Enchanter Spells: KEI and Gift of Brilliance

[GuiardoTuneweaver]

I'm not asking for a boon to GoB, I'm just asking to make it stackable with the regen line like GoM was with all the other regen line of spells.

The other line of regen spells don't include the mana component. As a higher level spell, one of the benefits of KEI is it combines a number of the different spell lines using only a single buff slot. Asking it to stack with GoM is like asking cleric's Aego to stack with Heroism, ac buff, and symbol. Everything has been balanced with those 2 spells not stacking. As Rab stated indirectly, if they were made to stack KEI would have to be nerfed to maintain balance, and everyone would need to use up an additional spell slot to achieve the same goal.

If it bothers you so, just delete GoM from your spell book and pretend it never existed.

 

[Temellin]

Man GoB rocks, extra 2 mana a tick and some base mana that stacks with lich? Only a crack headed necro wouldn't ask for it daily!

 

[Dzillon]

Maybe your problem is that those two spells are on the same level. Maybe lower the level at which ENC can cast GoB ? like 5 levels less or something, since it's way less powerful and single target compared to KEI.

 

[Nekkor]

Maybe your problem is that those two spells are on the same level. Maybe lower the level at which ENC can cast GoB ? like 5 levels less or something, since it's way less powerful and single target compared to KEI.

If GoB had been given earlier, then yes, it would make more sense. But the fact that it's on the same spell level as KEI and is only beneficial to one class outside of the Enchanter seems somewhat useless.

 

[Dzillon]

K maybe I just found the "problem".

Why not putting GoB a lil lower and Kei a lil upper ? after all next upgrade is relic, so put it a lil closer to it ? say 62 for example. KEI being at 57-58. Then the problem would stay rigorously the same but no one would yell about it.

 

[Aaubert]

I'm not asking for a boon to GoB, I'm just asking to make it stackable with the regen line like GoM was with all the other regen line of spells.

ITS ALREADY INCLUDED. ITS ALREADY THERE. Its a combination buff.

Clerics have Aego, which includes their HP1 line, AC line, and Symbol.
Shamans have Focus, EoT and EotW, which, with these 3 buffs, it buffs CHA, HP, AC, AGI, DEX, STA, & STR. They also have buffs that only buff one stat... According to your faulty logic, each one of these should stack with the combo buffs.

Very similarly, Enchanters have combo buffs which combine multiple spell lines into one. +mana and +ft lines get combined into KEI/JB, which is wonderful, and saves your buff slots. Maybe you're not doing much content where you end up having 18 people around to kill a mob, but those buff slots are precious.

Why do you want to waste your own buff slots when you already have that buff inserted into another buff?

 

[Nekkor]

Hm... perhaps I'm not making my point clear enough.

I understand that KEI combines both a mana buff and a regen component (as I have stated a few times - but, just in case you missed it, there it is. Again.). I also understand that Enchanters and other classes have a variety of 'combination' buffs (repeated again, for the benefit of those who may have missed it earlier).

My point is that we were given another buff - GoB - along with KEI, almost voiding GoB of use. Now, I know what KEI does.

Just in case someone missed it - I know what KEI does.

One more time? Very well. I know what KEI does.

That being said, why bother giving us another mana buff spell at that level when the only class that will ever use it is a Necromancer? I'm not against having spells that benefit other classes more directly than others, but it seems utterly pointless to give us GoB at the same time as KEI, when the benefit of GoB is almost moot. So if everyone has their panties in a twist about (*gasp!*) making them stack, why not lower the level required for GoB so upcoming Enchanters will actually find some use for it before getting KEI?

 

[Aaubert]

why not lower the level required for GoB so upcoming Enchanters will actually find some use for it before getting KEI?

because no one cares about level 59 enchanters. you're ignoring the argument that you have absolute buttloads of situational spells that you'll only use once in a blue moon. Thats your class. Stop thinking of it as, "we have this spell thats worthless in all but this situation, think of it instead as "we have this spell thats of use to us, even in this obscure situation."

trust me...you really don't want to make this game any more simple. Every time I cast level 65 haste, over 1/2 of my raid clicks it off. Every time I cast level 65 mana regen, all the pure melees click it off. If I cast MR, everyone out of spell range clicks it off.

Your buffs aren't universal. Stop thinking of that as a problem.

 

[Nekkor]

You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make. However, instead of repeating myself - again - I'll just kindly ask you to re-read what I wrote in hopes of you understanding what it is I'm getting at.

 

[Thinkmeats]

You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make. However, instead of repeating myself - again - I'll just kindly ask you to re-read what I wrote in hopes of you understanding what it is I'm getting at.

You're thinking about this backwards. Whatever the original intent, as it stands today GoB is not really it's own spell; rather, it's "oh hey kei doesnt stack with lich but it has this mana pool component, let's add in a seperate spell that lets you cast it on necros". That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. GoB doesn't have to go down in level and kei sure doesn't have to go up in level (there's an enchanter lynch mob ready to bang down your door for even suggestin that :O ). They're both fine where they are because they both fill a useful role.

Additionally, asking "why not do X or Y?" isn't a valid argument in and of itself--you have to provide some tangible benifit. Classes are balanced against each other, but individual spells are not; there's no law that says Torment of Argili must be exactly as useful as Boltran's A., for example. I know that GoB isn't a superstar, but it's handy enough to cast and own. Enchanters' ability to buff is fine at the levels where they have GoB. Therefor, there's no reason to change the spell.

 

[Nekkor]

You're thinking about this backwards. Whatever the original intent, as it stands today GoB is not really it's own spell; rather, it's "oh hey kei doesnt stack with lich but it has this mana pool component, let's add in a seperate spell that lets you cast it on necros". That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. GoB doesn't have to go down in level and kei sure doesn't have to go up in level (there's an enchanter lynch mob ready to bang down your door for even suggestin that :O ). They're both fine where they are because they both fill a useful role.

Additionally, asking "why not do X or Y?" isn't a valid argument in and of itself--you have to provide some tangible benifit. Classes are balanced against each other, but individual spells are not; there's no law that says Torment of Argili must be exactly as useful as Boltran's A., for example. I know that GoB isn't a superstar, but it's handy enough to cast and own. Enchanters' ability to buff is fine at the levels where they have GoB. Therefor, there's no reason to change the spell.

I never suggested KEI need go up a level; that's rediculous. It would have made more sense to take GoB down a few levels, so that everyone could benefit from it a little more before KEI came along.

If this spell's sole purpose is to give Necro's something to enjoy, then I guess my entire argument is moot anyway. I personally think that's a little rediculous, but if that's the way it's been designed, me suggesting otherwise won't do much.

 

[Thinkmeats]

Oops, that was Dzillon that suggested that. My bad. And as for how it was designed, it was the same thing on live. We didn't really fiddle with it.

 

[Nekkor]

Oops, that was Dzillon that suggested that. My bad. And as for how it was designed, it was the same thing on live. We didn't really fiddle with it.

Then that was poor planning on their part, in my honest and totally unbiased opinion. :haw:

I never played an enchanter that high on live, and I never really paid attention to their spells either, so I wasn't aware the situation was the same. I guess I can't pile all of the blame on you guys.

But you won't consider lowering GoB's spell level at all? I think it would go a long way towards helping lower level Enchanters.

 

[Dzillon]

That being said, why bother giving us another mana buff spell at that level when the only class that will ever use it is a Necromancer?

The spell is Gift of Brillance ; necros are brillant , nuff said.

GoB doesn't have to go down in level and kei sure doesn't have to go up in level (there's an enchanter lynch mob ready to bang down your door for even suggestin that :O )

Yes I assume I suggested that and I'm eagerly waiting for all you sissy chanties to come get some ! KEI should even be removed from the spell list mwahaha

Well ehm kk I'll calm down, I'm no chanter , I shouldn"t even have spoken here in first place anyway.

Otherwise Shout of Agony (AE Stun w/ huge aggro) is absolutely not ENC only but that's out of topic...and plz Aauby whatever, don't be aggressive on this poor chanter really , he has a good point on GoB even if no one cares about it. At same level for clerics Aegolism and BoA are the same level, but they both give the same benefits and have very dfifferent costs (both in terms of mana and components). GoB and KEI have the same effects but in very different proportions.
It's really no big deal, but for pure coherence they might be reviewed in terms of casting level (my FIRST suggestion putting GoB a few levels sooner to prevent whining) and/or similarity (I mean making KEI a groupwide GoB) but I doubt it's the intention of the staff. It's not because it was like that on Live that it should be Totally Converted at all costs. Anyway I'm not asking for any change.

Look at D&D and all those useless spells you can have in a spellbook srsly ! be happy this one spell makes necroes happy IMO.

 

[Harziel]

Correct me if I'm wrong.... but wasn't KEI a dropped spell in live?
Which was why GoB was more in use.
Over here KEI is a 500pp spell isn't it?
I could be wrong but... the only real diff from live was that SoD made it easier to get instead of having to camp your level 60 spells.
Aegolism also follows this path.... was a dropped spell etc etc.... same level as Symbol of Marzin which makes me wonder why i bought the bloody spell for my bot.....

Anyways simplifying my point...

KEI
Live = Dropped semi rare spell in kunark.
SoD = Vendor sold more readily avail.

GoB
Live = Vendor bought ( i think, don't quote me)
SoD = Vendor bought.

*shrug* Not to be a negative nancy but I guess we're lucky we don't have to camp our 60 spells other than farming the cash for it.

 

[Aaubert]

Then that was poor planning on their part, in my honest and totally unbiased opinion. :haw:

I never played an enchanter that high on live, and I never really paid attention to their spells either, so I wasn't aware the situation was the same. I guess I can't pile all of the blame on you guys.

But you won't consider lowering GoB's spell level at all? I think it would go a long way towards helping lower level Enchanters.

you have yet to address my question about situational spells. Nekkor, if you want to make GoB more commonly used, you're taking another tool out of the chanter's swiss army knife of spells. Its a specific spell for very specific occasions, just like buttloads of other chanter spells.


As far as lowering the spell level... why? if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Aaubert]

Otherwise Shout of Agony (AE Stun w/ huge aggro) is absolutely not ENC only but that's out of topic...

Agreed. no one said it was.

and plz Aauby whatever, don't be aggressive on this poor chanter really , he has a good point on GoB even if no one cares about it.

No he doesn't. He has a warped view of what the class is, and considers it faulty that this spell doesn't fit his view.

At same level for clerics Aegolism and BoA are the same level, but they both give the same benefits and have very dfifferent costs (both in terms of mana and components). GoB and KEI have the same effects but in very different proportions.

please, come to the US and share some of that euro-weed you're smoking. because obviously its doing amazing stuff to you.

First off, relic aego and non-relic have the same component cost.

secondly, i never compared Relic and Non-relic. Back on live, when the game first started, they basically made a buff for every stat. Before long, there came a crisis of buff slots. So they started combining buffs into combination buffs. At level 60, the cleric +AC line, +HP line, and symbol line of spells all got lumped together into Aegolism, which buffs AC, HP and gives symbol HPs, but isntead of sucking up 3 slots, only eats 1. Same situation with KEI. Instead of 2 separate +mana and +ft spells, they got combinationed into KEI, which buffs both. So now, nekky wants this spell that is already included in KEI to be castable on top of KEI, because in his world, it doesn't make sense.

It's really no big deal, but for pure coherence they might be reviewed in terms of casting level (my FIRST suggestion putting GoB a few levels sooner to prevent whining) and/or similarity (I mean making KEI a groupwide GoB) but I doubt it's the intention of the staff.

KEI already is groupwide GoB. I'm shocked, amazing, appalled, and slightly impressed that you managed to read all of this thread and not understand that.

no staff who works with spells has ever, for a second, considered changing the level of this spell, and never will.

 

[Dzillon]

OK so we agree, good.

And I havent smoked weed lately cause it's very bad in Europe atm, with silicium poured with it to make it heavier and kill your lung quicker
So I haven't talked about relic aego , but the two LVL 60 aegos (Aego and BoA, didn't take into account the symbols and other HP or AC buffs) aego taking 500 mana and 1 dot for single, BoA taking 2000 mana and 3 dots for group (according to the spell parser, come flame me now if it's wrong :s ) ; both give 200AC and 1150 HP.
I was making a parallel with GoB and KEI which have totally different effects (like mana regen 2 vs 14 and raw mana 150 vs 350.
THAT'S ALL you're fucking aggressive geez. Anyway you're gonna be right with next post , but keep in mind we agree on the matter.

 

[rab]

KEI already is groupwide GoB.

Hardly. I don't have the spellfile handy, but GoB is something like 2 mana a tick and 150 mana. KEI is 14 mana a tick and 350 mana. (JB is 18 mana a tick and 450 mana).

Ideally, GoB:KEI::Aegolism:Blessing of Aegolism, but it's pretty far from that.

 

[Allielyn]

But if you made GoB into a single target cast-like KEI by giving it 14 mana/tick and 350 mana, then it would be overpowered to cast on Necros (hence why KEI doesn't stack with lich), and it would therefore be a nerf to the versatility of enchanters. (OR like Aauby said, "you're taking another tool out of the chanter's swiss army knife of spells").