LIVE TEST - Mana regen/game fun changes

[Himurra]

Also I just recently got into a position where I get an add right after I finish killing something...
Since Im already low on mana from the first kill, this absolutely annihilates any hope I have of
winning, since normall I could let my pet tank while I med for that lifesaving DD or gate. This way
all I can do is run.. while it kills my pet (which is already half life or lower) then most probably reaches
me before I get to the zone.. then I die.. cant med for mez , root, gate.. only run..

 

[Zalman]

Im against, mainly because Im an enchanter and it makes me slighty less usefull T.T.
Also what will this do to bards swarm kiting? (assuming they still can, I dont have much
info on bards in SOD yet) This kind of makes me want to create a sorc or magician so I
can just spam DD spells on everything. Plus It also makes it that much similar to WoW,
which Im not very excited about because I still like EQ over WoW anyday, so any changes
similar to WoW doesnt make me too excited..

Yes because being able to give people mana regen IN COMBAT makes you worthless now because people can't regen mana quickly in combat without you or a bard.

What?

Seriously, this complaint doesn't make much sense.

If you enjoy sitting on your ass for five minutes after a tough fight before it's safe to pull again, that's fine. Let the rest of us who want to have fun have fun.

 

[Zalman]

Also I just recently got into a position where I get an add right after I finish killing something...
Since Im already low on mana from the first kill, this absolutely annihilates any hope I have of
winning, since normall I could let my pet tank while I med for that lifesaving DD or gate. This way
all I can do is run.. while it kills my pet (which is already half life or lower) then most probably reaches
me before I get to the zone.. then I die.. cant med for mez , root, gate.. only run..

If you have to use every last drop of mana to kill something you shouldn't be killing that thing.

(Because the majority of the time, it's more efficient to kill things that don't take all of your mana.)

 

[DarkUnknownOne]

As a Beastlord, this change rocks. Means that I don't wait 10+ minutes to regen my mana so I can cast buffs/heals/DD/DoT's in combat, because I never got a chance to sit for 5+ minutes with the way groups work. Now I can sit for even 20 seconds and have a ton of mana. I think that no matter what the nay-sayers say, this change will end up working for the better, especially once the nay-sayers try doing what they are saying is impossible/not doable/etc.

 

[Shoken Ryutatsu]

I guess it's time to dust off the ol' Cold Iron War Hammmer. ^.^

 

[Himurra]

Shrug, I tend to resist change because of EQLive.
And I'm biased against hardcore mana regen/ health
regen out of combat because thats what EQ2 did, and I
dispise EQ2.

So, think this might make casters want to group less?
I guess I probably solo more when mana regens so quickly
after combat.

 

[Dynak]

Depending on the area your fighting in you can still manage chain pulls if you have 2 healers in group, cleric and druid for example. Last night I could sit far enough back from group to not get aggro and continue to med. As soon as I stood up and cast on anyone it would get me on the hate list and the regen would stop. It seems you can still effectively swap healers in and out by keeping one set out of aggro/bard song range until they are ready to come in and patch or take over healing. Again, I havent tried this - just some thoughts.

 

[raqziel]

I'm open to this change. It is not like Wiz is trying to hurt his player base by this.

 

[Duma]

Shrug, I tend to resist change because of EQLive.
And I'm biased against hardcore mana regen/ health
regen out of combat because thats what EQ2 did, and I
dispise EQ2.

So, think this might make casters want to group less?
I guess I probably solo more when mana regens so quickly
after combat.

Soloing with or without a Dual Client will NEVER be as efficient and profitable exp wise as with a group.

 

[excuseme]

I'm open to this change. It is not like Wiz is trying to hurt his player base by this.

It's not Wiz I think is going to hurt us. I'm worried about being somewhere, minding my own business, and then getting on a mob's hate list thanks to the actions of some *other* player not in my group. My ability to med is now removed until that mob is dealt with, and under some circumstances, zoning won't even help me! Also, what if I heal/buff someone in passing, only to later discover that I can't med because they had hate when I did it? I've got to wait, now.

In general, because my caster is a Beastlord, I could probably adopt my playing style to accomodate for the changes easily enough. But I'm hoping the mechanics/specifics of the passive hatelist thing blocking meditate can be looked at and tweaked to prevent what will be a VERY frustrating (albeit hopefully uncommon) scenario. Otherwise, the end result is that what has been created is another way someone, either deliberately or otherwise, can negatively impact someone else's playing experience. At the very least, what about looking at making it so that if someone runs by me with a mob that is green to me, and I'm sitting, I won't get added to it's hatelist? Heck, for that matter, I think the whole "green mob attacks me first" thing could be looked at and improved upon from a realistic *and* gameplay perspective. But I guess that stuff would go in a different thread.

 

[gtoo]

ehhh i dont know about saying that it NO WAY nerfs healing on raids, i can think of times when killing warden of torment 1-2 CLR would go OOM with about 10-15% left med up and get off 1 or 2 more CH's while the larger mana pools CLR's went on with the chain. especially with a mob like that 1-2 CH's can make or break the raid. It might be a small nerf to healing on raids but its still there

If your chain is going oom with 10-15% left, maybe you are not meant to be able to beat that encounter yet. Kill stuff you are able to kill, gear up your healers, gear up your dps, and the next time you try it they wont run out of mana. This is pretty much the core concept behind raiding.

 

[Taffimai]

Maiandra and I have played a few of our characters and came to the following:

Cleric (level 24)
Grouping: Habba-habba! No more 'get back on your butt' attitude I can finally use my big whocketystick the way I want to. And if people think I'm gonna refrain from using my virtually no-mana yaulp, they can talk to the stick >
Solo: Basically, if a mob turns out slightly harder than suspected, I'll either die or cause a train. No rooting it to back off and bind wound, no rooting it to med for a heal, just rooting it to get a head start when running to the guards/zone. The lower downtime medding is nice, but I'm not sure it doesn't balance out with the time I spend running/paying off an xp debt. Biggest advantage: faster medding decreases the chance of something popping on top of me without mana.

Enchanter (level 24)
Grouping: Mwuhahahaha! Everybody will now need us (and bards) even more than before. If at the end of a pull there is an add that the group can't take (low hp/mana), *we* can charm the mob, making it not count as an npc, allowing the group to med. And it is awesome to be able to use my entire array of spells, stuns, buffs, nukes, without having to think of it as not mana efficient. It takes only half a minute to get all that mana back before the next pull, so let's blow it!
Solo: A bit overpowered when I did because of the mez. Once that's fixed I guess it'll be the same for me as for the cleric, except that I could still try to charm and med up instead of having to run immediately.

Necromancer (level 30)
Grouping: Well I never much cared for grouping. I need stuff that stays alive for a bit so I can effectively leech from it, and in a group everything is either mezzed or dead before my spell has been worth the mana it cost. For the same reason, dotting while grouped is pointless. However, with downtime for medding being both short and expected, I'll not feel bad about using my debuffs on every single mob we see, and maybe even my nukes. Just hope the debuffs stack with those of other classes, I've never bothered to try that out.
Solo: Oh, no, no. Please don't do this to us :sadf: My downtime has effectively doubled, and my hitpoint-to-mana spells are therefore worthless, because they just get me lower on hitpoints. The mana gained during fights isn't worth it compared to just sitting afterwards without it. In fact, I discovered that I'm most efficient (kills/time) by sending in the pet and occasionally healing it while not wasting mana on anything else... I'm my pet's cleric bot! :lol:

Paladin/Shadowknight (level 17)
Grouping & Solo: We never got to med during fights anyway, so as far as we're concerned: Yay!

Druid (level 42)
Grouping: Haven't had a chance yet. I'm a little concerned that during longer fights the tank will now expect me to keep every bit of mana for healing, while I like to think of myself as more of a utility caster. And if I'm expected to whack, could my Starfall staff get a better damage/delay than 10/45? Otherwise, I'm still better off staying our of reach.
Solo: My armor class doesn't allow for tanking, so running oom now means I have to give up. At least I have the advantage of always being SoWed, so I don't have to rely on a root to outrun the mob.

Rogue (any level, really)
I don't see why everybody complains about being less able to solo. I don't get to bandage, you don't get to med. Sounds fair to me.

Conclusion:
For most group layouts, this seems rather nice. For pure caster classes it might be preferable to have the old system while soloing. Wizards, I'm sure, won't agree.

 

[gtoo]

No offense captain, but the healing changes don't affect the large manapool characters as much as the lower ones. For you and Forsaken, most fights end with healers and Clerics never reaching oom once. Therefore, the changes do not affect you.

Not true. Don't make assumptions about what you have no idea.

For us with fewer characters and less equipment, substitution of healing means we rotate people in and out of the CH chain, giving them time to med longer periods without constantly being in the CH chain until they are oom.

I am fairly certain that this is against the rules, and shouldnt work according to how CH works on this server. If it does, it is most likely a bug.

We do the same with padders, because being able to take turns padding and having others med fully without having to stand up to pad = optimal efficiency. We can essentially outperform other healing teams because of this efficiency.

Why not have all of your padders going, but padding a little less so that they don't blow through their mana. Its the same result.

Please don't say that we can't kill higher mobs or accomplish more because our manapools overall are "the same." This efficiency we used capitalizes on in-combat regen and rewards SKILL with benefits.

This doesn't make sense. I honestly can't figure out what you are trying to say here.

You can no longer "constantly" kill DB anymore because you can no longer chain pull. Meditating is halted as soon as a member of your group engages and you are in the mob's range. You can chain-pull DBs until you are oom, then med to full, but this is now not that much better than unleashing MASSIVE DPS on a one mob after another, then medding to full in-between the pulls. Try it out and compare. Before patch, chain-pulling was by far the best exp. Now, they are about the same.

Have you even tried this? What mobs are you talking about? It sounds like you are just pulling this out of your ass too. Find me proof that zerging down level 60+ mobs and then medding and repeating is more xp-efficient than constantly pulling mid 50's mobs.

 

[JayelleNephilim]

For us with fewer characters and less equipment, substitution of healing means we rotate people in and out of the CH chain, giving them time to med longer periods without constantly being in the CH chain until they are oom.

I am fairly certain that this is against the rules, and shouldnt work according to how CH works on this server. If it does, it is most likely a bug.

If I am understanding the "strategy" correctly ... it IS against the server rules.

 

[Minerios]

Wait, I'm lost... Can someone explain to this SoD newbie what is against the rule about CH chains (either here or through PMs)? I can't make head or tail of this argument.

 

[Wiz]

APPENDIX 2:

- Mobs will no longer remember you (when you log or zone) if you only had promixity aggro.
- Promixity aggro no longer counts as "in combat".

 

[Babs]

APPENDIX 2:

- Mobs will no longer remember you (when you log or zone) if you only had promixity aggro.
- Promixity aggro no longer counts as "in combat".

Woohoo...does this mean that we can bind wounds now when someone pulls past us?

 

[Noktar]

Wizards always where the masters in burst dps and as far as i know rogues always where the masters in lasting dps like in group situation with constant to almost constant pulls. How does this change effect this as a wizzard can easily med up before he should start nuking on mobs anyway?

 

[SprintFun]

For us with fewer characters and less equipment, substitution of healing means we rotate people in and out of the CH chain, giving them time to med longer periods without constantly being in the CH chain until they are oom.

I am fairly certain that this is against the rules, and shouldnt work according to how CH works on this server. If it does, it is most likely a bug.

If I am understanding the "strategy" correctly ... it IS against the server rules.

Aw damn there goes our strats ;(

New changes sound good - too bad won't really be able to test it tonight...

 

[Minerios]

Wizards always where the masters in burst dps and as far as i know rogues always where the masters in lasting dps like in group situation with constant to almost constant pulls. How does this change effect this as a wizzard can easily med up before he should start nuking on mobs anyway?

Unless I'm mistaken (never played a Wizzie), the reason Wizards concentrate on burst damage is that sustained nuking means a very dead Wizard, not merely a OOM Wizard. I don't think the current changes will change things on this regard, Wizards will still have to mind their damage output. Rogues won't be phased out by nukers. Unless I misunderstood your question?