"heroic" mode?

Is making it easier to complete tomes on lower end old world content a good idea? The faster these tomes get filled, the faster the game runs out of content again. It should be as competitive to XP at the top end as it is to raid. Also, this WILL affect fresh 65s in a negative way. This is exactly the same as dropping high end quest pieces in low end raid zones.
 
Is making it easier to complete tomes on lower end old world content a good idea? The faster these tomes get filled, the faster the game runs out of content again. It should be as competitive to XP at the top end as it is to raid. Also, this WILL affect fresh 65s in a negative way. This is exactly the same as dropping high end quest pieces in low end raid zones.

This is 100% correct. Especially the second half. It seems to me like all the focus on SoD is on the high end game, which is fine to a point. There is already a ton of stuff to do when you are starting out and you run out of things at the top. The problem is the demand for stuff at the top has caused a lot of lower end content to be used for high end stuff (hello relic hunters). Making low end xp zones available to top tier players who already demonstrate they are more capable of dedicating a lot more time to the game just marginalizes newer players/those who do not have the ability to power through SoD's highest challenges. In turn this just pushes people away who would otherwise be sticking around. The population has decreased a decent amount over the last 1.5 years or so, and making it more competitive just to get in the door is not going to help that.
 
Yeah, I don't like this idea at all in extant zones. Keeping this concept is specially designed zones like Nadox keeps the vast majority of the negative side effects from happening.

That said, and the following being said where Zaela can hear it, the key to getting the Dev Team interested in doing more with Nadox or more things like Nadox is to.... do Nadox.

Nadox will get beaten eventually. The group I do Nadox with most often is just being delayed because of RL issues with Cless. It's a fun zone and about half the people I've dragged there seemed to love it. The other half are lame people would rather grind out 50 tomes in Citadel groups and using the money to pay for leech in Remnants and then whine about getting a 1.2 on their alts :psyduck:.

(side note, <3 the psyduck emoticon)
 
Yeah, our group is at second beacon with challenger and the stabilized elementals down. Also, I think a group has already done one of the bosses past that. I just need to stop being so slack.
 
Is making it easier to complete tomes on lower end old world content a good idea? The faster these tomes get filled, the faster the game runs out of content again. It should be as competitive to XP at the top end as it is to raid. Also, this WILL affect fresh 65s in a negative way. This is exactly the same as dropping high end quest pieces in low end raid zones.

Well look, most tomes aren't super exciting. Your first few sure, maybe some class ones, but doing them is not what keeps me or my friends playing. You know what kills the game high end? Bottle necks - progression mobs on lock down, preventing other guilds from progressing, drama that ensues, having to get up in the middle of the night or stay up half the night to raid, looking for quest mobs that are often sniped, running the same circles in the same zones... doing exp is kind of the counter to all that, and I'd argue strongly AGAINST the view point that non-raid time should in any way end up like that.

I'd also argue this will not at all be like dropping quest items in lower raid zones - in that case, individual targets that spawn on a raid timer are left unavailable for progression for lower level toons. How is that in any way like trying to expand exp options? If anything it would help lower lvls, by encouraging people who are sick of exping in the same 2-3 zones to exp more, and if we instituted an anti-buff bot code, then even better for the lower lvl guys. And the lack of diversity at the high end is arguably bad for the server, people burn out and/or quit, which then deprives their guild of a dedicated player, and the server of someone with vested interests in its continuation. And as lower lvl guys gear/level up, then there's more of a bottle neck for the same exp zones.

And just to restate it, I was suggesting basically some sort of nadox global code - we're not talking about a single group wiping out all the mobs to kill in miel c, or eldinals, or wherever. That can happen now easily - bumping the difficulty, making it take time and effort to kill mobs in exchange for the exp merely opens up options for people - and it would be available to lower lvls as well.

If done right I just don't see the whole of the non-end game suddenly vanishing. How many mobs can a nadox crew take out, especially if lacking the out of combat regen? What zones exactly are we afraid are going to be overrun by a handful of groups exping there?

As I've mentioned before, I like nadox. That said a lot of people don't. So why not take the agreeably neat aspects of nadox, as an option to people who want to use them, and open up other areas of the game? No content is repurposed, no zones redone, and with the wide variety of places to go, I doubt seriously anyone would be inconvenienced.

Nadox itself can support 1-2 groups, so adding it to the list we get nadox / cita / bq / tears / ec / fr - maybe kaesora? There's prison/abyss/yclist/spires/tur ruj to raid high end? Suggesting people just add Nadox to their cycle doesn't really help - people who don't like it won't go, people looking to work on charms as well as exp won't go, and having a group or two there means we can't go - all leaving those of us just looking to hang out with friends kinda SOL. I'm just looking for a fun and worthwhile way to continue one's character, recapture some of the lower tier fun without having to make an alt, with minimum work for the devs and without shutting anyone t0+ out of the fun.

Worst case? We try it, we hate it, we stop it. Or limit it to a few zones for testing, rather than just jumping from zero to server wide - miel c, red sun mines, fire grotto, maybe a couple others.
 
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The end game XPers can XP anywhere. Fresh 65s can't. Giving end game players a reason to take over low end XP zones is bad for fresh 65s. This game already heavily caters to the top end players. There's no reason to make life harder for newer players. Adding certain mobs or reworking a couple zones to be more Nadox-like sounds reasonable. Letting high tier players run roughshod over ALL content doesn't.
 
The end game XPers can XP anywhere. Fresh 65s can't. Giving end game players a reason to take over low end XP zones is bad for fresh 65s. This game already heavily caters to the top end players. There's no reason to make life harder for newer players. Adding certain mobs or reworking a couple zones to be more Nadox-like sounds reasonable. Letting high tier players run roughshod over ALL content doesn't.

You have this backwards. High tier players currently can "run roughshod over all content" if they feel like it, there's just generally no real incentive to do so. Adding a heroic mode would add an incentive, but at the same time prevent a single boxer or group from clearing all of MielC. (Increasing the time it takes them to kill each mob and forcing them to pull much smaller numbers of mobs at a time.)

How many high tier exp groups ever run at the same time? I'd say 5-6 at most (I guess this varies based on what you think of as "high tier"). Even if they all decided to do easier zones in heroic mode rather than Cita/BQ, there would still be enough room for the lower end groups.
 
The end game XPers can XP anywhere. Fresh 65s can't. Giving end game players a reason to take over low end XP zones is bad for fresh 65s. This game already heavily caters to the top end players. There's no reason to make life harder for newer players. Adding certain mobs or reworking a couple zones to be more Nadox-like sounds reasonable. Letting high tier players run roughshod over ALL content doesn't.

Except the end game players only exp in 1 or 2 zones.

Having done 40+ tomes in Citadel, I support having some way of breathing new life into old exp zones that I haven't seen in two years. Even if high end players had a reason to exp in the lower end zones, I don't see how they would prevent any other group from finding somewhere to exp, considering just how many zones there are and how many of them are usually empty.
 
When I started playing on this server, prime time would see like 500+ people, and there were none of the Ikisith zones. Right now we hit like 300 maybe? Diversifying options for people would not end the server as we know it.

Again, a heroic mode would also be available to lower level groups, which along with any high tier groups would reduce the quantity of mobs killed by increasing their difficulty/reward.

Lets say 10 groups of high levelers start playin, thats 60 people. And if we consider that nadox code knocks players down in tiers in exchange for expanded options of places to go and increased rewards (compared to those zones normally), very effectively slowing down their kill rate, we're talking about:

Miel c
red sun mines
fire grotto
crystal caverns
kedge keep
east plaguelands
west plaguelands
darkwoods
eldinals
catacombs of eldinals
dragon necropolis
dreadfang spire
dreadlands
east freeport
west freeport
north freeport
emerald jungle
everchill caverns
field of bone
frosthorn?
great divide
frosthorn
gorge of the one eye?
great divide
haegra malath
remnants of old ikild
first ruins
kaesora
sirens grotto
sorcs lab
the deepshade
the murk
the rust

in addition to the common citadel of the claw, bloodied quarry, kaesora, tears of elael, nadox

Now some of those zones get more usage than others, but generally any of them could handle 2-3+ groups - thats ~ 76 to 114 groups? Which means 456 to 684 level 65s exping at once - we don't even have that many on the server most days. I didn't include any raid zones (misery, nightmare, air, etc.) where the trash could be killed, to prevent any problems with progression.

Seriously I just don't see how lower lvls suddenly don't find a place to go - if they couldn't group up with higher tiers if for no other reason than the lack of buff botting. And again lower level guys being able to utilize the same system, effectively slowing their kill rate if they chose to use it... there's seriously plenty to go around - some of those zones don't see regular groups at all as it is.

But if we're all still super worried about the server ending, then maybe we can just add this to ikisith zones? or zones that don't get as much usage, as an incentive to spread out to those zones more (for mid and higher tier guys). I really like zaela's idea of heroic bosses, with loot that depends on the difficulty when beaten, so many options!!
 
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There are other zones with comparable xp to cita/bq. Deep FR, Rust Factory, and ToE goblins with a half assed monk or good necro are not bad.

I do have a comment though that when players and devs talk about nadoxing the server. I hope they mean that this is an electable choice, as most of these zones have LOTS of quest drops. Casters are pretty dependent on vastly out-tiering content before hoping to finish quests here.
 
There are other zones with comparable xp to cita/bq. Deep FR, Rust Factory, and ToE goblins with a half assed monk or good necro are not bad.

I do have a comment though that when players and devs talk about nadoxing the server. I hope they mean that this is an electable choice, as most of these zones have LOTS of quest drops. Casters are pretty dependent on vastly out-tiering content before hoping to finish quests here.

My general idea, stated in the first post, was to have the ability to turn it on/off specifically for this reason.
 
Lots of zones.

I don't know what it would do to lower end xping to be honest, but the thing that your list is sort of leaving out is that there is a progression to the xp zones as well as to the raid game. Is a group that is comfortable xping in freeport going to be able to get up and move to plowing through DFS? Can a group that is struggling in Elds move into everchill without any problems? Red Sun Mines is pretty different from Fire Grotto. Some zones on this list really don't even belong there - basically all the outdoor zones because if you have a full group you aren't going to be in WPL, EPL, DW, and the zones that are really not even 65 xp zones like CC, Sorcs, forsthorn etc. Your point still stands that there are a lot of zones, but you should keep in mind the people xping in these zones are not always the same group of people.

Doesn't that also mean that people could go from doing rust to deciding to go to crystal caverns instead. The rewards would be nowhere near the same though, so they do rust because that is what is the best reward for what they can handle. Isn't this what you are saying is the problem with top end xping? I think this happens at every level, it is just that until you hit the top there is always somewhere to progress to.

I just want to end by clarifying I am not actually against your idea - I think it is kinda neat. I am however against using the existing zones to do it. Make alternate versions of the same zones or something (is that possible?) so that a high end group is not using up a prime xp spot for entry level players. Or at least restrict this to zones that are almost never used by on tier groups (do people go to kedge unless there is a good reason?).
 
If you're getting bored because you refuse to do exp outside of "top end exp groups", then you only have yourself to blame.

I've done plenty of tomes without getting a single point of experience from Cita/BQ/FR et al.

Take some lower groups. Go be the one person in the group with more than 100 AAs. Meet new people. Encourage those fresh 65s, and get experience in those groups that will seem to them to be amazing experience.

This is ultimately a social game, and if you're playing with just 20 people and doing just 5 zones, then it's no wonder you're bored.
 
If you're getting bored because you refuse to do exp outside of "top end exp groups", then you only have yourself to blame.

I've done plenty of tomes without getting a single point of experience from Cita/BQ/FR et al.

Take some lower groups. Go be the one person in the group with more than 100 AAs. Meet new people. Encourage those fresh 65s, and get experience in those groups that will seem to them to be amazing experience.

This is ultimately a social game, and if you're playing with just 20 people and doing just 5 zones, then it's no wonder you're bored.

I don't want to get off topic here, this was never meant to be a "bitch about zone xyz" post. I just thought this might be a cool addition, something different/fun that could add another layer of entertainment. My favorite times of live and sod were the dungeon crawls, and while there are a few of those (emberflow), there just seems to be many areas of the game that don't get that much usage.

I've been discussing how I think this could fit into and augment the game as it is, and I just don't see it as being detrimental. Even if we wanted to limit it to certain areas, I still think it would be something fun to do.
 
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If you're getting bored because you refuse to do exp outside of "top end exp groups", then you only have yourself to blame.

I've done plenty of tomes without getting a single point of experience from Cita/BQ/FR et al.

Take some lower groups. Go be the one person in the group with more than 100 AAs. Meet new people. Encourage those fresh 65s, and get experience in those groups that will seem to them to be amazing experience.

This is ultimately a social game, and if you're playing with just 20 people and doing just 5 zones, then it's no wonder you're bored.

I would but they always want melee dps.
 
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