Druid Pet vs Beastlord pets 54-58

[Gooses]

I Feel this post is more whine then any legitimate problem , The pet is NOT anywhere near as good as your making it out to be , even with buffs, and its usefulness quickly falls short each level farther from 54.

 

[excuseme]

I Feel this post is more whine then any legitimate problem , The pet is NOT anywhere near as good as your making it out to be , even with buffs, and its usefulness quickly falls short each level farther from 54.

Well, I would imagine that if you were a beastlord who has grouped with a druid from levels 50-62, and has seen the things I write about, you might feel a little bit differently. Btw, it's level 55, not 54, and its usefulness doesnt "quickly" fall short.

But that's ok, you also mentiuoned something that has been brought up: how the effectiveness falls off with each successive level. Yet nobody seemed to notice when I suggested doing the same thing for the beastlord, even though I thought it would be a good way to illustrate why I think this is poor rationalization.

 

[Tempus]

You are failing to listen.

1) The beastlord pet is better.

2) You can't just say a druid has a better "package" then a beastlord when both have very different strengths and weaknesses.

3) You can't base the argument off of incorrect assumptions of the pet power and package strengths.

 

[Gooses]

Unless you have a 55+ druid of your own and have the proper experience to make your claims.

Even at 57 i almost never use my bear unless its to kill greens.

 

[excuseme]

You are failing to listen.

1) The beastlord pet is better.

The beastlord pet has better stats and more HP. You said it, and I believe you. The taunting still has me puzzled, though.

2) You can't just say a druid has a better "package" then a beastlord when both have very different strengths and weaknesses.

I can't? I created and described a specific scenario, and just about every way I could think about throwing in a variable, the druid would still handle the situation better. How am I supposed to compare one class to another, over a specific level range, with both classes using their pets in combat? Or is that my flaw: I'm not *supposed* to, because when the decision was made to beef up the druid pet, it was already determined that all was fine?

3) You can't base the argument off of incorrect assumptions of the pet power and package strengths.

Where did I make incorrect assumptions of the pet power? Both pets have stats that can be looked at, but both classes buff their pets, don't they? And both classes would heal their pet, woudn't they? Or are those incorrect assumptions?


Let's talk about strengths and weaknesses of a 55 druid with his 55 pet, both are buffed. And with a 56 beastlord and his pet, both are buffed. Each have average gear for their level, and compared to each other. No AA's. Put each of them into the same situation. Any number of different and unique situations. I am not seeing the weaknesses or disadvantages of the druid. Since you play one, please enlighten me. In your opinion, will the beastlord and the druid handle each situation equally (or split 50/50)? I really don't think so.

 

[Azeth]

you're making these claims in regards to the capabilities of each class as if Beastlords and Druids are mirror images of one another. For example, if Shadowknights start whining about Paladins gaining some ability that gives them a + over SK's then that's a fair complaint. However, druids and beastlords aren't polar opposites, but are hardly comparable. Druids are designed to be self sufficient, and therefore they can take care of their pets better (with buffs, better heals etc). That is not to say that the druid is a better class than the Beastlord. Beastlords were designed as minor buff/dps/slight heal/monk traits etc.. I mean you're so different from the druid class it's not even funny. Actually the only things you have in common are pets/weak heals/ and SoW.

If any of this reply annoyed you, that was not my intention. I'm simply pointing out that the classes are very different, and therefore are capable of different things. Your pet has better DPS, and druids can better heal their pets. Just the way it is, and the way it was designed.

 

[excuseme]

you're making these claims in regards to the capabilities of each class as if Beastlords and Druids are mirror images of one another. For example, if Shadowknights start whining about Paladins gaining some ability that gives them a + over SK's then that's a fair complaint. However, druids and beastlords aren't polar opposites, but are hardly comparable. Druids are designed to be self sufficient, and therefore they can take care of their pets better (with buffs, better heals etc). That is not to say that the druid is a better class than the Beastlord. Beastlords were designed as minor buff/dps/slight heal/monk traits etc.. I mean you're so different from the druid class it's not even funny. Actually the only things you have in common are pets/weak heals/ and SoW.

If any of this reply annoyed you, that was not my intention. I'm simply pointing out that the classes are very different, and therefore are capable of different things. Your pet has better DPS, and druids can better heal their pets. Just the way it is, and the way it was designed.

I'm not annoyed. I'm saying that I think the druid, specifically from 55-59, where I feel I am most qualified to comment on, is much more powerful PvE than a beastlord of equivalent level. And I don't think the beastlord pet has better DPS when the druid pet will have a DS on it. I just think the druid should not be able to summon a pet, and buff it, and then whip up on mobs in a manner that is superior to a pet class like a beastlord. And not just for 1 level, but for about 5.

 

[calaran]

Several people have already mentioned that the classes are different.. have different strengths... but since that doesn't seem to register...

In those same levels you list, both Rogues and Warriors are much worse soloers than Beastlords. Beastlords can do melee damage, as can Rogues and Warriors... given that similarity, I think it's unfair that Beastlords can heal, buff, slow, and summon a pet. Maybe we should give weaker pet, heals, buffs and slows to Warriors and Rogues, so that they would be the same class as Beastlords.

 

[Raherin]

He's moreso suggesting that druid shouldn't be able to take into the summoning role so strongly. Not comparing two opposite classes and saying they should be the same.

 

[calaran]

Right... But I think several relatively credible people have weighed in saying that the Druid pet is really not THAT overwhelming. Good for the level you get it, sure... but I don't know that this really means the ability needs to be nerfed all-together.

I really have no stake in this, and should have stayed out of it... sorry I stuck my nose in, it just seemed like the point people were making about not being able to compare 2 dissimilar classes was not taking hold. BSTs have significant melee abilities that a Druid will never have, slows, and various other abilities... just like Druids have an array of abilities the BST will never get. The fact that Druids get a pet that is incredibly useful for a level or two, and of minor use beyond that, doesn't seem all that unbalancing to me.

But, as I said, I have little to no stake in this, and I'm not the authority as to what is and is not unbalancing... just seems like the same 'ol "This class can do something my class is specialized in decently and that's not fair!" whining. As a Cleric, I guess I could be upset that other classes have rez's and complete heals, while having a ton of utility too... but I realize that I'm still the master of certain things, and even if some other class gets a decent ability to do something, chances are, in the end, I will be better than them at it.

Not to go off on a completely different tangent, but several classes are tied for the best slows in the game here on SoD... Slows were a defining ability for at least one other class on Live, and are no longer as much since there are other classes that can do it... The basic fact is that classes are different, and may not be balanced at each and every single level, but I don't think you can/should attempt to 100% balance and reconcile each and every class at each and every level.

 

[excuseme]

He's moreso suggesting that druid shouldn't be able to take into the summoning role so strongly. Not comparing two opposite classes and saying they should be the same.

Thanks Raherin, that is exactly what I was trying to get across.

Handoff to you now: Calaran's in this thread now, so I am out of it. : )

 

[calaran]

He's moreso suggesting that druid shouldn't be able to take into the summoning role so strongly. Not comparing two opposite classes and saying they should be the same.

Thanks Raherin, that is exactly what I was trying to get across.

Handoff to you now: Calaran's in this thread now, so I am out of it. : )

No need; I'll get back out of your thread. I didn't realize our existence in threads was mutually exclusive.

 

[Tempus]

He's moreso suggesting that druid shouldn't be able to take into the summoning role so strongly. Not comparing two opposite classes and saying they should be the same.

Rah, he is qualifying this statement by using a class comparison. We have established that the beastlord pet is better, but he claims because of the druid buffs and heals that the druid pet then becomes more powerful. That is a discussion of class abilities, and one that is mitigated by the fact he too can have his pet buffed by a druid and receive the same benefits.

 

[Ectomancer]

Even with that final statement, I dont believe you have yet made your case. You say that the Druid is positively more powerful, but you seem to be basing that entirely upon your *fact* that the Druid pet taunts better. How about providing more data? Is that Druid able to solo a mob you cant? What mob is it? Some classes are better at taking down certain types of mobs. Have you tried to find a mob you can solo that the Druid cant? What about down time? How many trash mobs can the Druid go through before having to med? How many can you go through? Is the Druid able to handle more mobs at once than you?
There are endless variables to consider in class balance, and right now you havent convinced me that there is a need for rebalancing at all between Druids and Beastlords. Your argument is far too narrow in scope. It would be akin to me asking for balancing between Beastlords and Rogues based upon the mobs that we can each solo.

 

[Nuncio]

What has to be asked, is just what, exactly, the Druid pet is supposedly 'better' for in this narrow range of levels he is claiming it's better for.
Is it better for soloing? For grouping? Raiding? If it's better for soloing, let's face it, the druid NEEDS the pet to taunt, since they have little to no tanking ability themselves, unlike Bsts. Or for groups? How? Is it more DPS? Because in a group setting, your pet shouldnt be tanking anyway. It's for DPS. In a raid? I'm pretty sure not, as a decent AOE from the mob will destroy the druid pet far earlier than the BSTS pet, making the DPS of the BST pet far greater, even if they did the SAME DPS, which I don't think they do.

There is one area in which he claims the druid pet is better. That is, if only the druid and the bst are grouped with no other members, and then only for 4 levels. And how long are the druid and BST going to remain at that level? I wouldn't expect for long.

I don't see this as a problem except in the tiniest fraction of the state in which he's complaing exist. That is, bst and druid duoing for levels 54 to 58.
A non-issue, really.

 

[Raherin]

The only reason the druid pet is taking agro, is because during these levels (55-58) the druid's pet has more, and then equal attack as the beastlord pet (very, very little more, by the way. Basically equal). Given the beast pet has a proc, the druid pet is still going to steal agro from time to time. I'm pretty sure this is the <only> reason people are thinking the druid pet is 'better'. It's not.

This is only a few levels, and I'm fairly sure there is no reason to create another druid pet summon spell, or weaken the druid pet as it's very, very weak at level 65.

 

[Allielyn]

The only reason the druid pet is taking agro, is because during these levels (55-58) the druid's pet has more, and then equal attack as the beastlord pet (very, very little more, by the way. Basically equal). Given the beast pet has a proc, the druid pet is still going to steal agro from time to time. I'm pretty sure this is the <only> reason people are thinking the druid pet is 'better'. It's not.

Even so, comparing the beastlord as a Pet Class vs. a druid as a Non-Pet Class, should they even be remotely equal? Perhaps slightly nerfing the druid pet (or at least, the pet's atk, which is what you're saying is the root of the problem) and then adding in the current strength pet at a higher level might be in order. However, the powers that be may decide that it's not worth the trouble for something that irons itself out in a few levels.

 

[Raherin]

The beastlord pet is still far superior...


I've said already:

Level 54 beastlord pet: Over 1k hps more than the druid pet - even stats

1k hps, is <<<alot>>> more. And should make the pet overall better.


The druid pet seems better because it's attack is the same - thus it'll steal agro frequently, plus with sucessful taunts.

I don't really see much more evidence needed than this. The beastlord pet is already far superior.


I bet if /pet taunt off worked, this thread wouldn't have even been made.

 

[Sanyia]

This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting in it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue arguing forever just because...

 

[Allielyn]

I bet if /pet taunt off worked, this thread wouldn't have even been made.

I've suspected this for some time, but I haven't ever seen solid confirmation. Is this indeed the case, that /pet taunt off doesn't work? Or are you just assuming that the druid mentioned in the thread didn't use it?