This sounds a lot like some other game, World of.... Anyways I think it would be more appropriate to reduce hots by 1 tick and add that tick's heal as a direct heal.
Input on new Druid heals
- Thread starter metvayne1
- Start date
This sounds a lot like some other game, World of.... Anyways I think it would be more appropriate to reduce hots by 1 tick and add that tick's heal as a direct heal.
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
Really shamans are fine and you are just posting drivel.
quote:
"shut up"
Thank you for your constructive input.
quote:
"Explain how this is balanced"
Yeah,I also would like to know how it is balanced when the level 63 Druid single target heal
heals for more than the Shammy relic version.
quote:
"Really shamans are fine and you are just posting drivel"
I didnt bring up Shamans but calling Druids "compliment" healers to Shammies is ridiclous.
"shut up"
Thank you for your constructive input.
quote:
"Explain how this is balanced"
Yeah,I also would like to know how it is balanced when the level 63 Druid single target heal
heals for more than the Shammy relic version.
quote:
"Really shamans are fine and you are just posting drivel"
I didnt bring up Shamans but calling Druids "compliment" healers to Shammies is ridiclous.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
If you want the abrupt version of why the level 63 druid spell heals for more than shaman relic heal its because
1) You have near infinite mana
2) You mitigate obscene amounts of damage with slow
Thats my point,group heals,complete heals,ports,damage shields,track made easily up for
slow/canni,giving Druids HoTs already crossed the line,nonetheless now people are even asking
for more.
Also with ports they already had a critical ability,not everyone has gate clickies to all around the
world.Using mules to move a raid from target to target is terribly inefficient as is doing t-maps
without porters.
Then there is the combination of ports/track - no other class can check out if possible targets
are up that fast.
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
Slow is Better than any single heal in the game, even gheals, complete heals you name it. Archaic slow is hands down the strongest spell in the game.
Also anyone who isn't a mongoloid parks a track bot in the zone, not bounces from zone to zone to track.
Shamans are fine.
Rorne
The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
You are using port utility as a crux of your argument which is inane and you are crapping all over the point of this thread which is for new druid heals feedback. It's not new druid heals vs shaman feedback. I think you can see why you may want to exit this thread unless you can post constructively about the topic at hand. You can always make your own druid vs shaman thread if you feel it necessary.
jew_nose_it
Dalayan Master
See, I was being nice when I told you to shut up!
Slow is situational and only needed on raid targets,in xp groups its contra productive making
mobs not taking damage by damage shields(!).
We are not talking about using mules for anything,this is true for other classes also and another
topic.
I didnt say Shamans are not fine and I can live with their limitations,only thing is Druids seem
to have no limitations at all,next they get backstab.
We are talking about making an already overpowered class making even more overpowered.
http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showpost.php?p=208724&postcount=1
Read this if you haven't. I can understand how someone with a limited scope on druids would view them as incredible. This is true, in the sub 65 to low tier raiding game, they are very instrumental. Once you get to 6 man content and higher tier raids, these amenities are mitigated by the use of raid planar ports, gate necks, and bots. Quite frankly the 95% of the server that is not a druid gets by just fine scouting zones, buffing ds, and any perk you try to associate with druids. Now where the hammer falls is how useful are druids in an encounter, where everyone is working together to achieve the same goal. This is where balance of dps/healing comes into play. Shaman debuffs, their mana recovery, are incredible. On a single target a shaman actually heals better due to the faster cast time and the lack of a constraint on mana. Single target heals deliver instant recovery. While less efficient this does not pose a problem, see: infinite mana. Their dps is mostly in the form of DoTs, which not only are more efficient, produce less aggro, but ALLOW THEM TO DO OTHER THINGS WHILE doing this dps. The same is for clerics, but the bulk of their dps costs 0 mana. Do you see what I am getting at? My linked post gives more detail on priest comparison.
Read this if you haven't. I can understand how someone with a limited scope on druids would view them as incredible. This is true, in the sub 65 to low tier raiding game, they are very instrumental. Once you get to 6 man content and higher tier raids, these amenities are mitigated by the use of raid planar ports, gate necks, and bots. Quite frankly the 95% of the server that is not a druid gets by just fine scouting zones, buffing ds, and any perk you try to associate with druids. Now where the hammer falls is how useful are druids in an encounter, where everyone is working together to achieve the same goal. This is where balance of dps/healing comes into play. Shaman debuffs, their mana recovery, are incredible. On a single target a shaman actually heals better due to the faster cast time and the lack of a constraint on mana. Single target heals deliver instant recovery. While less efficient this does not pose a problem, see: infinite mana. Their dps is mostly in the form of DoTs, which not only are more efficient, produce less aggro, but ALLOW THEM TO DO OTHER THINGS WHILE doing this dps. The same is for clerics, but the bulk of their dps costs 0 mana. Do you see what I am getting at? My linked post gives more detail on priest comparison.
Slow is situational and only needed on raid targets,in xp groups its contra productive making
mobs not taking damage by damage shields(!).
We are not talking about using mules for anything,this is true for other classes also and another
topic.
I didnt say Shamans are not fine and I can live with their limitations,only thing is Druids seem
to have no limitations at all,next they get backstab.
We are talking about making an already overpowered class making even more overpowered.
You are being senseless, and again speak with limited scope. Slow is useless in the lower end because mobs don't deal much dps. But when you 55% slow a mob that deals 1500 dps, that is 825 dps being mitigated. When you slow a mob that does say 100 dps like in elds, that's 55 dmg mitigated. In the raid game slow is the single most important mechanic. Whether a mob is slowed will make or break an encounter.
You say druids are overpowered. Like i said, in the earlier game they may seem so, but I would like you to demonstrate how they really offer anything special to a 6 man group in the function they are intended for (mostly healing)
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
Do you seriously not understand that there comes a point in the game where even experience mobs have enough dps and enough hp to warrant the minor hit to damage shield dps (which becomes trivial very fast outside of mass pulling hhk/ec/etc)
Every post you have made has so far just proven that you do not understand what you are talking about or are a really devoted troll.
THIS LINK
as far as i am concerned the above link is damn near the most important thread everyone who plays this game should read. want to know and understand your class? click and be learned.
as far as the topic goes, i have been healing with my buddies druid (nefra) and am perfectly happy with the changes. i have noticed a nice increase in mana efficiency and feel that people really need more time to just get the timing of the hots down. yeah, i have to watch my text a bit more but it really pays off as long as i pay good attention to my text. note: it has become more difficult to heal efficently while i am drunk.
that being said, imo i don't feel any change to cast times or raw healing ability to revitalize, chloroshock, relic, or ancient spells are needed. i have no experience with the group hot so i can not comment on that yet. if anything, reducing the hots by one tick and having them start with a straight shot of raw healing power might be worth testing out.
Nuvian
as far as i am concerned the above link is damn near the most important thread everyone who plays this game should read. want to know and understand your class? click and be learned.
as far as the topic goes, i have been healing with my buddies druid (nefra) and am perfectly happy with the changes. i have noticed a nice increase in mana efficiency and feel that people really need more time to just get the timing of the hots down. yeah, i have to watch my text a bit more but it really pays off as long as i pay good attention to my text. note: it has become more difficult to heal efficently while i am drunk.
that being said, imo i don't feel any change to cast times or raw healing ability to revitalize, chloroshock, relic, or ancient spells are needed. i have no experience with the group hot so i can not comment on that yet. if anything, reducing the hots by one tick and having them start with a straight shot of raw healing power might be worth testing out.
Nuvian
Just to clarify,I am not biased against Druids or any other class,would have the same
discussion if they give backstab to Rangers or fd to Pallies.My point is I want very distinct
classes with clearly defined roles and giving class defining abilities like HoTs and (earlier)
group heals to Druids (or other classes) makes the game not better.
quote:
"I can understand how someone with a limited scope on druids would view them as incredible"
I played a Druid main on live when their best heal at 55 was superior Healing and I boxxed
one in TSS(level 75) era.
quote:
"Once you get to 6 man content and higher tier raids, these amenities are mitigated by the use of raid planar ports, gate necks, and bots"
I already answered these points.
quote:
"On a single target a shaman actually heals better due to the faster cast time and the lack of a constraint on mana"
True,the trade off was they have no group heal,now whats the trade off for Druid HoTs?
quote:
"Their dps is mostly in the form of DoTs, which not only are more efficient, produce less aggro, but ALLOW THEM TO DO OTHER THINGS WHILE doing this dps"
True,after the Shammy is done malo'ing,slowing,crippling,casting dots on a mob he can
do other things,but most likely the mob is already dead then.
Dps AND Malo/slow certainly produces more hate than just a nuke.
quote:
"The same is for clerics, but the bulk of their dps costs 0 mana"
I still wait to see a Cleric actually meleeing,every single Cleric I know or watched sits down
after casting a spell for the almost negligible mana regen this provides.
quote:
"But when you 55% slow a mob that deals 1500 dps"
Yeah,thats what most players fight,mobs dealing 1500 dps.
quote:
"In the raid game slow is the single most important mechanic. Whether a mob is slowed will make or break an encounter."
First you have to get to the mob,with my T1-4 guild we are hopping all around the world on
raid days for targets.
quote:
"You say druids are overpowered. Like i said, in the earlier game they may seem so"
See,thats your problem,I bet the vast majority of players is NOT T12 like you.
discussion if they give backstab to Rangers or fd to Pallies.My point is I want very distinct
classes with clearly defined roles and giving class defining abilities like HoTs and (earlier)
group heals to Druids (or other classes) makes the game not better.
quote:
"I can understand how someone with a limited scope on druids would view them as incredible"
I played a Druid main on live when their best heal at 55 was superior Healing and I boxxed
one in TSS(level 75) era.
quote:
"Once you get to 6 man content and higher tier raids, these amenities are mitigated by the use of raid planar ports, gate necks, and bots"
I already answered these points.
quote:
"On a single target a shaman actually heals better due to the faster cast time and the lack of a constraint on mana"
True,the trade off was they have no group heal,now whats the trade off for Druid HoTs?
quote:
"Their dps is mostly in the form of DoTs, which not only are more efficient, produce less aggro, but ALLOW THEM TO DO OTHER THINGS WHILE doing this dps"
True,after the Shammy is done malo'ing,slowing,crippling,casting dots on a mob he can
do other things,but most likely the mob is already dead then.
Dps AND Malo/slow certainly produces more hate than just a nuke.
quote:
"The same is for clerics, but the bulk of their dps costs 0 mana"
I still wait to see a Cleric actually meleeing,every single Cleric I know or watched sits down
after casting a spell for the almost negligible mana regen this provides.
quote:
"But when you 55% slow a mob that deals 1500 dps"
Yeah,thats what most players fight,mobs dealing 1500 dps.
quote:
"In the raid game slow is the single most important mechanic. Whether a mob is slowed will make or break an encounter."
First you have to get to the mob,with my T1-4 guild we are hopping all around the world on
raid days for targets.
quote:
"You say druids are overpowered. Like i said, in the earlier game they may seem so"
See,thats your problem,I bet the vast majority of players is NOT T12 like you.
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
Just to clarify,I am not biased against Druids or any other class,would have the same
discussion if they give backstab to Rangers or fd to Pallies.My point is I want very distinct
classes with clearly defined roles and giving class defining abilities like HoTs and (earlier)
group heals to Druids (or other classes) makes the game not better.
quote:
"I can understand how someone with a limited scope on druids would view them as incredible"
I played a Druid main on live when their best heal at 55 was superior Healing and I boxxed
one in TSS(level 75) era.
quote:
"Once you get to 6 man content and higher tier raids, these amenities are mitigated by the use of raid planar ports, gate necks, and bots"
I already answered these points.
quote:
"On a single target a shaman actually heals better due to the faster cast time and the lack of a constraint on mana"
True,the trade off was they have no group heal,now whats the trade off for Druid HoTs?
quote:
"Their dps is mostly in the form of DoTs, which not only are more efficient, produce less aggro, but ALLOW THEM TO DO OTHER THINGS WHILE doing this dps"
do other things,but most likely the mob is already dead then.
Dps AND Malo/slow certainly produces more hate than just a nuke.
quote:
"The same is for clerics, but the bulk of their dps costs 0 mana"
I still wait to see a Cleric actually meleeing,every single Cleric I know or watched sits down
after casting a spell for the almost negligible mana regen this provides.
quote:
"But when you 55% slow a mob that deals 1500 dps"
Yeah,thats what most players fight,mobs dealing 1500 dps.
quote:
"In the raid game slow is the single most important mechanic. Whether a mob is slowed will make or break an encounter."
First you have to get to the mob,with my T1-4 guild we are hopping all around the world on
raid days for targets.
quote:
"You say druids are overpowered. Like i said, in the earlier game they may seem so"
See,thats your problem,I bet the vast majority of players is NOT T12 like you.
What everything you have posted comes down to is you want the game balanced around tiers 1-4. It's not. It won't be. Because if it was, the high end would be a gigantic unbalanced mess (And it's bad enough half of the time). None of these changes were done for balance at the low tiers because there was nothing wrong with druids for the first 7 tiers of raiding.
Also
In any raid you shouldn't be malo'ing or crippling on a shaman unless you have no mage or enchanter. And I could understand no mage, but not having an enchanter is just silly.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
"The same is for clerics, but the bulk of their dps costs 0 mana"
I still wait to see a Cleric actually meleeing,every single Cleric I know or watched sits down
after casting a spell for the almost negligible mana regen this provides.
quote:
"But when you 55% slow a mob that deals 1500 dps"
Yeah,thats what most players fight,mobs dealing 1500 dps.
quote:
"In the raid game slow is the single most important mechanic. Whether a mob is slowed will make or break an encounter."
First you have to get to the mob,with my T1-4 guild we are hopping all around the world on
raid days for targets.
quote:
"You say druids are overpowered. Like i said, in the earlier game they may seem so"
See,thats your problem,I bet the vast majority of players is NOT T12 like you.
1) Your clerics are simply bad, find a good one to see it in action. Cast yaulp, Cast divine rage and summon ancient hammer and you are basically doing it.
2) This whole you must get to a mob thing is a stupid irrelevant argument, once you legitimately get past tier three you stop doing this outside of certain occasions. Your wizard can translocate basically everywhere you want to go and you have a few zones that actually need travel (Outer prison, Sepulcher, Cod, Storms eye / dhk ,Ikisith world nameds). Not mentioning many of them simply have teleportation clickies to get to them. There are even world zone in points for a number of planes if your really diehard about travel. I do not even know for the life of me how you think teleporting to greenmist is anyway comparable to the effects of slow. From tier 4 to about tier 11 you flat out stop having to travel to raidbosses outside some very very select instances. I do not know what previous arguments you made about the menagerie of teleportation clickies nor do I care to read them. There are a number of experience zones which justify slowing when you are on tier, while they may not have 1500+ dps they definitely outweight the massive(sarcasm) dps of unslowed damage shield. See: Rust factory, Emberflow, Blood Quarry, Citadel, First ruins, The Deepshade, High Keep Basement/Fourth Floor, Catacombs, etc.
3) Druids were(much worse) underpowered garbage alot sooner than tier 12, You have countless posts on the forums from all different levels of druid players on this forum to back this up so far you are just being incredibly stubborn about what you perceive to be the benefits of a druid(In which almost everyone is disagreeing with you HMMM I WONDER WHY). As a fun fact you are crying about the amazing utility of druids and you have yet to mention the best utility they have which is their archaic, I suggest you stop thinking your experience from live matters because it frankly just removes all credibility from any argument you want to make.
I am done replying to you since I am on the verge of breaking a desk and have really nothing constructive to say. Your posts are terrible, incorrect and basically hindering legitimate druid discussion at this point.
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Ulandz you are just proving all my points about you just wanting to balance druids around what you see as fit in your little world, in lower tiers (and live). I am done posting.
Edit: Also I am fully aware how a druid and other classes function at 65 and tiers 1-4, i've been playing this game for a very long time and raided through every tier in the game.
Edit: Also I am fully aware how a druid and other classes function at 65 and tiers 1-4, i've been playing this game for a very long time and raided through every tier in the game.
Rorne
The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
What class models are you balancing this off of exactly? We may be working with the same tools but the raidgame here compared to live is much more nuanced and vastly different. While I don't even consider HoTs class defining I'm curious why you feel that roles are static and unchangeable outside the wisdom and guidance of original EQ. We have all seen the great place live became.
You know this fact doesn't matter at all.
Shaman have a HoT now as well and it's almost like if druids got a hybrid heal that was direct heal+hot the hot portion which takes time to heal would be a trade-off, weird right?
If it's negligible why are you using it as an arguing point? I mean what you have said here is basically clerics would be better off just meleeing but the ones you know are dumb??
How is reducing the dps of a mob that does 600dps any less valuable exactly?Yeah,thats what most players fight,mobs dealing 1500
dps.
I am not tier 12 and I am here to tell you that you are wrong and I wish you had just followed my advice. It's people like you who are basically the scourge of any sort of class discussion and you make it nearly impossible to actually talk about these things on a rational level and you do so while discrediting players to the staff as a whole.
Also
![129059454336027.png[img]quote](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F1dl.us%2F129059454336027.png%5Bimg%5Dquote&hash=819a0c469237aa37df20ebf51d73255b)
How about we stop talking about how ridiculous one poster is in this thread and focus more on suggestions? I still stand by taking 1 tick off HoTs and having it as a direct heal component. This would make the current cast times not so bad and they would need no adjustment.
Either that, or just lower cast times so actual healing doesn't lag behind by the cast time + a few seconds.
Either that, or just lower cast times so actual healing doesn't lag behind by the cast time + a few seconds.
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