"heroic" mode?

[Iliangur]

Was thinking about the kind of small selection high end for exp areas, and how much fun like meil a/b/c etc. were, I thought I'd toss out the idea of SoD Heroic mode.

Basically I was thinking a command or stance could be added, like /h 1-5, where /h 1 would be no modification, /h 4 would be like bq/cita difficulty, and /h 5 would be something akin to early/mid tier raid trash difficulty. The new "stance" would alter the players resist/dmg mitigation and dps according to the difficulty chosen, and give an exp bonus accordingly, with a ~15 min cool down on changing "stances." Changing the players dps/resists would effectively increase the mobs hp, while decreasing player resist/mitigation would effectively increase mob difficulty.

The idea being that the higher /h become available at different levels (so a lvl 20 couldn't do /h 5 and get spanked). Then, if a group of lower tier players are having fun in a zone they can handle, maybe they can /h 2 or /h 3 to increase the difficulty/reward, whereas a t9+ group that might be tired of exping in say citadel, could /h 4 or /h 5 and go to like meil c or something, to get exp that would be on par with cita or bq. This could open up any zone that has blue con mobs that would otherwise give exp as a viable exping area without having to rework the zones themselves. Being able to reset to /h 1 would remove any extra dangers/benefits which might make questing for example more difficult otherwise.

I was thinking just along the lines of exp, but as far as cash rewards we could institute a system like Krinaka the Poetess in murk - where killing mobs of a certain type (in murk or abyss) are recorded and rewarded after hailing her. We could institute an npc that would count the number of mobs killed under /h 2+, and give a randomly chosen amount of cash or items that would sell on par for the difficulty. For example, /h 4 could give a random number of remnants caves Ikilid coins type rewards to sell, or some kind of representation of what an average group in citadel might make.

Exp potions, stance's changing player's abilities, etc. are all things we've got in other area's of the game already - so hopefully it wouldn't be reinventing the wheel for any wonderful dev to look at!

 

[Bonster]

Sounds like an amazing idea, would love to see this implemented!

 

[Udeni]

I really like the idea of this! It would allow basically ANY zone to become a good exp zone. It would allow players to be like "hey I don't wanna go to cita, so why don't we go to /h 4 DN, mielc, elds, crystal caverns, etc"

 

[Zaela]

I'm not sure I like the idea of people doing trivial content for super exp. Considering how much equipment and spells go up the reductions would have to be enormous. And then there's the matter of high-end people just generally being more efficient and 2-boxy and buff-botted so they'd probably still have a huge advantage in e.g. miel c over a group that would normally go there, even if their stats were made lower. And then there'd be the matter of lower-end exp zones being flooded with higher-end people and actual lower-end people having nowhere to go, but that is probably the smaller issue.

edit: relatedly, lower-end exp content tends to be incredibly simple compared to Marza's stuff.

 

[Iliangur]

Well the general idea is to make trivial content not trivial anymore - and it seemed like an easier way to recycle existing content rather than have to rework it all or need to only add new content. If the dps of the boxes is reduced, and their mitigation is too I was thinking it would be actually challenging. As far as how to reduce the stats - maybe just reduce it all by a % rather than reduce AC by 100 (for example). I dunno :keke: And while I agree about some people being more efficient about 2boxing etc., if the mobs became on par with cita/bq difficulty (just using them as a base case), even having the ability to boost exp probably wouldn't be better than grouping - not many people chose to duo in those zones atm.

The exp can be really good in bq/cita, but having only those choices gets so boring and the only real alternatives are like first ruins / everchill / tears / remnants (depending on how fast you kill) =( And there are ton's of zones that just aren't really used that much - Just was thinking about how to make other alternatives on par with that difficulty/reward, as it is possible to go to hhk/elds/mielc/plaguelands/darkwoods/red sun peaks/red sun mines/dreadfang etc. as is. If you wanted to mix it up, maybe could have the stances inflict random reverse damage shield type stuff on the players - ie giving the lower tier mobs additional procs / abilities without having to alter those mobs themselves.

With groups of all levels able to do this, it would help with congested zones too - if there's 2 or 3 groups eldinals for example, being able to /h 2 or /h 3 would make the mobs harder / give more reward, slowing the slaughter the groups do but keeping the reward up (more bang for the mobs).

I also don't think there'd be a super swarm of higher lvl people going anywhere in particular, if the mobs are sufficiently difficult then even miel c (just using that for an example) could still support several groups. And if the players had the ability to do this anywhere, then I'd personally be happy hitting just plaguelands or something, or maybe exping in prophets/dreadlands/fob.

 

[Silosobi]

It would be impossible to balance this, so basically the exp in lower zones would have to be worse. It might be neat just to be able to go there and have a challenge, but if people really cared about that over exp/$/hour they could just take off some gear.

In the end I think its a neat idea that probably isn't practical.

 

[Udeni]

I really don't think there would be a lack of lower-tiered content if this got implemented. There's just so many low end zones that I don't think that anybody would run out of mobs. And as ili said, if there's sufficient difficulty, then a zone like mielechc could support 2-3 groups. Of course, numbers would need tweaking and this being implemented might take a while, but I can see it being beneficial to the server forever.

Also, as you go up in /h ranks maybe decrease focus effects worn by ranks? or decrease their effect?

 

[Iliangur]

It would be impossible to balance this, so basically the exp in lower zones would have to be worse. It might be neat just to be able to go there and have a challenge, but if people really cared about that over exp/$/hour they could just take off some gear.

In the end I think its a neat idea that probably isn't practical.

Why couldn't it be balanced? If there's a sufficient exp bonus / mitigation reduction to boost difficulty. It's just a general idea, but I'm sure someone could come up with a fun way to reduce player power and/or boost npc power for the desired effect. There's just a lot of areas that aren't used, and a congestion after a certain lvl / tier.

I mean I'm not suggesting an exact replacement of bq/cita with eldinals, but trying to considerably close that gap as to open up the options would be great.

 

[Moraelintz]

I really like the idea of 'Heroic' mode. As of right now there are only 2 zones worth exping in at the high end. It would bring back older content and zones that havent gotten much use outside of bounties and quests. Could also increase the difficulty of those 2 zones enough ppl are in 'zombie' mode when they do them.

 

[Tarutao]

Consider trying Nadox. The gear-stats drop and the big exp ... both there. Not to mention, it's content a lot of 65s haven't done.

 

[Dinadass]

I really like the idea of 'Heroic' mode. As of right now there are only 2 zones worth exping in at the high end. It would bring back older content and zones that havent gotten much use outside of bounties and quests. Could also increase the difficulty of those 2 zones enough ppl are in 'zombie' mode when they do them.

I don't really think the older zones don't get much use, they just don't get much use from people with high tier gear and tomes. HHK, First Ruins, MielC, Sorc's Lab, Fire Grotto, Kaesora all have people there tonight. But it is somewhat of an issue for the top echelon of players because they don't get the same experience or money per session in any zones aside from BQ/Cita for the most part.

That being said, anything that would open up more options for more people would be a positive thing, and heroic mode or something similar sounds like a great idea as long as it can be tuned properly.

 

[Zaela]

Nadox.

If I did do something like this I'd probably reuse a lot of the Nadox code. Also would probably make it something that requires you to zone to change the setting, being able to change the setting mid-fight or even between fights would suck out most of the challenge. Even being able to camp out to change the setting partway through a zone might be something I'd want to prevent... It would also have to be group wide one way or another to prevent one leecher going into super exp mode while other people slaughter at full power with no risk.

Also Nadox-style anti-buffbot would have to be active at all levels before I'd agree to any of this.

Also, no exp bonus if you're in a raid.

 

[Ekyu]

Is that a challenge accepted Zae?

 

[Zaela]

No. Need approval. And interest.

 

[Iliangur]

Consider trying Nadox. The gear-stats drop and the big exp ... both there. Not to mention, it's content a lot of 65s haven't done.

I have done nadox and it's cool, but it's also kind of a bummer to have the tomes/worn effects we've spent so much time gathering cut down so entirely, something like this would give you the option to scale in exchange for rewards. But more importantly, it would be fun to be able to dungeon crawl areas we leveled up in etc. Being able to chose to go basically ANYWHERE semi-nadox style would be incredible!

 

[Iliangur]

If I did do something like this I'd probably reuse a lot of the Nadox code. Also would probably make it something that requires you to zone to change the setting, being able to change the setting mid-fight or even between fights would suck out most of the challenge. Even being able to camp out to change the setting partway through a zone might be something I'd want to prevent... It would also have to be group wide one way or another to prevent one leecher going into super exp mode while other people slaughter at full power with no risk.

Also Nadox-style anti-buffbot would have to be active at all levels before I'd agree to any of this.

Also, no exp bonus if you're in a raid.

And yea I didn't want people to be able to game a system like this, which is why I suggested a ~15 min cool down between switching, maybe make it require out of combat too, but I can see making people zone also - wouldn't be nearly as much fun to just slaughter your way deep somewhere then switch over. I've also thought about the group gaming by having the tank /h 1 and everyone else /h 5, so a group setting would be pro.

One of my favorite parts of Nadox was the anti-buff bot, as an enchanter it's been a boon to have to be taken, so I'd like to see that also for /h 2-5. Sometimes it's hard to find certain classes, so having /h 1 basically have things as they are would allow the extra benefit of those buffs, in exchange for the extra fun/reward of something like this.

 

[Zaela]

One thing I do like is the possibility of adding a few extra bosses here and there that drop better loot the higher your group's challenge setting is.

I know Slaariel liked the idea of more Nadox-like zones but making whole zones like that is hard, especially after the first one bombed. Individual mobs might be easier to work.

 

[Iliangur]

I like nadox, I wouldnt consider it a bomb - but it's often hard to get groups to go there.

 

[Prospero]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this (because it is shot down every time it comes up), but it seems like basically what you are trying to accomplish anyway. Why not have some sort of simple quest or whatever that allows you to create an instanced zone that has the same mobs/layout but uses the Nadox code, for select lower tier dungeons (lilke mielC, elds etc.) My complete lack of coding knowledge in this game hints to me that this would make it easier than trying to implement a game-wide heroic mode. The other advantage I see is that people who are appropriate level for the zones in question will still be able to use them, and the people who want to try god mode in everchill can be doing that as well.

To me this also makes sense RP wise. It makes more sense that you are transported to a sort of alternate reality where you are weaker but are fighting the same mobs than it does to be in the same place a fresh 65 would be but everything all of a sudden is way harder.

Note: I have always been told the resistance to instancing zones was because of player interaction (which IMO is non-existant if someone is grinding out a dungeon anyway outside of the group). If it is some technical issue or far more taxing on the server then I completely understand why instanced zones would be bad for SoD.

 

[oozu1234]

I like nadox, I wouldnt consider it a bomb - but it's often hard to get groups to go there.

This.

Also @ pkin

They have very similiar things in live called Monster Missions. where basically you put on a "shroud" it turns you into a much weaker form of a certain class. basically a lvl 65 or w/e the intended zone difficulty is or was with so many aa's and little to no gear. it allowed people to go back and get joy out of having a difficult time in zones like "back in the day" and it also gave you a range of levels to choose from so outside of the instanced zones you could "shroud down to" whatever class and level and group with your friends with the disadvantage of it not being the "real class" and having no gear. Was a really neat concept on live. afaik its impossible here untill 3.0 because i think its all in the later client expansions.