robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
So can a HoT, or a regular heal, or Call of the Blessed.
Exhausted Stances
- Thread starter Kazimir
- Start date
So can a HoT, or a regular heal, or Call of the Blessed.
the requirement for an perfectly timed heal makes it very VERY unlikely if still being hit. The only way it isn't a suicide stance is if you get lucky w/ DB or the mob dies b4 the stance runs out.
Wait. Why the fuck are you people being disagreeable for the sake of it?
Assuming it does last three ticks and you could, in theory, live after exhaustion, the stance would still be useless. Here, if I wasn't being perfectly clear, I'll provide a common scenario:
1.) Pop /s 8; engage mob.
2.) Swap shield and run /s 9 at 40-50% stamina.
3.) Swap duel wield and run /s 12 at 10% stamina.
4.) Swap shield when you can.
5.) Swap shield and run /s 9 during rage.
or
1.) Pop /s 9; engage mob.
2.) Swap shield when you can.
3.) Run /s 12 at 10% stamina.
4.) Swap shield and run /s 9 on rage.
When the fuck would you ever have enough stamina for Final Stand to last beyond one tick?
Wait... there's more!
What do you think the chances are of you landing a death save, invuln, or heal before Final Stand is run?
Unless an encounter is specifically tailored to require Final Stand or your raid/group creates a scenario where it's useful -- both of which are unlikely -- it's useless. You could easily skip the encounter and do something less bad, or use a different method to the same results.
Nope. I'm a cynic.
Assuming it does last three ticks and you could, in theory, live after exhaustion, the stance would still be useless. Here, if I wasn't being perfectly clear, I'll provide a common scenario:
1.) Pop /s 8; engage mob.
2.) Swap shield and run /s 9 at 40-50% stamina.
3.) Swap duel wield and run /s 12 at 10% stamina.
4.) Swap shield when you can.
5.) Swap shield and run /s 9 during rage.
or
1.) Pop /s 9; engage mob.
2.) Swap shield when you can.
3.) Run /s 12 at 10% stamina.
4.) Swap shield and run /s 9 on rage.
When the fuck would you ever have enough stamina for Final Stand to last beyond one tick?
Wait... there's more!
What do you think the chances are of you landing a death save, invuln, or heal before Final Stand is run?
Unless an encounter is specifically tailored to require Final Stand or your raid/group creates a scenario where it's useful -- both of which are unlikely -- it's useless. You could easily skip the encounter and do something less bad, or use a different method to the same results.
Nope. I'm a cynic.
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Salarus
Dalayan Master
HoT would have to tick right as final stand ran out, which is unlikely. Death save is what, 33% (?) so that's a possibilitiy.
Really though, i've done encounters up to t10 and I haven't found a single one where it's better to use final stand over juggling stances. Don't get me wrong, I like it for the sheer epicness of it, but it's pretty fucking useless.
Really though, i've done encounters up to t10 and I haven't found a single one where it's better to use final stand over juggling stances. Don't get me wrong, I like it for the sheer epicness of it, but it's pretty fucking useless.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
I only know of two fights so far where you could possibly gain something from final stand and even then its a somewhat crappy plan. That said the double damage stances are fucking garbo and will always be fucking garbo.
Runic: Catatonia is clearly designed to exploit last stand spoilers.
Runic: Catatonia is clearly designed to exploit last stand spoilers.
Cinn
Banned Jerk
Last Stand needs to be changed to a set duration not based on current stamina.
As bud posted, and you all apparently are disagreeing with because you are fucking horrible at this game, the only time you'll ever use final stand is when you're at 10-20% stamina. This essentially makes it useless.
I've timed a HoT and a death save, or a big heal and LIVED after final stand. I've also died many many times trying to recreate this.
Make final stand a set duration and then take you from whatever stamina you're at to exhausted. Then it's atleast quasi-viable instead of complete trash, which it is right now.
Apart from that, every classes invuln stance is priceless and you're horrible if you don't use them often. Rangers Rogues Monks and Bards have the best exhaustive stances in the game.
as eyate stated, double damage stances are garbage and are only used in VERY VERY RARE situations, and they suffer from the same plight as final stand, where you *should* be using your regular stamina draining dps stances for the entire encounter, leaving you at 10-20% stamina at the end of the fight where you'd actually benefit from the "oh shit, burn it guys pop stances".
As bud posted, and you all apparently are disagreeing with because you are fucking horrible at this game, the only time you'll ever use final stand is when you're at 10-20% stamina. This essentially makes it useless.
I've timed a HoT and a death save, or a big heal and LIVED after final stand. I've also died many many times trying to recreate this.
Make final stand a set duration and then take you from whatever stamina you're at to exhausted. Then it's atleast quasi-viable instead of complete trash, which it is right now.
Apart from that, every classes invuln stance is priceless and you're horrible if you don't use them often. Rangers Rogues Monks and Bards have the best exhaustive stances in the game.
as eyate stated, double damage stances are garbage and are only used in VERY VERY RARE situations, and they suffer from the same plight as final stand, where you *should* be using your regular stamina draining dps stances for the entire encounter, leaving you at 10-20% stamina at the end of the fight where you'd actually benefit from the "oh shit, burn it guys pop stances".
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Wesell
Dalayan Elder
You can't effectively use this stance when you have been using up all of your stamina tanking (no shit). Nobody is arguing that you could. A warrior could only using this style effectively if they are tanking every pull in very rare situations. If you have two warriors in your raid it's somewhat more likely that you'll be able to use it when the situation arises where it would come in handy.
There are a lot of negatives to Final Stand, but consider just how strong this shit really is for a minute. You can pop Resilience and AE Taunt. When your HP gets low go into Final Stand. You can grab aggro, instantly, with 100% reliability and tank with 0 heals for more than 20 seconds.
There are a lot of negatives to Final Stand, but consider just how strong this shit really is for a minute. You can pop Resilience and AE Taunt. When your HP gets low go into Final Stand. You can grab aggro, instantly, with 100% reliability and tank with 0 heals for more than 20 seconds.
Wesell
Dalayan Elder
When the warrior dies the entire raid explodes into an insta-wipe, right?
There are two points about Final Stand the people are trying to make in this thread:
There are two points about Final Stand the people are trying to make in this thread:
- That Final Stand can't possibly be put to good use. I don't agree with that.
- That the times when Final Stand can be used effectively are too few because of stamina issues. I'll concede that you are probably right on this point. It's very rare to have a situation where Final Stand can be used effectively now.
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Honestly, I don't give a fuck what it gets changed to. Changing it to a timed duration would definitely make it a viable strategic option, which is a great idea.
I haven't played a warrior in almost a year now, so I really don't know how they've changed since then.
No, it can't be put to "good use." Unless your raid willfully creates a scenario that would utilize or even justify the use of Final Stand, it's useless. Players shouldn't have to tailor fuckwild, obscure strats to exploit shit that could be done more effectively without it. It's not a fun piece of novelty; it's a wonky piece of shit.
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Manguadi
Dalayan Beginner
Since you only have a set amount of stamina for the duration of a fight, it seems like optimal stamina usage would be to start off with a stamina stance and only use up some % of your stamina, maybe 50. Then you can let some stamina regenerate while the fight is still going well and people aren't dying. It's really not in your best interest to be caught out of stamina as one of the healers goes down or your raid begins to wipe, and as long as you end the fight out of stamina you will have gained the maximum amount of mitigation possible.
This way if you wipe at 20 or 30% your stamina is still relatively good and you can make use of some of the more situational stances. This same logic applies to all melee classes.
As for final stand specifically, it's not really meant to save your life, it's more like do it because healers can't heal and when you die then the bard and ranger can blow their stances too. A whole raid of these stances in the proper order can extend a wipe maybe 30 seconds with 0 heals. I'm not saying this is easy, but I believe it's part of the design, and as long as it is feasible at all I doubt it can be improved very much.
This way if you wipe at 20 or 30% your stamina is still relatively good and you can make use of some of the more situational stances. This same logic applies to all melee classes.
As for final stand specifically, it's not really meant to save your life, it's more like do it because healers can't heal and when you die then the bard and ranger can blow their stances too. A whole raid of these stances in the proper order can extend a wipe maybe 30 seconds with 0 heals. I'm not saying this is easy, but I believe it's part of the design, and as long as it is feasible at all I doubt it can be improved very much.
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Wut.... wut.
Your logic is broken.
Wut.
If you wipe, you have 0 stamina.
1.) Why would you extend a wipe? If wipe is imminent, you want it to happen as quick as possible so you can recover... as quick as possible.
2.) If classes burned their stamina on offensive stances, you wouldn't need the extra time you're suggesting.
3.) Conservative use of stamina as a defensive precaution is the staple of a bad player.
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Manguadi
Dalayan Beginner
because only bad players still have stamina duh. not to mention saving the wipe with an extra 30 seconds of dps and winning a la corefire 10% damage in about 15 seconds thank you tyrone 8 left in zone.
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Because if your dps spent their stamina burning, you wouldn't need an extra 30 seconds of dps. Where the fuck did you learn to apply logic?
Of course melee invuln stances are going to help reduce recovery time. That's irrelevant though, since I'm only talking about Final Stand...
The huge majority of wipes are caused by the main tank dying.
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booster
Dalayan Master
agree, but the main tank dying doesnt mean everyone is going to die!!
my point is, after the mt dies it usually jumps to a melee before a healer, and that melee can in turn use his stance to let healers camp arghh
Manguadi
Dalayan Beginner
The mob will die at exactly the same time if you spend your stamina late as if you spend it early as long as you never have full stamina during a fight.