Jyre

Yusuke

Dalayan Adventurer
The 4.3 robe was recently adjusted to bring in line with item progression throughout the tiers. A change that needed to be made years ago but at least it has happened. The trend for SoD history has for the most part been this way. New item gets introduced, it feels exceptionally powerful, the players voice their opinions to the staff, the staff is well aware of it's increased power, only a few have it so it stays that way for years, new content needs to be released and those powerful items need to be brought in line, players whine, players get over it, new items take place to replace the old powerful ones or some don't get the stick.

I think Jyre is another item that needs to be looked in to. It is not in line with any other gear of its era. It also has a very sporadic drop rate, though, I don't think that is the item's fault.
 
Doesnt Jyre essentially become a death save with significant implications as far as character power with alignment? I understand that its a powerful item, but the trend of nerfing items to make them more in line with current tiers is more of a detriment if the fights are scaled to characters with those items in the first place. These are items that players have taken the time to loot, quest, etc, and the effects of such keep players interested in going back and farming content. As well, the majority of these are not in the hands of players that have not been killing this content for a significant portion of time.

What i glean from this is that Jyre should have its drop rate increased and be built into progression for tanks and instead of changing progression to +10 hp/mana per piece of gear, a lame clicky, +1 skill, or +1 focus effect level per piece of gear, per tier. Your suggestion of nerfing this item would just lead to the same old stagnation of just slightly higher numbers instead of reasonable increases to character power for pushing harder and more time consuming content.
 
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By dropp rate increase you mean from not dropping at all for 2-3 years to dropp 3 times in 3 months?
 
Jyre is not as powerful as people think. You take a VERY significant hit to character power just to use the item. Your character becomes roughly 4% worse at EVERYTHING. Its also slightly worse mitigation/avoidance than using a shield. If t13 or t14 shields get implemented, that gap will widen even further.

Furthermore, you can't really nerf an item like this without implementing a quest to "purify" your character. People have made very significant and permanent choices to their character involving this item.
 
Just for some numbers.

I parsed some mana usage numbers on grahf going from 15% spec bonus to 20% spec bonus.

5% specialization bonus equalled 0.6 mana conservation.

A knight with mana conservation 8 and a jyre is operating at mana conservation 4.8.

Now apply this to every specialization focus, You can see how this could be bad.

Jyre scales best on a warrior, but hinders their aggro.

It seems to be a consensus that jyre makes SKs worse.

There is some multiplicitive interaction between jyre, old 4.3 robe, and individual tank metrics that changed when robe was nerfed.

It seems as non-jyre defenses increase, jyre's negative impact on your specialization become less noticable, and vise versa.

Meaning, with robe nerf, that corruption is noticable.

I am for increases to drop rate with appropriate scaling.
 
This is a good post. After the 4.3 robe nerf, it made me realize nerfing items like that and replacing them with worse ones is a lot more fun than keeping your awesome one. The 4.3 robe didn’t even display and AC on fomelo yet it was the best for tanks? So stupid.

When it comes to jyre, yeah sure it’s something people kill Rujik 100 times over the course of 3 years, wasting their life away, skipping family and friend events just to get a chance to do this epic quest for a flaming sword, but does that really matter for over all game balance? I mean sure yeah it’s “fun” , but it’s clearly super op and honestly the only way those stupid no life loser loot associates guys are even close to be able to kill stuff like Sharn’ree and farhags.

TLDR, nerf jyre. No one deserves cool and fun items that take immense amount of dedication and time to acquire
 
To elaborate on the specialization bit, it works out to making your character roughly 4% worse in every way. 4% less mitigation, 4% less avoidance, 4% less damage done, 4% less healing done, 4% more mana spent, 4% less likely to land spells. As it stands, the current best non-jyre tank weapons/shields are all roughly spires/outer sanctum tier, with the exception of the new tmap shield and hardmode custo sword which are about 1 tier higher. Making items that follow a reasonable progression path that are better/equivalent to jyre won't be an issue at all, especially considering jyre is already worse defensively than items 2 tiers below it.

You get a once per fight deathsave that brings you to 10% hp after it triggers, which is a lot less powerful than it sounds. The amount of times I've heard someone say "jyre popped, dead" is pretty high, meaning the deathsave effect triggers but you still end up dying - essentially getting no value from it. Theres also a lot of fights where the tank finishes without triggering the deathsave, which also means you get very little value from it.
 
Sounds like it doesn't matter if it gets nerfed or not. The consensus here is it's an awful item. Take it completely out of the game and replace it with something worthwhile imo, like the 4.3 chanter weapon.

(Read into all that sarcasm all you want. For the record, I'm personally totally against nerfs outside of the first few weeks of existence. Trying to duo or tank anything with my monk right now pretty much feels like the game is broken. Totally broken OP item or not, my main character will basically be in a fight to get slightly less nowhere near where it was from now until I give up and quit the game, and that just isn't fun at all.)
 
Sounds like it doesn't matter if it gets nerfed or not. The consensus here is it's an awful item. Take it completely out of the game and replace it with something worthwhile imo, like the 4.3 chanter weapon.

(Read into all that sarcasm all you want. For the record, I'm personally totally against nerfs outside of the first few weeks of existence. Trying to duo or tank anything with my monk right now pretty much feels like the game is broken. Totally broken OP item or not, my main character will basically be in a fight to get slightly less nowhere near where it was from now until I give up and quit the game, and that just isn't fun at all.)
It’s not that noticeable. I was able to tank 2 bloodfires with a t14 cleric chaining big heals on me yesterday
 
Cut out your salty tears over the new form of 4.3 robe. If anything, it is still too strong.
 
Has anyone debated that? Please attempt to talk to us like adults. Your comment is pretty damn unnecessary.
 
Has anyone debated that? Please attempt to talk to us like adults. Your comment is pretty damn unnecessary.
Your comment in brackets was 100% salty tears about the new form of 4.3 robe, so there is that. Also, act like an adult and I'll talk to you like an adult. I promise.
 
Lets not derail the thread and go back to the 4.3 robe. I don't want to loose sight of the real scourge in the game here.
 
I have actually been thinking this over for a long time now, and I think sometime in the future (maybe) there will be a way to get the passive benefits (and detriments) of Jyre without having to hope a really rare item drops. What I mean by this is you could complete the Jyre quest and receive an ammo slot item that did everything the current Jyre does except you can't use the sword part of it. Eventually, and maybe sooner than you might think, using Jyre as a weapon is no longer going to be a thing anyway. Having said that people who went down this route would be able to turn their ammo only item in to a full fledge Jyre if they ever do get the rare quest piece, so that way they cannot lose out on anything.
 
I wanted a conversation to start before adding on to the initial post which I held off on purpose. I anticipated some of these responses would be coming. However, it's shallow to think I am belittling anyone's efforts in acquiring their pixels from this thread. If it's not known I'll make it clear. I am very much against nerfs but its those nerfs that take place years down the line. It's one thing to roll something out and then take some tweaking time to balance it but another to wait for several years before it dawns on you that soandso is broken and needs to be reworked. I understand everything is on a volunteer-basis so we don't need to go down that road if staff thinks they are being targetted, we appreciate all that you do but if someone takes the time to add new content to a game we love then at least stick around long enough to ensure everything is as you intended. For the record, I was expecting the 4.3 robe nerf to take place but I didn't want it happening because to me if an item has existed for a good while then its grace period for being reworked is over and should no longer be touched unless it's broken (broken in the not functioning sense). Especially when new content has been made with this one item in consideration of boss difficulties.

As for the negative consequenes of equipping Jyre, everyone except for Bango (and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt since, if I am not mistaken, he was given the quest piece - didn't drop in the traditional sense - and was not informed of the minus specialization), knew the impact of doing this quest for the item. Some of you have the math figured out as well and claim it makes the character worse off. The item must give you something special for anyone who has it to cling on to it and not want it changed when a single item ruins your character to such an extent. This item is controversial at best. It disrupts future progression by removing your specialization so you are forced to use it. They cannot make more cool/fun weapons for you unless they also do something spectacular like this item. And we all know such item development is not sustainable.

This item, which is very selective on when the quest piece drops, is needed to trigger a tier 13 boss that has a good loot table. I don't know of any other flag that works this way. Kill Warden > get in to Yclist > kill Prime > get in to Spires > Kill Saitha > access to Turruj, it works something like that right? Kill minis in Valor A to get to Valor B etc. Sepulcher to CoD.

I have a feeling Jyre is already on the staff radar and should be if it isn't. The "nerf" will eventually come in some form or shape whether that is to the drop rate, the tier 13 boss triggering from this dumb mechanic, the specialization that is screwed for those who did the quest.

Benefitting from Jyre and then getting a quest that completely purifies the corruption isn't really fair. At best, a quest that purifies for 10% specialization over a course of a long journey that also weakens the Jyre so future progression can get back on track for the characters affected. Just my thoughts, not dictating what should happen. Also, if it retains it's death save through the nerf and that retains fuction in ammo slot (would it work?) doesn't that still leave the fun factor, get rid of the specialization cons, and give you more options to swap gear.

In any case, a change to this item is warranted. And it's only going to help those affected by Jyre already.

It looks like Marza posted before I could but going to leave my post unedited.
 
Don't minimize the -4% to everything con of having this weapon/quest done. We fill how many tomes for just 1% so by taking this quest you are nullifying all those tomes ALL OF THEM,if you have 1-4 done then do this quest, or get them done after, all that is doing is bringing you up to baseline. for the minimal gain that jyre has in the face of that. I would argue that if i geared up a tank i might not even take this quest. You are losing 4% avoidance, mitigation,resists, hit rate, hit strength, if your a knight spell resists. For what? A 10% death save that 9 times outa 10 means nothing, a decent 100% proc for a little self healing and dps(esp after the repo proc nerf), a slight increase in dps from the weapon itself, the biggest benefit to this weapon is looking cool imo

Edit: I suppose the con of -4% everything assumes you had 20% or could attain 20% spec with the adjustments left out there, if you screwed yourself on that i guess its not as big a con, but for the sake of argument, lets say the type of people who loot and do the quest for jyre are the type of people to have 20% spec.
 
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I like Marza's idea of rolling the deathsave into a neat little ammo item that other classes can get if they are on tier. I would like the item to stay as is for those who have looted it and done the quest, but if it becoming accessable to all it would be good to include a reversion type quest as this item will become obsolete in the near future.

Why Jyre is "really good" is that it has a 100% deathsave. As we all know there are some times that our tanks just get puched right in the teeth or someone misses a heal etc. This is just a sad fact of the game, and there is very little room for error; Jyre is very helpful to this, as you can come back from a "death" realtively easily. I would also say that it is really good for pushing new content because it allows you to soak a death mechanic once per fight if you make a mistake. Now that all fights t13+ essentially include one of these... Jyre is great.

I would like to see more active effects rolled into tanks rather than passive deathsaves etc to make them more intuitive and active when tanking.
 
It's a guaranteed death safe, but it's only to 10% HP and there's been countless times as tevinter mentioned that you hear 'Jyre proc'd...dead', especially on harder content where you don't get a lot of leeway in keeping tanks alive. This is slightly better depending on the fight due to the (kind of gross) interaction DS and the jyre explosion has with bloodlust but that's a whole different topic.

I support Marza's idea but also kind of wonder how many people here have actually had much time spent with a Jyre tank past doing trivial/lower tier content. I would be shocked if you couldn't make better tanking/defensive setups than a Jyre (especially on knights that can get away with using shields easier than a warrior) soon enough and I think if you introduced the ammo proc quest you'd find a lot of people doing it and having buyer's remorse in a month or so. It's an item with a decent (and for now permanent) cost to it.
 
I like Marza's idea of rolling the deathsave into a neat little ammo item that other classes can get if they are on tier. I would like the item to stay as is for those who have looted it and done the quest, but if it becoming accessable to all it would be good to include a reversion type quest as this item will become obsolete in the near future.

Why Jyre is "really good" is that it has a 100% deathsave. As we all know there are some times that our tanks just get puched right in the teeth or someone misses a heal etc. This is just a sad fact of the game, and there is very little room for error; Jyre is very helpful to this, as you can come back from a "death" realtively easily. I would also say that it is really good for pushing new content because it allows you to soak a death mechanic once per fight if you make a mistake. Now that all fights t13+ essentially include one of these... Jyre is great.

I would like to see more active effects rolled into tanks rather than passive deathsaves etc to make them more intuitive and active when tanking.
There will never be a way to reverse the side effects of Jyre as long as it remains my decision. At this point anyone finishing the quest should know full well what they are investing in. Also I have a feeling some of you do not understand that Jyre as it functions now provides all of the benefits that it would as a weapon when it is equipped in the ammo slot, this includes the deathsave. If this is not the case then it should, but I am pretty sure it is. Because of this fact a majority of the reasons for having Jyre will never become obsolete.

The fact that there is back and forth on whether it is worth getting is kind of the point... it isn't supposed to be inherently stronger than NOT having it, that has always been the case. Having said that I think some people are undervaluing the power of some of the non weapon benefits of having a Jyre right now.
 
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