

 

[Thinkmeats]

I call bullshit. I also thinks it's a shame that higher tiered people do this. I've gone with a group into DFS before but it was for the purpose of equipping mained chars and not alts.

Yeah, I think me and volk hit Taraztu one time just to see how annoying it was, so probably closer to 1% of volk's money came from red con mobs.

 

[volvov2]

Yeah, I think me and volk hit Taraztu one time just to see how annoying it was, so probably closer to 1% of volk's money came from red con mobs.

Oh yea. My bad.

 

[vistachiri]

Something similar to this has been in the game in Rust factory since the zone has been out. Clearing any mob that is the same sort of mob as the ph of a named has a chance to pop that named at its normal spot. The nameds do a zonewide shout on spawn.

So thaaaats how that happened. I was actually gonna buglist that b/c we killed arbiter, and he popped like 40 seconds later.

 

[Ykari07]

Isn't the Uncontrollable Failure (also in Rust) EXACTLY what you're describing? You kill Loyal Failures, you get a chance for the Uncontrollable to spawn next time. I went up there once and found 3 Uncontrollables on the way to the Free Machines, and then there's plenty of times where I won't see one Uncontrollable for hours.

 

[Thinkmeats]

Isn't the Uncontrollable Failure (also in Rust) EXACTLY what you're describing? You kill Loyal Failures, you get a chance for the Uncontrollable to spawn next time. I went up there once and found 3 Uncontrollables on the way to the Free Machines, and then there's plenty of times where I won't see one Uncontrollable for hours.

Oh yeah, forgot about him. Uncontrollable Failure and The Marksman both have the "everything is a potential PH" thing.