Dragon in Mielich
- Thread starter Danku
- Start date
syduck:Danku said:
As I recall, not all tier 1/2 mobs were made no drop. If you want to raid Mielich, raid him. When you're done with his loot, you can give it to a guild mate, sell it, put it on an alt. I really see no real reason for Mielich's loot to be made no drop, the lower tiers seem to be pretty well populated by mobs these days - let the farmers share this one.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
We left Mielech and big daddy T's stuff droppable because we figured the lowbie guilds wouldn't farm them even if given uncontested access. I just don't see anyone getting enough cojones to go after daddy T, and Mielech is so far removed from the beaten path that it's very unlikely anyone will chase him down.
This isn't to give farmers any benifit, they already have more than enough variety. It's simply that, without farming, the mobs would never be killed at all.
This isn't to give farmers any benifit, they already have more than enough variety. It's simply that, without farming, the mobs would never be killed at all.
Allielyn
*Pony*
It has always been the case that raid mobs in dungeon like zones are very very rarely actually hit by raids. It's just not usually worth the headache for any up and coming raid to actually take the time to drag an 18 man force through most raid dungeons. As a result, it's been general policy to try an make easy-access low tier mobs have NO DROP tags, and difficult-access low tier mobs have droppable loot. This way farmers still have targets, but they have to work a little harder for them. And entry level guilds still have targets they can get an entire raid to quickly and efficiently enough to make the kill worth the effort.
For examples, see: Teratzu, Ancient Deepfiend pre- and post- former droppable changes.
For examples, see: Teratzu, Ancient Deepfiend pre- and post- former droppable changes.
Spiritplx
Dalayan Elder
You can raid First Ruins too, but mostly people one group it for the loot. Same can be said about HHK. I think deep MielC (dragon himself) is pretty hard to duo/group unless your gear is higher end. I think these zones are the "high end" money zones. Guilds do not go farm pp, but rather dual boxes or a group of friends.
Danku said:
I don't want to sound angry when I say this, but you just made an extremely ignorant statement, considering that your experience in the high-end is limited at best. Firstly, there is one zone that can be farmed effectively only by tier 5+ guilds, and that's First Ruins. I'd also argue that with a skilled group of players wielding only droppable/low raid gear this is possible. Considering that FR has been farmed to the teeth by good ol' Zhak, gear from the zone is incredibly abundant and cheap.
Second, the only way for people to realistically farm money for a charm or tailored items (excluding doing tradeskills) is to get a group together (or in rare cases a duo) and go farm a named with droppable loot, and then sell it. (Exceptions to this include Highkeep and First Ruins, who have multiple nameds with multiple loot chances). With more and more mobs having their loot become nodrop (As was the case with Plaguefang, Fluxator, and others), higher tiered characters like myself have been bottlenecked into farming stuff that has droppable gear. Since there are maybe two or three named mobs at tiers 1-2, it's a very farmed market.
Third, since money drops have become nearly nonexistant compared to the past, we are almost required to farm items. Aisling used to farm cyclops gorge daily, and pull 5K out of there in only a couple hours. Now that raw plat drops have been nerfed into oblivion, it's insanely difficult to make a substantial amount of money quickly. The only zone I know of in the game that can drop an insane amount of platinum per kill is Prison, which you (usually) need a raid for. Thus, making farming the mobs for their cash drops null and void (unless everyone passes and gives the money to you, which is unlikely).
A solution to your farming problem would be to up cash drops considerably, to what they were before nerfs (i.e. around the time relics were made no-drop). I'm talking about exclusive and out of the way farm spots like the giants in Sea of Swords. They used to drop diamonds and 60+ platinum per kill, and now drop gems like malachite and less than 5 platinum. That, I believe, would solve the problem of overfarming of items, and keep droppable raid gear for the people who actually want to raid the mobs that drop it.
ryutakin
Dalayan Beginner
At best grouping for money isnt the ebst idea for most people. Even if you have an easily assembled group there is no guarentee that your item will drop and if it does drop you have no idea if it's going to you or not. There's only so many places where you can get a decent raw plat split at the end aswell. Farming for charms is getting only that much harder.
Danku
Dalayan Beginner
Draxx said:
Yeah, my experience is limited. I am speaking in the realm of my own experience though, I am not trying to speak to yours. There was a sweetly done farm job just wrapping on DFS last night as my group came there to kill for some fun.
See, what I am getting out of this is that the problem is not at my level, first few raid tiers. The problem is that the higher tiered guilds cannot make money elsewhere at a rate they find satisfactory. I honestly do not know what to suggest to fix all of it. There is a base problem here and with server population of newer characters coming in, I am seeing more pressure on more people.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Quote time!
For the first, not so: FR can be farmed effectively by anyone. The zone isn't nearly as hard as you lot make it out to be. It's a long series of straightforward fights with a decent pile of hp and dps behind them--nothing more.
For the second, "exceptions" also include Kedge, Everchill, RSM, Fire Grotto, Rust, and a shitload of others. In fact, the people who farm money exclusively via killing raid mobs with droppable loot are themselves the exception, with dungeon nameds benig the rule. Their lazy and stratless loot-gobbling went from slow to slower and I do hear thier pleas, I just don't really care. Those mobs were never intended for farming and have never been necessary for getting rich.
This pretty much just wrong on all counts. Maybe you're just not hitting the right places? Also, the problem with your idea is that is those exclusive, out of the way places are boring beyond words and make for shitty gameplay experiences.
The problem is that many of the 'higher tiered guilds' are lazy and would rather make money by killing the same cylcopses / tier 2 mobs over and over again. Contrary to popular belief, being in a tier 5000 guild alone is not enough to guarantee you a good charm, and being in a tier -10 guild doesn't force you to have a bad one. If you don't understand markets or you don't try to find a niche to call your own or etc etc etc, you will have a hard time making a billion million plat. If you do understand how markets work and you find some niche that others aren't farming, you can get a pretty swanky charm despite being in a low-tier guild. These are both good things and all the thaz tower tears in the world won't make me want to change them.
Draxx said:
For the first, not so: FR can be farmed effectively by anyone. The zone isn't nearly as hard as you lot make it out to be. It's a long series of straightforward fights with a decent pile of hp and dps behind them--nothing more.
For the second, "exceptions" also include Kedge, Everchill, RSM, Fire Grotto, Rust, and a shitload of others. In fact, the people who farm money exclusively via killing raid mobs with droppable loot are themselves the exception, with dungeon nameds benig the rule. Their lazy and stratless loot-gobbling went from slow to slower and I do hear thier pleas, I just don't really care. Those mobs were never intended for farming and have never been necessary for getting rich.
Draxx said:
This pretty much just wrong on all counts. Maybe you're just not hitting the right places? Also, the problem with your idea is that is those exclusive, out of the way places are boring beyond words and make for shitty gameplay experiences.
Danku said:
The problem is that many of the 'higher tiered guilds' are lazy and would rather make money by killing the same cylcopses / tier 2 mobs over and over again. Contrary to popular belief, being in a tier 5000 guild alone is not enough to guarantee you a good charm, and being in a tier -10 guild doesn't force you to have a bad one. If you don't understand markets or you don't try to find a niche to call your own or etc etc etc, you will have a hard time making a billion million plat. If you do understand how markets work and you find some niche that others aren't farming, you can get a pretty swanky charm despite being in a low-tier guild. These are both good things and all the thaz tower tears in the world won't make me want to change them.
Spiritplx
Dalayan Elder
Thinkmeats said:
I have to disagree with this just based on the fact that FR is never camped by just anyone, but only people who can do it effectively. Sure, you can take a group of 65s with sub 100 AAs and tier1/2 gear, but they will take a long time to get to any named, and will probably wipe a few times before beating said named. This may be your definition of effective, but it is not mine.
I think Draxx was trying to point out that since there are not many mobs at all (maybe Cyc. Gorge and a few other giant camps) that drop actual platinum drops, that many people in the high end resort to farming nameds that drop sellable gear. This in turn causes posts like this of people who complain about high end players taking their lower tiered raid targets.
I never had the luxury of awesome pp drop rates and easily farmed nameds, but I can see why Draxx is saying that many players farm these nameds due to the lack of money making schemes in today's Dalaya.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Spiritplx said:
Except that the "awesome pp drop rates" have been gone a long time, and haven't existed since waaaay back in the day in like tov. FR isn't camped because it's not worth it anymore and because players are skittish, but you could take that group of 65s with dumpy AAs and gear, get a ringer tank, park them on a named and have them farm it every time it spawns with only a few wipes. It's *hard*, but it's certainly doable. And that's a pretty big jump you made from "resort to farming nameds" to "taking their lower tiered raid targets", because the vast, vast, vast majority of nameds with droppable loot are *dungeon* names and not raid nameds. This is so because players aren't supposed to be able to make any kind of meaningful living just by ganking all the tier 1-2 mobs that tier 1-2 guilds are too :what: to invis down and kill.
To reiterate: Not everyone is "supposed" to have a good charm. Who can afford charms is not even a balance issue. Saying "it's too hard to make money for charms" is a lot like saying "I think all players should do 10x as much damage and all monsters should have 10x the hp". It's meaningless gibberish. Charms are a plat sink first and last. They take plat from the economy, that's all.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
I should clarify that I'm not at all against better money camps like the cyclops one existing, I just don't think they should be at all a main option for level 65 characters. They should be the kind of thing you do in your 50s for extra bones, or idly while you wait for raids, or somesuch.
Spiritplx
Dalayan Elder
All I am saying is that if there a mob that has good sellable loot and can be duo'ed or one grouped (4.5 day spawn OR ph spawn) it will be farmed for platinum. I don't see anything wrong with this unless it is a mob that you just port to and kill. Seeing as how the dragon needs cleared to, this should not even be an issue.
I know the pp drop rates were nerfed long ago, and I am not complaining about the pp drop rates or charm funds as I think I get pp at a decent rate, but I don't think people should be frustrated when higher end people take mobs that have good loot to sell.
And yes FR is a very straight forward zone, but that doesn't necessarily make it out to be an easy one.
I know the pp drop rates were nerfed long ago, and I am not complaining about the pp drop rates or charm funds as I think I get pp at a decent rate, but I don't think people should be frustrated when higher end people take mobs that have good loot to sell.
And yes FR is a very straight forward zone, but that doesn't necessarily make it out to be an easy one.