LIVE TEST - Mana regen/game fun changes

[Manluas]

The point is actually very good. Lich is not a class defining necessity, backstab however....

yes it is.

do you think necros have lifetaps, lifetap dots (lets think why any int caster would need lifetaps in the first place), healing dots, detremential dots (rather than DD's, instant heals, etc --- everything necros do takes TIME for a reason), have extremely high mana costs for each spell, because they are balanced to use the lich line as a luxury? i didn't think so..

Actually Lich is what you make it. The only time I medded IN COMBAT was
a) on raids (LIch always up due to Regenspells)
b) with adds
Situation a) can be solved with Rods (not that big problem on raids, isn't it?).
Situation b) can be solved with FD (this spell really don't cost that much mana).

I (as an Iksar) can easily throw my DoT's on a mob - including LT DoT's and then sit back with ~50% mana left to see how the HP of it will drop pretty fast (not in spikes like DD's but still with ~1k dmg/tick) and send my pet in or not. Lich + med while incombat was pretty nice but not essentially needed.
And just for your info....a Necro do not consist of just DoT's and Lich....play around with it and you might be able to figure it out. The changes might need you to change your tactics and strategys but they do NOT imbalance anything.

However this ist just my opinion and class discussions do NOT belong to this board so this should be my last post according to Necros (that is NOT a promise )


EDIT:

And to the class defining argument: You can find several Lich items out there (I know of two + Mod Rods) that are accesable for any class but I never heard of an item that will gain you Backstab...just to comment on your example.

 

[thizz]

The point is actually very good. Lich is not a class defining necessity, backstab however....

yes it is.

do you think necros have lifetaps, lifetap dots (lets think why any int caster would need lifetaps in the first place), healing dots, detremential dots (rather than DD's, instant heals, etc --- everything necros do takes TIME for a reason), have extremely high mana costs for each spell, because they are balanced to use the lich line as a luxury? i didn't think so..

Actually Lich is what you make it. The only time I medded IN COMBAT was
a) on raids (LIch always up due to Regenspells)
b) with adds
Situation a) can be solved with Rods (not that big problem on raids, isn't it?).
Situation b) can be solved with FD (this spell really don't cost that much mana).

I (as an Iksar) can easily throw my DoT's on a mob - including LT DoT's and then sit back with ~50% mana left to see how the HP of it will drop pretty fast (not in spikes like DD's but still with ~1k dmg/tick) and send my pet in or not. Lich + med while incombat was pretty nice but not essentially needed.
And just for your info....a Necro do not consist of just DoT's and Lich....play around with it and you might be able to figure it out. The changes might need you to change your tactics and strategys but they do NOT imbalance anything.

However this ist just my opinion and class discussions do NOT belong to this board so this should be my last post according to Necros (that is NOT a promise )


EDIT:

And to the class defining argument: You can find several Lich items out there (I know of two + Mod Rods) that are accesable for any class but I never heard of an item that will gain you Backstab...just to comment on your example.

if you still don't think lich is class defining i can't imagine what kind methods you use to do things. mod rods arent lich line, nor meant to be. u can find almost any type of spell effect on an item somewhere, of course you cant find melee disciplines. your basing your argument on that you can still solo spiders?? (im sure a warrior could find something to solo at any level)

imagine you werent soloing a spider, and were in a perfect cookie cutter group minus a caster. with the new changes what exact advantage does a necro have over, say a wizard/mage/etc. now that you can dot 2-3 times a mob and med it back, will your dots tick 3 times as fast? will the mob even be up that long? has efficency increased in this patch even marginally compared to how far ahead the class are now that can now throw 3+ nukes? nope necros have been set back

 

[Liam]

My necro doesn't exactly feel set back, to be honest.

 

[calaran]

I haven't played since the changes got put in, so I won't post how things are, will be, should be, etc.... Reading what Thizz has said, I think there may be some validity to his points... I don't accept the whole thing carte-blanche... I think maybe the Necro advantage has shifted from one focus to another perhaps, and maybe there needs to be some refactoring, but I dunno if they need to be completely redone. I am NOT speaking to the high-end/raid-game, 'cause I have no knowledge of that here.

Necros have always out-mana-regenned everyone at the cost of health. They were able to replenish the health/do damage somewhat inefficiently with taps and their damage was substantial with DoTs but at a goodly cost of mana (since they could out-regen everyone) and were not as strong damage-wise as Wizard nukes. If Necros had the same mana-regen at all times that other classes did, I think it would be agreed upon that they would be underpowered. Thizz is reacting as if this is the case, and several others are reacting as if this is completely dissimilar from the case. With these changes, Necros have (basically) the same out of combat/meditation regen as other classes, but whereas other classes got a somewhat severe nerf to their ability to regen in combat, the Necro did not. Someone stated earlier that now Shaman are potentially the best healers in exp groups because they can regen mana better in combat than any other healer; in the same way, is it possible that Necros are now much more valuable DPS in chain-pull exp groups? I wonder what would happen, even at the high level, if you had a tank, a couple shaman for healing, and filled the rest of the group with necros. The tank doesn't need mana so doesn't need to stop, the shaman can canni, the necros can lich.. if you could chain-pull with that group before, you can probably still do it. While Necros have lost their out-of-combat-regen advantage, they have gotten an even stronger in-combat-regen advantage (note: I'm not saying the spell has gotten stronger, just the gap between them and other players has gotten larger).

I really don't think the system is PERFECT by any means, I just think it's a step in a good direction... I will likely be the only person to state this in this exact way, but I think the trivialization of the between-combat regen time is a GREAT thing. The increased out-of-combat-regen-rate does not trivialize any encounters (unless you bind-zerg *gag*) it just decreases the downtime between combats and if you think that will result in people not having to use as much skill or some such... :roll:

 

[Crayak]

As a necro I DO feel setback but I am not against the change 100%. Personally I like the change since it helps so many classes but I am afraid that it will change the gameplay by alot. People will rethink the way they play and even rethink their two boxers.

Another thing I'm afraid of is the effect on FT items and any other mana regen. I know many will say that you need FT still to help med while in combat and add a little bit mroe mana while medding but lets really look at what will really happen. I doubt people will throw the same amount of pp's away for a few mana regens while in combat when you could easily gain much more out of combat. Furthermore, people will invest more into +mana equip and +int since mana regen is obviously not a problem.

Secondly it may actually benefit necros as our class being the only one able to med thru long pulls with lich and all but it could also be detrimental since necros spells are mainly time based which would produce longer time required to kill a mob. This would result in more time killing and less medding compared to a, for example, mage less tiem killing less time medding. So who would choose a necro in a group other then the in-combat medding? and maybe a twinge of CC

Basically I don't really mind the change but i do think it is detrimental to necros. Only reason I'm not all out nautze against it is because of west freeport of course. If us necros didnt have that... well lets just not try to imagine that.

I've read some of the posts and seen some responses to people who see the change negative and well... I think they are just like "OMG This change is awesome for almost all the classes! Even though it maybe crap for very few classes I'm gonna try to come up with bad reasons why it would be beneficial! This kid is complaining, well guess what, tough shit, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." I could go on but then it would make me seem more of a ass it already is showing.

Anyways thats what I've been seeing so please dont get all like "OMG this guy is a dumass" if you can't really see it from my point of view.

 

[Manluas]

While Necros have lost their out-of-combat-regen advantage, they have gotten an even stronger in-combat-regen advantage (note: I'm not saying the spell has gotten stronger, just the gap between them and other players has gotten larger).

Thank you for finding words for what I wanted to say but wasn't exactly able to (may it be due to not being native or whatever).

 

[calaran]

I know things were changed for the Necro in this game versus that other game, some spells added, removed, effects modified, etc... This was done to all classes, but I have on thing specifically in mind for the Necro... I don't want to turn them totally into bots, but perhaps this change could be seen as a REALLY good reason (not) to give twitch back to Necros? The '(not)' is there because maybe that would completely ruin some of what is being sought after here... but Necros could perhaps regain the slight hit to utility if there were another facet of the class that would cause groups to want them... Again, I'm not saying Necros are broken or are in horrible need of repair, but when I first read about these changes, the first thing I thought was "my empire for twitch". Maybe a limited twitch... like a large amount of mana given, but a long reuse timer to prevent a Necro from twitching his mana away to a Cleric every time he has enough to give the Cleric a chance to heal once... Make it a spell that could/would save the day no more than once in a fight... Maybe the DPSers had an unlucky string of resists and the mob is at 20%, cleric is OOM, Tank is losing hps, Necro dumps his mana to the Cleric one time for a heal, or to a wizzy for 2 more quick nukes to try to finish it off, etc... Gives another strategic angle to playing a Necro perhaps. Maybe with a large reuse timer, or a huge casting time, you could make it work as a 1-time savior. If done right, Necros wouldn't be using it to constantly fuel a Cleric through a 30-minute engage... just like a Cleric uses Divine Aura to escape certain death but would never consider using it to tank a full encounter...

I dunno, maybe it would be too overpowering in light of these changes, but I just thought it may be something worth revisiting now.