Dev Dread Megathread

Rorne

Rorne

The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
Hello and sorry in advance to the devs. The point of this thread is for players to bring to light game issues they feel have been unnoticed or overlooked up until this point, I mean topic-wise it is pretty open but if you come into this thread and you're like "X class is better than my class cause I am an imbecile and here is some hyperbole" I will descend upon you like.. well, think of the cover of Bat out of Hell but I'm way more imposing than Meatloaf and also I guess I'm going downwards instead of upwards. Basically I will just kill you
if you post your dumb shit in this thread. You people know who you are.

Now lets get down to business

ENCHANTER

Blissful Apathy (enc 52)
Mana cost:130
Cast time:2.5 seconds
Resist adjust: -25
Duration: 16 ticks
Effect: Mez up to level 60

VS

Glamour of Kintaz (enc 54)
Mana cost:125
Cast time:2.5 seconds
Resist adjust: -10
Duration: 9 ticks
Effect: Mez up to level 56

I imagine an innocent enchanter buying up his level 54 spells. Glamour of Kintaz is scribed and he begins casting it, suddenly his eyes widen and he begins to bleed out of every orifice - finally melting into a steaming pile goo as the paradox of a spell from two levels earlier being superior in every way hits him. Really the only thing Glamour of Kintaz has going for it is that it's 5 less mana and has a name that wasn't picked by a teenage goth.


BEASTLORD

Yekan's Recovery (bst 39)
Mana cost:125
Cast time:3 seconds
Range: 100
Effect: heal for 580(L39) to 583(L40), Decrease disease counter by 10

VS

Aid of Khurenz (bst 52)
Mana cost:125
Cast time:2.5 seconds
Range: 200
Effect: heal for 434(L52) to 437(L59), Decrease disease counter by 10

This one is a not as solid a case. Here we have two spells with a 12 level divide on the same cooldown. The main benefit of the successor Aid of Khurenz is the half a second less cast time and double the range. Now is this enough to make up for doing 146 less raw hp in healing? Well that is a great question and I am glad you asked me because no, I really don't think so, but since we're not operating on just opinions in this thread you can crunch the numbers and see that by cast 3 Yekan's begins to overtake Aid really making it a headscratcher why a spell 12 levels later is performing so poorly.

Reagents
Oh reagents. We've probably all used spells that take reagents. You want to cast aegolism on your traek alt so you can get him his 200th AA but first you have to go through the painful process of obtaining the peridots. So you stomp your feet as you load up some mage from god knows where and you completely bypass a real stupid obstacle that is completely trivial to anyone that has mage info or is really good at harassing a mage online. So I have to ask. What-is-the-point-of-reagents. I can understand the point before the prevalence of summoned peridots (I guess...) but this is a strange new world that has utterly and completely trivialized the point of peridots being a reagent for anything and honestly I have to ask, what the hell was the point of spells having reagents in the first place other than for players to be minimally inconvenienced or to maybe plop down a little cash just so they can utilize a part of their class. Pet reagents were done away with and now it's time to be brave and go all the way for a bunch of other spells.

Monk weight penalty
Lets dive right into this one. What's the point. Load up the wiki, look at monk gear weight (I don't care about your wyrmhide, you turd), minimize that page, reread "What's the point" and nod. Beyond the exception of very few instances a monk does not have to forego gear to come in under weight because past a point all the good stuff is lighter than those 80s aerobic dumbbells they marketed to women. If there were trade-offs I could understand it still being around. I'm sure the reason there aren't is due to in part the fact that people who play monks are horrible human beings and also stuff like that pofrost helm thread - but the point stands that the weight limit is a non-issue for anything other than carrying cash or maybe looting in a group WHICH IS RIDICULOUS and I am at a loss to understand why, with that knowledge in hand, we are keeping that dirty little vestigial feature around when all it does is enforce a vow of poverty outside a bank and an obsession with weight reducing bags.


Anyways, go forth and post with logic and reason fellow players.

EDIT: ALSO if you want to argue with a guy for 11 posts about how wrong he is, don't do it here on my turf
 
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Oh I also forgot the spell Fortitude, it exists for nothing more than confusing new clerics!!!!!!!
 
Beastlord: Aid is on a different cooldown timer than the rest of the beast heals. It's less of an upgrade and more of a sidegrade.

Regents: I completely agree about how letting mages summon the regents goes a long way to trivialize it. You didnt even mention regent con.

Monk: I agree it's silly, but don't they get extra AC for being underweight? If it was gone would they still get some bonus AC for nothing?
 
neonovas said:
Beastlord: Aid is on a different cooldown timer than the rest of the beast heals. It's less of an upgrade and more of a sidegrade.
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OOPS I wrote cast time instead of cooldown but those two spells share a cooldown which I think makes it a questionable spell for getting so many levels later.
 
you're right, i just tested Aid and Sha's mending. I loaded up all my heals and it looks like the lv 9/15/30/39/52 heals are on 1 timer and 49/55/64 are on a separate timer.

so yeah that is a pretty odd upgrade
 
Glamour of kintaz is extremely good for mezzing charmed players. But I agree when I got that at 54 or whatever I was pretty effing confused as to why I was dying.
 
Wake of tranquility is a 51 enc / 55 clr aoe pacify spell. I've always like the idea, but its never worked properly as an aoe since you need to be on the mobs hate list for an aoe to land. I've been curious as to whether or not its feasible to code so that when you cast it on a mob, it causes the mob to cast a pbaoe pacify like spell and then a single target version on itself, without putting the enc/clr on the hate list. Or maybe even simpler, to make it an exception to the standard target aoe thing where you need to be on the aggro table for it to land.
 
Descending Judgement (Paladin refuge spell) costs mana per tick of the rain which is quite silly because we are just babby clerics with babby mana.
 
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Paladin murk spell needs a change as it is far too similar and worse than paladin rebel spell.

Descending Judgement (rebel spell)
Mana cost 510
range 150
cast time 1 sec
recast 10 sec
-50 magic res adjust
300 damage 1 sec stun

This spell will rain on 2 targets for 3 waves and will not hit you as long as there are 2 other targets for it to hit.

Cast Judgment (murk spell)
Mana cost 250
range 200
cast time 1.5 sec
recast 24 sec
no resist adjust
250 damage 1 sec stun

This spell hits 3 targets always including you if you are close enough.

I use the rebel spell a fair ammount, never mem the murk spell. It either needs its own niche, perhaps make it a pbaoe with higher target cap than wave of light but on a long recast. The intent of improving multi target agro is good but the spell is just not better in any way than other agro spells.
 
Obscenitor said:
Descending Judgement (Paladin refuge spell) costs mana per tick of the rain which is quite silly because we are just babby clerics with babby mana.
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Turns out this is only the case when a wave lands on you..

And yes I agree with Miffane (unghhhhhhhhhhh.. /seppuku) and literally every other Paladin out there in babby cleric land, there is nothing that the Murk spell does that the Refuge spell can't do better.. faster cast time, resist adjust, shorter cooldown etc.

But this is besides the point.. there aren't many (if any) situations where a mage or wizard pulls aggro on More Than One Mob, which I suppose is the intended utilization of the murk spell.

It would be neat for pulling multiple targets but with the way rains work you have to already have aggro on them for any waves to hit.. and I suppose it could be used to help in kiting but there are not many (one that I can think of) fights that involve kiting where you can damage the mobs and Not Get Summoned.. Also this feat is easily accomplished from old world spells.

It has been mentioned that it is hard to really come up with spells for Paladins that won't make them too strong, especially in regards to aoe aggro / healing capabilities..

With the help of my bffs Otcho and Cinn, here are a couple of ideas to expand on something that is supposed to separate Paladins from the rest of the tanks:

Some sort of raidwide buff (with a duration resembling savagery) that gives the entire raid the ability to crit undead. I feel like this would be an excellent extension as Paladins are almost always placed in melee group for undead mobs anyway so really it picks up the stragglers - tanks, bards, and rangers.

Some sort of single target recourse style buff that when cast on an undead target gives the Paladin mitigation vs. undead that is similar or better to a Warrior or Shadowknight's mitigation on a normal target. This could be in the form of added AC, chance to parry/riposte/dodge, or maybe even a +% increase in heals.

Ideas that aren't as cool and could maybe use some work:

Another spell in the Champion of Althuna line.

Another heal in the Blessing line of self heals that has a much lower base but a much faster cooldown. A self heal like this would help alleviate the mitigation disparity between Paladins and the other tanks that prevent a Paladin from tanking at the high end due to spike damage.
 
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Rorne said:
Reagents
Oh reagents. We've probably all used spells that take reagents. You want to cast aegolism on your traek alt so you can get him his 200th AA but first you have to go through the painful process of obtaining the peridots. So you stomp your feet as you load up some mage from god knows where and you completely bypass a real stupid obstacle that is completely trivial to anyone that has mage info or is really good at harassing a mage online. So I have to ask. What-is-the-point-of-reagents. I can understand the point before the prevalence of summoned peridots (I guess...) but this is a strange new world that has utterly and completely trivialized the point of peridots being a reagent for anything and honestly I have to ask, what the hell was the point of spells having reagents in the first place other than for players to be minimally inconvenienced or to maybe plop down a little cash just so they can utilize a part of their class. Pet reagents were done away with and now it's time to be brave and go all the way for a bunch of other spells.
Click to expand...

If they get rid of Reagents, I would say also give Rangers back Endless Quiver.
 
With regard to the monk weight penalty thing you are incredibly right and it is frequently a topic of dev discussion. That means what it means so don't get all crazy! We just talk about monks and how devs are designing around a class's downside in order to make it not a downside and how this defeats the porpoise.

I did not code a new rain function to screw paladins specifically but also I am not above an action this petty and obvious so who knows.

Reagents CAN make sense, but you are right: in the current form the requirement for reagents is strangely implemented with the only 2 real reagents being pearls and fire opals and now maybe just pearls?? Really weird. This is just a too many cooks thing but I guess we can talk about reasonable reagent implementations.

Those spell imbalances are weird and again are probably related to legacy content and too many cooks.
 
This is a good thread idea though I mean back in the day Volkov would tell me 'yeah that has been broken forever and no one cares' and then I became a dev and I told all the other devs all these things and poof now they are fixed!
 
sorry to triple post (not actually sorry) but the thing about reagents is that to remove them completely leaves yet another empty field in a spell file that is still mostly zeroes and also obviates the utility of reagent conservation an entire focus line! so reasonable implementation of reagents sounds a lot better to me than no reagents ever.
 
Sanyia said:
So true!
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I actually have an idea for the spell Fortitude. Maybe it sucks, I don't know. But something like an alternative version of the bulwark line like:

Fortitude (clr 55)
Mana Cost: Blah
Cast Time: Barf
Target: Self
Duration: Ugh
Effects:
25(L55) to 45(L65) HP regen (or alternately lower numbers if the regeneration could somehow be affected by healing inc)
175 AC
15 sv all

VS

Blessed Armor of the Risen (clr 58)
Effects:
100 AC
300 HP
4 mana regen

So like a more defensive alternative than the normal line but with hp regeneration instead of mana. I imagine SOMEONE(druids) will be tempted to bring up the high amount of hp regen but I mean it's a self buff and you should think of it instead as a very minor hot or repeated light healing for the master of healing and FURTHERMORE regen only helps you when you're hurt so deal w/ it.

Also I would like to say that Aid of Khurenz curing poison instead of disease could give it a nice niche. Even if it was just like 4 counters (half of counteract poison which bst get at 61).

These low level spells probably don't seem very important in the grand scheme but almost everyone encounters them leveling up these classes and some spend an appreciable amount of time around these levels.
 
Rorne said:
I actually have an idea for the spell Fortitude. Maybe it sucks, I don't know. But something like an alternative version of the bulwark line like:

Fortitude (clr 55)
Mana Cost: Blah
Cast Time: Barf
Target: Self
Duration: Ugh
Effects:
25(L55) to 45(L65) HP regen (or alternately lower numbers if the regeneration could somehow be affected by healing inc)
175 AC
15 sv all

VS

Blessed Armor of the Risen (clr 58)
Effects:
100 AC
300 HP
4 mana regen

So like a more defensive alternative than the normal line but with hp regeneration instead of mana. I imagine SOMEONE(druids) will be tempted to bring up the high amount of hp regen but I mean it's a self buff and you should think of it instead as a very minor hot or repeated light healing for the master of healing and FURTHERMORE regen only helps you when you're hurt so deal w/ it.

Also I would like to say that Aid of Khurenz curing poison instead of disease could give it a nice niche. Even if it was just like 4 counters (half of counteract poison which bst get at 61).

These low level spells probably don't seem very important in the grand scheme but almost everyone encounters them leveling up these classes and some spend an appreciable amount of time around these levels.
Click to expand...

Nice idea, I like it. Helpful for younger clerics and, being self only, it would not step on anybody's toes.
 
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