Exhausted Stances

[Kazimir]

There are a couple problems with these stances (mainly the dmg ones not interupts and invulnerability ones):

1) Exhaustion lasts forever which means at no point in a fight are you ever going to use a stance again.

2) These stances have virtually no duration so the benefits almost never outweigh other options.

There are a few possible means of taking these from pretty much never used to making them situational. They could just be same duration and not exhaust the player or the exhaustion time could be reduced from 5m? to somewhere around 90sec to 2 min. As it currently stands if a class uses a double damage stance they only gain a 50%ish increase for 10 second or so compared to their standard dmg based stance including /s 2 for sustained periods of time.

One other possible adaptation would be to add a cooldown to the stances and have them not exhaust this would allow the player to use another stance of /s 2 and could even prove useful for the defensive versions so that a monk for instance could still invul a pull and dps the fight.

While some minor balancing might be needed, overall I don't think making this change would disrupt balance and would make stance classes a bit more useful than being stuck in /s 1.

Edit: one last thought is to remove /s 2-3 from requiring stamina to be available.

 

[booster]

so get the exhaustion recovery tome.

Tales of Rapid Recovery (Decrease exhaustion timer) - 20 % decreased exhaustion time after extreme styles

also, ethereal stance saves me all the time.

 

[Rusheeth]

nimble dance on rogue (invul) is a lifesaver, even if you're at 50% sta at the time it still either a) gives you time for a heal or b) escape. Of course perks ill never turn down but just sayin' stances like that are for OMG NO situations, and same with the critical precision (double damage) on rog, well i use that when the healer is down and i think i can finish the fight. Then i win and rez urn and in conclusion that's what i think exhaustive stances are for.

 

[Kazimir]

There are a couple problems with these stances (mainly the dmg ones not interupts and invulnerability ones)

.

 

[Xeldan]

The exhaustion stances are designed to be used in a pinch, which in turn gives them a design that isn't attractive to use in typical scenarios, as intended. They aren't there to use nonchalantly as a consistent DPS boost.

 

[Dimmi]

I use the critical precision stance...probly more than I "should" especially on boss fight chanter curses, b/c i like big numbers =D 18k BSs and 10k vah-banner life-taps make mah day, and I usually have enough stamina back for /s 2 by the time loots are done, the raid's settled down, and pulls are commencing again. The only real problem (if you can call it that) that I have with stances are that after playing a rogue, then playing a monk, i made angry faces at how many more stances monks get that have a significantly lower stamina drain rate....but then again, monks are more utility than a rogue by a long shot....rogues just make big numbers. *shrug*

 

[Diodimus]

I don't think this is really a big issue. I use the multi-shot stance several times in the night just to speed up finishing off a named. I can use this several times in a night since going from named to named takes more than 5 minutes in most cases.

 

[Dinadass]

I use the critical precision stance...probly more than I "should" especially on boss fight chanter curses, b/c i like big numbers =D 18k BSs and 10k vah-banner life-taps make mah day, and I usually have enough stamina back for /s 2 by the time loots are done, the raid's settled down, and pulls are commencing again. The only real problem (if you can call it that) that I have with stances are that after playing a rogue, then playing a monk, i made angry faces at how many more stances monks get that have a significantly lower stamina drain rate....but then again, monks are more utility than a rogue by a long shot....rogues just make big numbers. *shrug*

WTB monk dps stances

 

[Budizzle]

Warrior's Final Stand is awful. There's no way that stance is ever used in any situation, as I remember it anyway. That stance might see use if a secondary warrior with full stamina has aggro on a boss at 0% and all the healers dead, but even then it probably wouldn't work. I doubt anyone has ever encountered a scenario where it was optimal, let alone necessary.

All the other exhaustion stances seem to work as intended though.

 

[Wesell]

There is at least one encounter where using Final Stand is optimal. Most of the time it's nothing great. It's right where it should be considering it is on the same class as the Area Taunt ability.

 

[Tyvec-a-tron]

I can think of an encounter over the last 2 weeks where Final Stand has been useful, but I hadn't used it in months beforehand. If that's the intent, so be it. If not, fix it.

 

[Budizzle]

I can think of an encounter over the last 2 weeks where Final Stand has been useful, but I hadn't used it in months beforehand. If that's the intent, so be it. If not, fix it.

I honestly don't understand why it's instadeath after exhaustion. As I remember it, the stance only lasted ~1 tick on a full bar of stamina, which really isn't a whole lot of time to do anything. Maybe it's enough time to ae taunt off your healers and sacrifice, but generally a warrior wouldn't be sacrificed anyway...

The stance would be so much more useful if it didn't result in death.

 

[Wesell]

It's not insta-death. You can be healed when stamina runs out. This stance also lasts much longer than 1 tick if you are buffed.

 

[Nuvian]

the stance drops the warrior to one hit point so yeah i guess if you have the most incredible bout of luck you can pull something out of your ass. i've personally only used it 3 or 4 times to my benefit over the past couple years.


Nuvian

 

[Budizzle]

It's not insta-death. You can be healed when stamina runs out. This stance also lasts much longer than 1 tick if you are buffed.

Since when?

I've never been successfully healed after using this stance (which I never used in any official scenario), even if I'm not being attacked. Disregarding the fact that exhausted warriors are absolutely worthless gaping pussy tanks, the chance of being healed after popping this stance is infinitesimal. What's the point?

Unless stamina regen was changed, this stance doesn't last more than maybe 15 seconds with maximum regen. That's hardly "much longer" than one tick; even two ticks isn't enough time to justify the use of this stance. You're an awful warrior if your stamina is ever above ~25-30% anyway, so it shouldn't last more than one tick regardless of how long it could potentially run.

I've never... ever engaged an encounter wherein Final Stand was optimal, necessary, or even briefly considered (let alone used), and I've killed everything except a few namers in Emberflow, Sanctum, Most of CoMercy (which was well under tier for my guild when it was implemented, so I never bothered really), Haegra Malath (which was implemented well after I was banned), a couple quest mobs in PoFire, and Ikisith. And I'm positive every single one of the encounters I haven't completed can and have been done more efficiently without using Final Stand.

Enlighten me.

 

[Wesell]

Final Stand lasts 18 seconds.

Based on your list I'd say that your statement that you have never done the encounter that I'm aware of where Final Stand can actually be used as part of a strat is true.

When you use Final Stand you know exactly when you are going to hit 1 hp. If your healers can time a heal well you don't have to die. You could also get a DA or FD as your stamina is running out. It's true that even if you don't die a warrior is not much good as a tank without the ability to use stances, but if you don't have somebody else to tank who you can shield for your situation might be completely unrecoverable anyway.

Warrior stamina is not always at 25%, it's at whatever level it gets up to depending on how many hard hitting mobs you've been tanking lately.

 

[Budizzle]

Final Stand lasts 18 seconds.

Based on your list I'd say that your statement that you have never done the encounter that I'm aware of where Final Stand can actually be used as part of a strat is true.

When you use Final Stand you know exactly when you are going to hit 1 hp. If your healers can time a heal well you don't have to die. You could also get a DA or FD as your stamina is running out. It's true that even if you don't die a warrior is not much good as a tank without the ability to use stances, but if you don't have somebody else to tank who you can shield for your situation might be completely unrecoverable anyway.

Warrior stamina is not always at 25%, it's at whatever level it gets up to depending on how many hard hitting mobs you've been tanking lately.

Even if your claim wasn't absolute bullshit, one encounter definitely does not reasonably redeem the stance. I'll reiterate though: if you ever have enough stamina for Final Stand to run longer than one tick in a situation that would require the stance, you're a bad warrior. Either way, it's a fucking huge risk to sacrifice the presumable main tank -- bouncing aggro, loss of a tank, and harder heals would all contribute to the systematic assfucking your raid/group. Every other exhausting stance fills a moderate or strategic niche; Final Stand does not.

I understand that warriors have plenty of stances that fully compensate for Final Stand, but I just don't understand why it exists at all. It should be changed into a dps stance, imo.

Edit: I'm still calling bullshit on Final Stand lasting three full ticks, but I can't really verify that anymore.

 

[Loxo]

it's great for buying time.

 

[Jotigidou]

Divine benevolence can save you after stance, no ?

 

[Wesell]

Divine benevolence can save you after stance, no ?

Yes. You drop to one hit point when stamina runs out. If you die it's because you got hit or something so death save works the same way it normally does.

Edit: I'm still calling bullshit on Final Stand lasting three full ticks, but I can't really verify that anymore.

Plenty of people can verify the duration if they want.