I present a challenge [Resist Rates]
- Thread starter Wiz
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Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Upon review, I proffer the following challange:
Adalus, level 65 enchanter, 305 charisma, max focus/mind and Spellcasting Mastery. Vs: "a chasm ghoul", "a cave rat", and if you feel adventurous most other tmap mobs. Use mez without tash or the malise clicker.
I expect you'll find somewhere between a 10% and a 20% resist rate, against these lb or barely-dark blue mobs. I'd suggest adding either a negative resist adjustment on mezzes, or just in general toning down the resistyness of most highly-resistant mobs. Golems are one thing, but for most tmaps and some other zones, having an entire parade of mobs just shrug your spells is disconcerting, especially when there's nothing more you can do to make your spells land. As an aside, philosophically speaking these resist changes have me puzzled. Casters were reasonably balanced before--such a broad change to their effectiveness when they weren't already out of whack gets me spooked.
On the plus side, mobs with average resists seem perfectly fine. They resist a scooch more often than normal but it's nothing to write home about.
I'd also point out that a 1/4 bounce rate, pre-resist change, would be enough for me to stop casting my magic nuke on a particular mob (I'd spend my mana on other things).
edit--hahahaha, speak of the devil. Reading the patch message, apparently many spells are getting negative resist mods; if mezzes are on that list, then feel free to disregard.
Adalus, level 65 enchanter, 305 charisma, max focus/mind and Spellcasting Mastery. Vs: "a chasm ghoul", "a cave rat", and if you feel adventurous most other tmap mobs. Use mez without tash or the malise clicker.
I expect you'll find somewhere between a 10% and a 20% resist rate, against these lb or barely-dark blue mobs. I'd suggest adding either a negative resist adjustment on mezzes, or just in general toning down the resistyness of most highly-resistant mobs. Golems are one thing, but for most tmaps and some other zones, having an entire parade of mobs just shrug your spells is disconcerting, especially when there's nothing more you can do to make your spells land. As an aside, philosophically speaking these resist changes have me puzzled. Casters were reasonably balanced before--such a broad change to their effectiveness when they weren't already out of whack gets me spooked.
On the plus side, mobs with average resists seem perfectly fine. They resist a scooch more often than normal but it's nothing to write home about.
Wiz said:
I'd also point out that a 1/4 bounce rate, pre-resist change, would be enough for me to stop casting my magic nuke on a particular mob (I'd spend my mana on other things).
edit--hahahaha, speak of the devil. Reading the patch message, apparently many spells are getting negative resist mods; if mezzes are on that list, then feel free to disregard.
Allielyn
*Pony*
I was doing some exp'ing in Elds today and noticed quite a few resists. 65 bard vs. Dblue mobs with 149 CHA casting 23 song Selo's Consonant Chain (all entrance mobs, ie not in castle) Results are as follows:
Decadent Elven Guards: Hits: 62 Resists: 26 Resist Rate = 29.54 %
An Elthannar Wizard(s): Hits: 41 Resists: 22 Resist Rate = 34.92%
Gargoyles: Hits: 47 Resists: 30 Resist Rate = 38.96%
Ghasts: Hits: 55 Resists: 30 Resist Rate = 35.29%
To be honest I dont know if that's all considered reasonable or not. I could guess that Gargoyles and Ghasts should be inherently high MR mobs, but the guards and the wizards seem to be as well. It could be my relatively low charisma, or maybe it's just the zone.
Is this what I should expect at this level with my charisma?
Decadent Elven Guards: Hits: 62 Resists: 26 Resist Rate = 29.54 %
An Elthannar Wizard(s): Hits: 41 Resists: 22 Resist Rate = 34.92%
Gargoyles: Hits: 47 Resists: 30 Resist Rate = 38.96%
Ghasts: Hits: 55 Resists: 30 Resist Rate = 35.29%
To be honest I dont know if that's all considered reasonable or not. I could guess that Gargoyles and Ghasts should be inherently high MR mobs, but the guards and the wizards seem to be as well. It could be my relatively low charisma, or maybe it's just the zone.
Is this what I should expect at this level with my charisma?
H
HighLife
Guest
I dont think people need to keep a spread sheet, but before you fucktards come into the thread and say "I GOT RESISTED ON 1 of 4 CASTS THATS 25%", please think of the greater good. I alreaedy noticed Wiz decided to change the resist rates of higher level snares...and I thank you Wiz, but, while i think there can be a rate of resists that is acceptable, i really dont think that missing full nukes (see earlier table) 25 to 42 percent of the time is fair.
Like you pointed out, there need to be resists, but take a 20% resist rate.. ( i have more spread sheets showing 20% resists, I am just to lazy to post em.), and span it out over the entire server and it is ridiculous. On a 40 person raid.. ~8 people every cast will not hit for full damage, and that is too high. When you take a common mob and apply those same rates, it is even worse. Resist rates can change, but they need to go closer to old rates. I mean I play a wizard, and I know full well to use Lures on High Level mobs, but in a group when i cast Relnaks rapid rending 3 times in a row in the course of 5 seconds ( which is possible) and all are resisted...thats about 6000 damage that isnt done. Not to mention that I get a 75% TOTAL resist rate on that mob. So i switch to my cold nukes which are mana effiecient, and resisted once more, and get a partial.
I think there might be a problem in the coding of certain mobs. It seems like I will hit 10 nukes in a row on the same mob, (thank you major concussion,) then on the next mob, which is the same, I'll resist 3, 4, or 5 in a row.
I noticed this while making the spread sheets I have going for a few different mobs. The numbers dip for a while, then I hit 2 or 3 in a row that will, in all honesty, resist over 50% of spells. and it seems to shift the scales.
Hell, make NPC enchanter mobs hit 99% of the time with their Mez's if you want, we can work around it, but making us not be able to hit yes/no spels 20% of the time, or hit nukes that should land for 1900 damage hit for 145, thats just not right. I really hope you dont think im exagerating anything, because i really dont think I am. In the case of individual mobs, i know ther are superman mobs every now and then, but they seem too common. In the case of normal, single-able mobs, I have data to back up my results.
Like you pointed out, there need to be resists, but take a 20% resist rate.. ( i have more spread sheets showing 20% resists, I am just to lazy to post em.), and span it out over the entire server and it is ridiculous. On a 40 person raid.. ~8 people every cast will not hit for full damage, and that is too high. When you take a common mob and apply those same rates, it is even worse. Resist rates can change, but they need to go closer to old rates. I mean I play a wizard, and I know full well to use Lures on High Level mobs, but in a group when i cast Relnaks rapid rending 3 times in a row in the course of 5 seconds ( which is possible) and all are resisted...thats about 6000 damage that isnt done. Not to mention that I get a 75% TOTAL resist rate on that mob. So i switch to my cold nukes which are mana effiecient, and resisted once more, and get a partial.
I think there might be a problem in the coding of certain mobs. It seems like I will hit 10 nukes in a row on the same mob, (thank you major concussion,) then on the next mob, which is the same, I'll resist 3, 4, or 5 in a row.
I noticed this while making the spread sheets I have going for a few different mobs. The numbers dip for a while, then I hit 2 or 3 in a row that will, in all honesty, resist over 50% of spells. and it seems to shift the scales.
Hell, make NPC enchanter mobs hit 99% of the time with their Mez's if you want, we can work around it, but making us not be able to hit yes/no spels 20% of the time, or hit nukes that should land for 1900 damage hit for 145, thats just not right. I really hope you dont think im exagerating anything, because i really dont think I am. In the case of individual mobs, i know ther are superman mobs every now and then, but they seem too common. In the case of normal, single-able mobs, I have data to back up my results.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Little quick post: most mezzes seem to have a negative resist adjust, but Blanket of Apathy doesn't, which is making life on the highly-resistant tmaps kind of annoying. Was that intended, or did it just get missed?
Ok, i know this isnt a huge compilation of data, but either i hit a very unlucky streak or Ice giants are supposed to be more resistant.
Killed 7 giants
level 40 Human Wizard, 135 Charisma
Blue Con Ice Giants
Bonds of Force (level 29 snare)
Total Casts: 27
Landed: 11 = 40%
Partial Resist: 0 = 0%
Complete Resist: 16 = 60%
Immobilize (level 39 root)
Total Casts: 8
Landed: 5 = 62.5%
Partial Resist: 0 = 0%
Complete Resist: 3 = 37.5%
Lightning Shock (level 39 Magic Based DD)
Total Casts: 43
Landed: 21 = 49%
Partial Resist: 7 = 16% (Average hit 247, = 49.7% of max damage)
Complete Resist: 15 = 35%
Hand of Lava (level 39, 5 mana Nuke)
Total Casts: 27
Landed: 20 = 74%
Partial Resist: 3 = 11% ( Average hit 112 = 69% of max damage)
Complete Resist: 4 = 15%
Based on this it would seem that the 5 mana nuke would be the best best, the only issue is it has a 5.5 second cast time during which the giants would always get into melee range with me and get off atleast 2 if not 4-5 hits. Also rooting and 5 mana nuking proved poor aswell do to root being brother most nukes.
My character has about 200ish more mana than the average wizard her level which is an entire nuke with spare, as well as having 4 flowing thought and had KEI on to top it off. Despite this, I would run out of mana if i started a fight with less than 90% of my pool. At this point i resorted to running around till i had the mana to root it and meditate back a small portion. For any poorly geared wizard at this level it would make soloing a blue con ice giant very difficult. Furthermore without any movement buffs if Immobilize or Bonds of Force didnt land I would be toast.
Killed 7 giants
level 40 Human Wizard, 135 Charisma
Blue Con Ice Giants
Bonds of Force (level 29 snare)
Total Casts: 27
Landed: 11 = 40%
Partial Resist: 0 = 0%
Complete Resist: 16 = 60%
Immobilize (level 39 root)
Total Casts: 8
Landed: 5 = 62.5%
Partial Resist: 0 = 0%
Complete Resist: 3 = 37.5%
Lightning Shock (level 39 Magic Based DD)
Total Casts: 43
Landed: 21 = 49%
Partial Resist: 7 = 16% (Average hit 247, = 49.7% of max damage)
Complete Resist: 15 = 35%
Hand of Lava (level 39, 5 mana Nuke)
Total Casts: 27
Landed: 20 = 74%
Partial Resist: 3 = 11% ( Average hit 112 = 69% of max damage)
Complete Resist: 4 = 15%
Based on this it would seem that the 5 mana nuke would be the best best, the only issue is it has a 5.5 second cast time during which the giants would always get into melee range with me and get off atleast 2 if not 4-5 hits. Also rooting and 5 mana nuking proved poor aswell do to root being brother most nukes.
My character has about 200ish more mana than the average wizard her level which is an entire nuke with spare, as well as having 4 flowing thought and had KEI on to top it off. Despite this, I would run out of mana if i started a fight with less than 90% of my pool. At this point i resorted to running around till i had the mana to root it and meditate back a small portion. For any poorly geared wizard at this level it would make soloing a blue con ice giant very difficult. Furthermore without any movement buffs if Immobilize or Bonds of Force didnt land I would be toast.
Level 65 Bst (188 Cha) using Sha's Reprisal (Level 65 Slow) vs Dark Blue mobs in Cmal 1
Note that every mobs (almost) was Mala'ed by a 65 Magician.
Casted: 23
Resists: 12
Landed: 11
More than 50% resists.
I didnt get log on my wiz, but I noticed a lot of resists with Relak's Rapid Rending (On green / low blue mobs in MielB, with 260 Cha) and on spells like Frostflame / Frost Howl / Void Flare.
Note that every mobs (almost) was Mala'ed by a 65 Magician.
Casted: 23
Resists: 12
Landed: 11
More than 50% resists.
I didnt get log on my wiz, but I noticed a lot of resists with Relak's Rapid Rending (On green / low blue mobs in MielB, with 260 Cha) and on spells like Frostflame / Frost Howl / Void Flare.
JayelleNephilim
"Helpy Helper"
Zone: Sorcerer’s Labrynth
CHA: 103
Level/Class: 60 Arch Mage
Kobald Klansman – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements 1x
Wrath of Elements landed landed 9x
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 2x full dd
Moved on to more difficult mobs and for a longer period of time …
Zone: Eldenal’s Mansion
CHA: 103
Level/Class: 60 Arch Mage
A decadent Elven Guard – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements 3x
Wrath of Elements landed 25x
Resisted Seeking Flame of Seukor 3x
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 5x full dd
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 2x for partial dd (206dd of 1289dd and 218 of 1289dd)
Tirleth – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements 1x
Wrath of Elements landed landed 1x
Resisted Seeking Flame of Seukor 1x
Theurgist of Elthannar – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements x1
Wrath of Elements landed x2
\Resisted Seeking Flame of Seukor x1
An Elthannar Wizard – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements 2x
Wrath of Elements landed 8x
Resisted Seeking Flame of Seukor 1x
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 1x full dd
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 1x for partial dd (206dd of 1289dd)
A Grotesque Statue – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements 1x
Wrath of Elements landed 7x
Resisted Seeking Flame of Seukor 5x
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 2x full dd
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 2x for partial dd (618dd of 1289dd and 1198 of 1289)
Summary of Findings:
Casted: 78
Resisted: 20
Landed: 58
If I am calculating correctly this is only a 26% resist rate. This was PRIOR to Wiz lessoning the resist rates in the latest patch.
*Mala was only casted on 22 out of the 78 times
CHA: 103
Level/Class: 60 Arch Mage
Kobald Klansman – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements 1x
Wrath of Elements landed landed 9x
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 2x full dd
Moved on to more difficult mobs and for a longer period of time …
Zone: Eldenal’s Mansion
CHA: 103
Level/Class: 60 Arch Mage
A decadent Elven Guard – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements 3x
Wrath of Elements landed 25x
Resisted Seeking Flame of Seukor 3x
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 5x full dd
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 2x for partial dd (206dd of 1289dd and 218 of 1289dd)
Tirleth – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements 1x
Wrath of Elements landed landed 1x
Resisted Seeking Flame of Seukor 1x
Theurgist of Elthannar – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements x1
Wrath of Elements landed x2
\Resisted Seeking Flame of Seukor x1
An Elthannar Wizard – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements 2x
Wrath of Elements landed 8x
Resisted Seeking Flame of Seukor 1x
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 1x full dd
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 1x for partial dd (206dd of 1289dd)
A Grotesque Statue – Dark Blue
Resisted Wrath of Elements 1x
Wrath of Elements landed 7x
Resisted Seeking Flame of Seukor 5x
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 2x full dd
Seeking Flame of Seukor landed 2x for partial dd (618dd of 1289dd and 1198 of 1289)
Summary of Findings:
Casted: 78
Resisted: 20
Landed: 58
If I am calculating correctly this is only a 26% resist rate. This was PRIOR to Wiz lessoning the resist rates in the latest patch.
*Mala was only casted on 22 out of the 78 times
Wiz said, I will borrow your character and recreate the exact same test. I will then post the exact parsed results here. Here's your chance to either prove to me that you are getting craaazy resists or look foolish because you cherrypicked/exaggerated your sample.
I am waiting for this to happen. Take my shaman to Yaralith and fight the sewer mobs. See how the dots and slows work. Or don't take my toon, take other people. I am not sure why the change occured in the first place. I know this is your server and I for one appreciate the hell out of it. I signed up my toon on a gold account because it is surely worth it. That being said, I just don't get that there was a problem and how the game has been improved. I can use my shaman to heal my monk or cant malo mobs before using mana on dots or slows but to have to dot a green mob that has been green for six levels...ouch.
I am waiting for this to happen. Take my shaman to Yaralith and fight the sewer mobs. See how the dots and slows work. Or don't take my toon, take other people. I am not sure why the change occured in the first place. I know this is your server and I for one appreciate the hell out of it. I signed up my toon on a gold account because it is surely worth it. That being said, I just don't get that there was a problem and how the game has been improved. I can use my shaman to heal my monk or cant malo mobs before using mana on dots or slows but to have to dot a green mob that has been green for six levels...ouch.
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
Arif said:
What on earth makes you think I haven't? I've been tweaking resists constantly since the change went in, this post is only here to publically disprove the people that are claiming 50%+ resist rates on average.
You still haven't provided a challenge as per the original post, and if you make one more shitty post in this thread I am suspending you.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Just gonna go ahead and point out that I personally want to punch everyone exaggering about the resist rate because your stupid claims of 80% resist rate are covering up the fact that a 25% bounce rate makes the mob an extrodinary pain in the ass for casters to fight, and in the case of spells like root has this nasty tendancy to kill people.
To all those complaining about resists all Wiz/admin is asking of you is some numbers, your character and a zone/mob. Provided with this information he will test it and tweak resists if he sees an glaring issue.
http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6683
Wiz generally isnt out to get you and make you leave his server. He keeps this server up so people can enjoy themselves. I know sometimes we overlook that fact but if he didnt care he wouldnt listen to people or ask them to post this info. So I ask that instead of whining and yelling at wiz we just post the numbers and let him to his thing. Because if the problem is glaring he will fix it of that im 100000000% sure.
http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6683
Wiz generally isnt out to get you and make you leave his server. He keeps this server up so people can enjoy themselves. I know sometimes we overlook that fact but if he didnt care he wouldnt listen to people or ask them to post this info. So I ask that instead of whining and yelling at wiz we just post the numbers and let him to his thing. Because if the problem is glaring he will fix it of that im 100000000% sure.
H
HighLife
Guest
I already am thanking Wiz for the results about snares, because I have noticed a difference. To be completely honest with ya Wiz, I appreciate you even caring enough to do this for us, and I hope more people submit decent data for you to tweak universal rates to something acceptable.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Could enchanter pbae color stuns get a little sugar? Not as much as mez, but more than 0, in terms of resist rates would be very much appreciated 
Edit: This is because pbae stuns generally get used without the luxury of a tash.
Edit: This is because pbae stuns generally get used without the luxury of a tash.
jedz
Dalayan Adventurer
tiny bit of info
I play a 58 enchanter (Molo) and a lvl 60 monk (Jedz). Last night i took my toons to RSM to fight lesser imps, golems etc. During a few overpulls Molo realized that AE stuns were resisted everytime. After tash it works like it used to work. Molo is sad becuase she used to use those ae stuns a lot in train pulls to get some mez's off. If she has to AE tash before stunning she might as well suicide herself. I will do further testing in more zones but i have pre-posted here in case this is something that has changed on purpose, if i am overlooking something, or this has not yet been noticed.
Spells casted was Color Slant the lvl 52 stun (only one i am able to get off before dying)
This was tested 3 times (sorry) group was tired of rezzing me.
3-5 mobs each time
All resisted.
She had 191 cha at the time with a shaman cha buff.
<3
I play a 58 enchanter (Molo) and a lvl 60 monk (Jedz). Last night i took my toons to RSM to fight lesser imps, golems etc. During a few overpulls Molo realized that AE stuns were resisted everytime. After tash it works like it used to work. Molo is sad becuase she used to use those ae stuns a lot in train pulls to get some mez's off. If she has to AE tash before stunning she might as well suicide herself. I will do further testing in more zones but i have pre-posted here in case this is something that has changed on purpose, if i am overlooking something, or this has not yet been noticed.
Spells casted was Color Slant the lvl 52 stun (only one i am able to get off before dying)
This was tested 3 times (sorry) group was tired of rezzing me.
3-5 mobs each time
All resisted.
She had 191 cha at the time with a shaman cha buff.
<3
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