LIVE TEST - Mana regen/game fun changes
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Wiz
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Appendix based on feedback.
1) Mesmerized mobs will still count as being in combat.
2) If you zone or log out, mobs that were aggro to you will remember you for a couple of minutes OR for as long as it is in combat (whichever is longest) just like feign death memory. This is to prevent players from relogging mid combat to get out of combat mana regen.
1) Mesmerized mobs will still count as being in combat.
2) If you zone or log out, mobs that were aggro to you will remember you for a couple of minutes OR for as long as it is in combat (whichever is longest) just like feign death memory. This is to prevent players from relogging mid combat to get out of combat mana regen.
1 thing i love about this change.. buffing . i can now group invig/skin/regen/ds and regen my mana fast without wastign time and having buffs be less usefull because you gotta recast em sooner
also the 17/17 scim of meil for druids just became more than a pretty clear scrimitar
also the 17/17 scim of meil for druids just became more than a pretty clear scrimitar
Don't know if you've covered something like this or not, but in the past I've personally had problems with this scenario.
A group of friends and I were fighting in Faentharc, in the gemanthians tunnels. Since they flee, they have a tendency to run into the walls and unless you get them rooted/snared or have a pet on them before they get into the wall.....they pretty much get in there and make it so you can't bind wound for a very long time.
And since Im guessing bind wound is setup similarly to this new meditate system, anything that is aggroed and in walls or fleeing.....or being kited/killed slowly by someone who ran over your group with a pull.
It sounds like it could be problematic, and I know it's in testing now....but it also sounds like someone could use this to intentionally cause a lot of problems for you unless the aggro list is changed somehow to reflect cases where the NPC is being actively engaged by another person/group and not your own.
And hopefully people can confirm some of these things as I probably won't have time to setup too many of these scenarios. But in the gemanthian case on bind wound, it took that gemantian from the front section of the cave until we had cleared it almost up to the master to heal and come back out of the wall.
If it works that way with med now, you'd have to zone to fix it.
Possible changes if confirmed that come to mind:
- Make NPCs bleed out and die eventually if they flee for too long.
- Make NPCs regen faster if they haven't been damaged in 60 seconds or some such, but might screw up mezzed hurt npcs.
- Make it so NPCs can't walk through walls when fleeing.
Another thing I think that would make the casters job a little less tedious and follow in line with this med change would be to add in either more group buff spells or lower the recast/mana cost on buffs to accomplish a few things:
- You can get back to medding instead of spending 10+ minutes buffing.
- Sync up buffs easier since LDs occur and throw the timing off often.
I play a shaman/mage combo... and buffing takes a long time on the shaman esp if they want a lot of the agi/dex/sta buff lines since they are single target. And the recast timer on the harnessing of spirit spell is pretty long x6, and other spells added on. Makes buffing take awhile, and maybe that's intended still, dunno. Also summoning has a pretty long recast on spells too. Mod Rod is short, but bandages seems to take awhile to come back up even at level 50. Gets tedious at times.
And a question I've been wondering about that applies here ( I think ).
Does the Iksar/Troll Regen allow them to break the HP regen barrier at all standing or sitting? I would imagine it would make it easier for them to max the regen, but does it allow them to break it is what Im wondering. I ask because it seems their regen is the reason they take negative xp/learning skills (guessing at the trade-off here), but if it doesn't break the barrier then everyone else can get the same regen rate and not have the negative xp/skill rate.
Anyway hope I stayed on topic, first time posting, hope it was constructive. So far I like the med changes, makes a lot less downtime.
Oh and if the melee skills of casters have been increased, if the roll back occurs..........what happens?
A group of friends and I were fighting in Faentharc, in the gemanthians tunnels. Since they flee, they have a tendency to run into the walls and unless you get them rooted/snared or have a pet on them before they get into the wall.....they pretty much get in there and make it so you can't bind wound for a very long time.
And since Im guessing bind wound is setup similarly to this new meditate system, anything that is aggroed and in walls or fleeing.....or being kited/killed slowly by someone who ran over your group with a pull.
It sounds like it could be problematic, and I know it's in testing now....but it also sounds like someone could use this to intentionally cause a lot of problems for you unless the aggro list is changed somehow to reflect cases where the NPC is being actively engaged by another person/group and not your own.
And hopefully people can confirm some of these things as I probably won't have time to setup too many of these scenarios. But in the gemanthian case on bind wound, it took that gemantian from the front section of the cave until we had cleared it almost up to the master to heal and come back out of the wall.
If it works that way with med now, you'd have to zone to fix it.
Possible changes if confirmed that come to mind:
- Make NPCs bleed out and die eventually if they flee for too long.
- Make NPCs regen faster if they haven't been damaged in 60 seconds or some such, but might screw up mezzed hurt npcs.
- Make it so NPCs can't walk through walls when fleeing.
Another thing I think that would make the casters job a little less tedious and follow in line with this med change would be to add in either more group buff spells or lower the recast/mana cost on buffs to accomplish a few things:
- You can get back to medding instead of spending 10+ minutes buffing.
- Sync up buffs easier since LDs occur and throw the timing off often.
I play a shaman/mage combo... and buffing takes a long time on the shaman esp if they want a lot of the agi/dex/sta buff lines since they are single target. And the recast timer on the harnessing of spirit spell is pretty long x6, and other spells added on. Makes buffing take awhile, and maybe that's intended still, dunno. Also summoning has a pretty long recast on spells too. Mod Rod is short, but bandages seems to take awhile to come back up even at level 50. Gets tedious at times.
And a question I've been wondering about that applies here ( I think ).
Does the Iksar/Troll Regen allow them to break the HP regen barrier at all standing or sitting? I would imagine it would make it easier for them to max the regen, but does it allow them to break it is what Im wondering. I ask because it seems their regen is the reason they take negative xp/learning skills (guessing at the trade-off here), but if it doesn't break the barrier then everyone else can get the same regen rate and not have the negative xp/skill rate.
Anyway hope I stayed on topic, first time posting, hope it was constructive. So far I like the med changes, makes a lot less downtime.
Oh and if the melee skills of casters have been increased, if the roll back occurs..........what happens?
Haven't tested these changes yet as I just got home but they sound great, I'm sure they'll require some tweaking of raidmobs and maybe some other encounters as well as some items.
I was just wondering, is there any chance that an item like Sanguine Idol of Stillness will be changed to be both primary and secondary usable? I'm asking because to me it seems that the effect on this item will no longer be that good inbetween fights (when manaregen is already so high) and it using it in fights will prevent me from experiencing the fun with this change as I wont be able to melee anyway. If it could be made usable in secondary slot as well this would help, and I don't think this would be overpowered or would it? In case it is then maybe lower the FT from 10 to say 7?
I was just wondering, is there any chance that an item like Sanguine Idol of Stillness will be changed to be both primary and secondary usable? I'm asking because to me it seems that the effect on this item will no longer be that good inbetween fights (when manaregen is already so high) and it using it in fights will prevent me from experiencing the fun with this change as I wont be able to melee anyway. If it could be made usable in secondary slot as well this would help, and I don't think this would be overpowered or would it? In case it is then maybe lower the FT from 10 to say 7?
ok i used to pay a druid on live i can see the upside to this but...
right now im around lvl 34 what im doing to level since there are very few of us around that level and i cant normaly find a group is medkiteing mobs in zones. Normaly i need the mana regen if i get 1 or 2 resists to my dots. I no longer think this stratagy will work at all if you completly stop mana regen while in combat, this will also hurt healers becuase we use the fight time to gain mana back if its a tough fight we might need that extra 75 - 100 mana for one last heal to keep your guys alive. I dont know how to fix this but i have a fealing this will hurt lower level groups much much more but i will play around with it to see about that.
but other then that i really like this
right now im around lvl 34 what im doing to level since there are very few of us around that level and i cant normaly find a group is medkiteing mobs in zones. Normaly i need the mana regen if i get 1 or 2 resists to my dots. I no longer think this stratagy will work at all if you completly stop mana regen while in combat, this will also hurt healers becuase we use the fight time to gain mana back if its a tough fight we might need that extra 75 - 100 mana for one last heal to keep your guys alive. I dont know how to fix this but i have a fealing this will hurt lower level groups much much more but i will play around with it to see about that.
but other then that i really like this
OK, if I understand this correctly....
Let's say I am medding somewhere and another player runs by me with a mob in tow. That player, for whatever reason, has that mob tied up (alive, and he hasnt zoned) for x minutes. I now cannot meditate any longer until that mob is dead, even if I zone. However, if I have zoned, and that other person zones or dies, *now* I will be able to med. That is, unless the mob has anyone else on it's hatelist when the people on it's list(at the point I got onto it) left.
This scenario would be bad, in my opinion. How about if they remembered us for a couple of minutes OR for as long as they are in combat, whichever is *shortest*?
This is certainly a wonderful/enjoyable addition to SoD -- speaking from a Hybrids point of view, i sure hope that HP regen gets raised or something of the equivilant to alow for more enjoyable soloing for the other side of the spectrum. Bandages can only take you so far 
im against this change because
1. nec/wiz/mag/enc get shafted in EXP groups b/c in a good group theres constant pulling = NO CHANCE TO MED EVER. this just creates downtime for a decent group rather than minimizing any
2. if a healer is LOM the group will basically be screwed now instead of them being able to med up for that critical heal
3. Soloing as a caster, you often rely on being able to med up a little bit more mana, especially when you get an infamous resist spike.
4. any aggro to you from someone else = you cant med, possibly group cant med until the mob has been killed.
why fix what isnt broke maybe do these changed to hybrids, priests but NOT to pure int casters. it just dosent work out. it MAKES downtime and dosent prevent it for them.
1. nec/wiz/mag/enc get shafted in EXP groups b/c in a good group theres constant pulling = NO CHANCE TO MED EVER. this just creates downtime for a decent group rather than minimizing any
2. if a healer is LOM the group will basically be screwed now instead of them being able to med up for that critical heal
3. Soloing as a caster, you often rely on being able to med up a little bit more mana, especially when you get an infamous resist spike.
4. any aggro to you from someone else = you cant med, possibly group cant med until the mob has been killed.
why fix what isnt broke maybe do these changed to hybrids, priests but NOT to pure int casters. it just dosent work out. it MAKES downtime and dosent prevent it for them.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Wiz said:
Wow, this seems like it will be brutal. What about those occasional nightmare scenarios where bad shit happens and the chanter has to sit there and keep mobs mezzed while the group recovers? Also, won't this have nasty side-effect consequences with regards to rezzing? Lastly, does this mean if I flee to zone for whatever reason, then come back in, I'll get my shit ruined by mobs that remember me, or will it just stop my meditate for that time period? Will there be a message notifying me across zones that it's safe to come back in?
I really have to wonder why mezzed mobs count as being in combat. What overpowered tactic is that supposed to correct?
Edit: I would suggest taking a tactic here like with relics. Don't have this mob-memory stuff for non-raid mobs (it's bound to be an absolute nightmare for many, many players) and have mez let you med, then watch it for a bit, and if people seem to be abusing it, then put in the fix. Obviously you'd still want raid mobs to stop clerics from camping out, logging in, medding to full, and engaging for round two, but there's no reason why xp zone trash has to rape unfortunate xp groups.
thizz said:
1) The current meditation rate seems to be about 1% mana per second at just about any level. If you're running low, try not attacking as soon as you see something, k?
2) Useful Hint: Don't pull when the healer is LOM
3) True, but if you go from full to zero without killing something, you're screwed anyway.
4) Oh. Oh my. A valid complain. You scare me, sir. That's one that's been bugging me in theory, if not in practice.
Taedirk said:
1. if your the only offensive caster in a group your gimped because the melee can DPS anyway, imagine a group situation - which often arent cookie cutter groups on SoD were your oom and cant contribute.
2. a healer can be FM at the start of a pull, and be OOM before the mobs are dead.
3. your thinking of optimum conditions. its easy to be strained on mana if you get an add, or a resist spike, or both. maybe you dont want to wait for FM either, i dont know of many necros/wiz/mag who med to 100% before engaging a blue.
thizz said:this has also kind of made necros suck considering i med faster than arch lich ever did now, without losing the hp. no point in using the lich line at all
Same might be said for SHM and downtime. However, I get the feeling SHM will be the best healers in a grind group now...
As for myself, I'm a little concerned about how this new situation fits in for low level raiding. Fights that were previously borderline, I just don't see them as being doable now even if everyone plays slightly better...
another blow to necros is that w/ lich you will lose alot more hp than gain mana
Example:
look at the level 60 spell arch lich http://sod.camongrel.de/id:1379
you lose 65 hp per tick, gain 35 mana
level 59 lifetap is 405 mana for 720 dmg/life. http://sod.camongrel.de/id:1540
it takes about *** 12 *** ticks for arch lich alone to get 405 mana. in that time, youve lost 780 hp from lich alone. and gained nothing
these spells were balanced to use with meditate, as were all necro spells, its a huge nerf to them not to be able to med in combat
Example:
look at the level 60 spell arch lich http://sod.camongrel.de/id:1379
you lose 65 hp per tick, gain 35 mana
level 59 lifetap is 405 mana for 720 dmg/life. http://sod.camongrel.de/id:1540
it takes about *** 12 *** ticks for arch lich alone to get 405 mana. in that time, youve lost 780 hp from lich alone. and gained nothing
these spells were balanced to use with meditate, as were all necro spells, its a huge nerf to them not to be able to med in combat
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
While the lich line does interact with meditate, it's not like you say it is. I imagine that faster mana regen in combat would lead to necros having a surplus of mana in the short out of combat breaks, but they could probably just cast more spells--it's not like they're just barely skirting the line of aggro or anything.
thizz said:
Way to complain without actually testing it out. If you had any idea exactly how ridiculously fast mana comes back now you wouldn't have made this post.
But here is another useful tip. When you're in a group try having your puller and tank set up the engage AWAY from the medders.
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