Live Test Thread 2

[GuiardoTuneweaver]

Oh, everywhere I suggested "allowing meditate" I meant at the old, pre-change meditate rate while there is aggro (else it would be overpowering), not the new non-aggro rate. The new rate would still apply when there is no aggro to reduce the downtime.

 

[Wiz]

One solution I think could work amicably all around is to allow medding in-combat at a reduced rate (about old rate), but when you cast a spell, you can not med for X time (15-20 seconds maybe).

That should get rid of sit-cast sit-cast sit-cast, but allow you to opt out of combat for some mana if things are going lopsided.

 

[GuiardoTuneweaver]

One solution I think could work amicably all around is to allow medding in-combat at a reduced rate (about old rate), but when you cast a spell, you can not med for X time (15-20 seconds maybe).

That should get rid of sit-cast sit-cast sit-cast, but allow you to opt out of combat for some mana if things are going lopsided.

The X time would have to be longer, or this wouldn't solve the cleric sitting problem. For normal XP grouping, my cleric doesn't have to heal my warrior every 15-20 seconds, so it will still be better mana-wise for him to heal, sit with no med for 20 secs, sit with med for x secs until the next heal is needed, heal, rince and repeat.

 

[Wiz]

One solution I think could work amicably all around is to allow medding in-combat at a reduced rate (about old rate), but when you cast a spell, you can not med for X time (15-20 seconds maybe).

That should get rid of sit-cast sit-cast sit-cast, but allow you to opt out of combat for some mana if things are going lopsided.

The X time would have to be longer, or this wouldn't solve the cleric sitting problem. For normal XP grouping, my cleric doesn't have to heal my warrior every 15-20 seconds, so it will still be better mana-wise for him to heal, sit with no med for 20 secs, sit with med for x secs until the next heal is needed, heal, rince and repeat.

You're thinking about it wrong. Previously, if you healed every 20 seconds, you'd get:

Heal - sit
Tick of meditate
Tick of meditate
Tick of meditate
Heal - sit

Now you'd get

Heal - sit
Nothing
Nothing
Tick of meditate
Heal - sit

But yeah, I can make it 30 seconds or something.

 

[Duma]

One solution I think could work amicably all around is to allow medding in-combat at a reduced rate (about old rate), but when you cast a spell, you can not med for X time (15-20 seconds maybe).

That should get rid of sit-cast sit-cast sit-cast, but allow you to opt out of combat for some mana if things are going lopsided.

If you were currently medding when a person in your party aggros a mob would your meditation get disturbed for that period of time or would you simply reduce back down to the old rate immediately?

 

[Wiz]

One solution I think could work amicably all around is to allow medding in-combat at a reduced rate (about old rate), but when you cast a spell, you can not med for X time (15-20 seconds maybe).

That should get rid of sit-cast sit-cast sit-cast, but allow you to opt out of combat for some mana if things are going lopsided.

If you were currently medding when a person in your party aggros a mob would your meditation get disturbed for that period of time or would you simply reduce back down to the old rate immediately?

You'd get the reduced rate.

 

[Grachnist]

Perhaps another idea could be that the ammount of agro you have affects the rate of mana you can meditate for while in combat. The more agro you have the more mana you can regen in combat, up to a certain cap of course. Would get healer classes to push it to the limit on gaining agro, forcing them not to just sit there but be DPS, nuke ect. It would also give somewhat of a fix to the situation where you have a mob rooted or mezzed because the group ran OOM, obviously at that point in a hectic fight you would have enough agro (If you played it properly) to get mana back at a fast enough rate. Also would not affect soloing for classes at all because they would be the only ones with agro agains a solo mob.

 

[Wiz]

Perhaps another idea could be that the ammount of agro you have affects the rate of mana you can meditate for while in combat. The more agro you have the more mana you can regen in combat, up to a certain cap of course. Would get healer classes to push it to the limit on gaining agro, forcing them not to just sit there but be DPS, nuke ect. It would also give somewhat of a fix to the situation where you have a mob rooted or mezzed because the group ran OOM, obviously at that point in a hectic fight you would have enough agro (If you played it properly) to get mana back at a fast enough rate. Also would not affect soloing for classes at all because they would be the only ones with agro agains a solo mob.

This is just a plain bad idea all around. CHAINCAST STUN FOR MANA REGEN.

 

[SlicerSV]

i'm amicable to wiz's latest plan, of limited med with an even further limitation of not being able to med for a certain amount of time after casting a spell, it'd permit me to solo effectively again, and even boost my ability to do so (reduce the downtime between pulls)

it doesn't make druid dots affective in parties, but druid dots never really have been effective in parties, having them be effective in solo situations is plenty good enough

i haven't played my chanter enough to be at a point i can know how any of this will effect her, but i'm sure it'll be a good solution for her as well.

 

[Grachnist]

Perhaps another idea could be that the ammount of agro you have affects the rate of mana you can meditate for while in combat. The more agro you have the more mana you can regen in combat, up to a certain cap of course. Would get healer classes to push it to the limit on gaining agro, forcing them not to just sit there but be DPS, nuke ect. It would also give somewhat of a fix to the situation where you have a mob rooted or mezzed because the group ran OOM, obviously at that point in a hectic fight you would have enough agro (If you played it properly) to get mana back at a fast enough rate. Also would not affect soloing for classes at all because they would be the only ones with agro agains a solo mob.

This is just a plain bad idea all around. CHAINCAST STUN FOR MANA REGEN.

Ok yeah its not a candidate for best idea of the year, but it would get the healers off their butts and doing something other then just sit, heal, sit, heal. They would haveto pull their weight not only in healing but in the DPS and or Melee aspect of all fights.

One solution I think could work amicably all around is to allow medding in-combat at a reduced rate (about old rate), but when you cast a spell, you can not med for X time (15-20 seconds maybe).

That should get rid of sit-cast sit-cast sit-cast, but allow you to opt out of combat for some mana if things are going lopsided.

The X time would have to be longer, or this wouldn't solve the cleric sitting problem. For normal XP grouping, my cleric doesn't have to heal my warrior every 15-20 seconds, so it will still be better mana-wise for him to heal, sit with no med for 20 secs, sit with med for x secs until the next heal is needed, heal, rince and repeat.

You're thinking about it wrong. Previously, if you healed every 20 seconds, you'd get:

Heal - sit
Tick of meditate
Tick of meditate
Tick of meditate
Heal - sit

Now you'd get

Heal - sit
Nothing
Nothing
Tick of meditate
Heal - sit

But yeah, I can make it 30 seconds or something.

This seems like a really good idea, but at the same time all it would do is Heal, Melee for 30seconds, then sit. You wouldnt want to cast another spell, nuke or stun because it would just be that much longer until you can get mana again. Perhaps you would only get the 30 second delay after casting heal spells only? Great idea just needs some tweaking.

 

[choco]

"Necro fear" = Wiz is fixing this eventually.

"Crappy puller" = Learn to play

"I can't yank a dozen mobs at once" = Don't then.

"I don't have the mana" = Get a bigger mana pool

It is beyond me how you can pull this from my post. I wasn't talking about pulling dozen mobs at once, or half a dozen, or even 3. Shit happens, and when it does I would at least like to have a fair chance of pulling something out of my ass and getting out alive instead of just giving up and figuring out the best way to get back and rez everyone.

Several people including Wiz seems to atleast understood part of what I was trying to say and seem to agree.

Maybe you should actually read the post and think about it before you go off posting crap. I don't see how trying to be an elitist ass is adding anything constructive to this discussion

 

[GuiardoTuneweaver]

You're thinking about it wrong. Previously, if you healed every 20 seconds, you'd get:

Heal - sit
Tick of meditate
Tick of meditate
Tick of meditate
Heal - sit

Now you'd get

Heal - sit
Nothing
Nothing
Tick of meditate
Heal - sit

But yeah, I can make it 30 seconds or something.

I understood that, but with a meaty tank in a normal xp group, I could easily get:

Heal - sit
Nothing
Nothing
Tick of meditate
Tick of meditate
Heal - sit

So I'd sit instead of mele, because I'm getting half the old med rate which is a lot more than none. Also, I won't mele, because if I mele I can proc, which is a cast and will reset my timer. I won't even nuke as much as I did before, because it will mean another 30 secs of no mana regen.

The timer would have to be larger to have the desired effect on groups with a meaty tank with all the HP buffs and a cleric to heal, which would eliminate any medding for groups with a lesser tank or with a shaman/druid healer.

I'm not sure how you could adjust that timer to be dependent on the tank/group, without making it insanely complicated.

 

[GuiardoTuneweaver]

i haven't played my chanter enough to be at a point i can know how any of this will effect her, but i'm sure it'll be a good solution for her as well.

Actually, if things go bad, it's your chanter that's going to be casting lots of mezes to keep things locked down while the healers med up. She won't be able to med to regain mana due to the casting, and will run OOM faster giving less time to recover.

 

[Wiz]

You're thinking about it wrong. Previously, if you healed every 20 seconds, you'd get:

Heal - sit
Tick of meditate
Tick of meditate
Tick of meditate
Heal - sit

Now you'd get

Heal - sit
Nothing
Nothing
Tick of meditate
Heal - sit

But yeah, I can make it 30 seconds or something.

I understood that, but with a meaty tank in a normal xp group, I could easily get:

Heal - sit
Nothing
Nothing
Tick of meditate
Tick of meditate
Heal - sit

So I'd sit instead of mele, because I'm getting half the old med rate which is a lot more than none. Also, I won't mele, because if I mele I can proc, which is a cast and will reset my timer. I won't even nuke as much as I did before, because it will mean another 30 secs of no mana regen.

The timer would have to be larger to have the desired effect on groups with a meaty tank with all the HP buffs and a cleric to heal, which would eliminate any medding for groups with a lesser tank or with a shaman/druid healer.

I'm not sure how you could adjust that timer to be dependent on the tank/group, without making it insanely complicated.

Who said that a proc would count as a cast? Now you're just making things up.

 

[Grachnist]

I'm not sure how you could adjust that timer to be dependent on the tank/group, without making it insanely complicated.

An idea maybe could be the mana cost of the spell would determine the ammount of delay time between Nothing and getting mana per tic. But at high level when spells cost alot of mana... hmmm.

Take it a bit further, depending on how much of your mana pool a spell takes to cast will determine the ammount of time between No mana regen and Having mana regen.

 

[SlicerSV]

This seems like a really good idea, but at the same time all it would do is Heal, Melee for 30seconds, then sit. You wouldnt want to cast another spell, nuke or stun because it would just be that much longer until you can get mana again. Perhaps you would only get the 30 second delay after casting heal spells only? Great idea just needs some tweaking.

everything needs tweaking, that's why we discuss them, but why make it delay after healing spells only? all that'd do is give druids and necros an unfair advantage: they root (druid only? i admit i don't know much about necros), dot, sit, rather than heal, sit. unless of course the druid is acting as main healer, in which case, they still dump other spells around besides just heal.

 

[GuiardoTuneweaver]

Who said that a proc would count as a cast? Now you're just making things up.

I'm sorry if that's not the case, my bad. I always thought procing was considered casting (it's a spell, resistable, etc), especially since casting focus effects do affect procs. If not, I'll mele for 30 secs then sit. My other points are valid, aren't they?

Any thoughts on the ideas I listed right before your solution? (Anything from stuid, to reasonable but unimplementable, to not-understandable? =P)

 

[Minerios]

A spin-off of the "delayed med" idea: how about one that increases with time? Let's say that after 30 seconds of medding, you are at about the old regen rate. After 60 seconds, you're twice the old rate. And so on and so forth. (ETA: these delays are after beginning to meditate, not the last time you cast a spell. I.e. you sit down, the mana regen time starts.) That would cut long downtime, still be an incentive to do other things than sit down all the time but would also allow for intensive meditation if things go south. Crowd control would become crucial in these scenarios as you simply need to keep your medders from being distrubed so that they can regain enough mana to get going again.

 

[SlicerSV]

Actually, if things go bad, it's your chanter that's going to be casting lots of mezes to keep things locked down while the healers med up. She won't be able to med to regain mana due to the casting, and will run OOM faster giving less time to recover.

that's in the odd case out when things go bad, it's a vocational challenge of a chanter. nothing wrong with having challenges

 

[Zzang]

I would be happy with wiz's latest suggestion. 15-20seconds after casting then being able to med at the old rate seems like a comfortable inbetween.

Playing styles will still be altered a little bit, but not completly changed around, so the feel of things stays about the same.

From an RP stand-point about in-combat med: One could think of it as a "getting in the zone" "tuning out" "focusing" type of period where you can mentally escape from battle and recover.