Data, and suggestion for mage R2 pet.

Moraelintz said:
It is a 3% heal when I used it last (over 1 year ago) before I decided it was a useless form.

In the current state I typically run 3 different setups for my pet.

Air base per with fire form. This is for max pet melee against high fire resist mobs.

Fire base pet with air form. This is to maximize spell dps.

Air base pet with water form. I use this on high ae fights to try and help smoothe out heals for the group healer. The heals are melee proc so the innate haste of air form is ideal.

As far as tanking and dps of the pets:
Tanking and mitigation is just laughable. They hAve 0 mitigation.

I think the word of power tomes help bring them into focus on where they probably should be, but a bump in overall dps would probably be a good think maybe 25-40 dps base across the board on r2 maybe a bit more should not break anything and bring things back in order and help with scaling.
Click to expand...

Ya, I know the mitigation of the pets is non existent. What I thought was more interesting is that the relic pet actually prevents incoming damage more than the the earth and fire form of the r2. The main reason the water and air form have lower dmg received is due to the slow, and the stun. If the mob is is stunned, for a few seconds he is not dealing damage. As with the R2, it seems like a lot of the base stats are very similar to the relic pet, just it has 50 % more hp. But, the main thing they nerfed on the r2 pet appeared to be the hp from the original incarnation. I did not have r2 back in the initial, but I am told the hp was very high. Then when they fixed that error in the pet's hp, I know my pet lost 1k (relic at the time). IIRC, Ginger said her pet lost near 2 k. (R2).

I have been thinking about this some more:

What I would want to see, is the r2 pet melees just a little bit harder. Like you suggested Moraelin 25-40 dps just something incrementally more than the relic pet. A bit more hp hp, just so it falls closer to the power jump from level 63 to relic, because hp is basically the metric on how well the pet can tank. Lastly, if any dev is interested, a discussion about the different forms of the r2 pet. It is a shame the earth one is useless. It would be nice if the forms were more deviated from each other. As for the earth pet, if the rates that the pet dodges, parries, and riptose were upped by a couple percentage points each. It would greatly increase his tanking capabilities, but he is the least dps of all 4 pets.
 
I agree that runic 2 mage pets are just barely worth teh trouble at this point after all teh nerfs. But the same feeling goes with just about all pets nowadays. ranger pets that fall over dead when monsters look at them funny. beastlord pets that take as much damage as mage pets but do less then half thier dps with 1.5k less hp. necro pets seem alright but pretty squish, caster version has mana problems but is by far one of the coolest pet ideas.

I think increasing pet hp acrosss the board is in line adn adding a bit of mitigation, along with a slight dps increase to mage pet and beastlords pets and some mana changes to caster necro pet.

Its also upsetting that summon gear ends at t1-3 basically. while the items are amazing and make a huge difference, adding more avenues for pet gearing would be amazing leaps foward if handled correcting.

TL,DR

Increase All Pet base health by 20%
Increase runic 2 mage pet dps by 15%
Give beastlord pets the ability to backstab
Have necromancer Runic 1 pets go into stasis when oom regenerating mana at 500% normal speed, or just have them go form oom to full over the course of a 2-3 mins.
Add pet summon item clickies to progression, expand mage pet summons, add pet gear to bounty hunting rewards.
Give necromancers a pet summon item, Scythe wep with a lifetap?
 
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mechkl said:
I agree that runic 2 mage pets are just barely worth teh trouble at this point after all teh nerfs. But the same feeling goes with just about all pets nowadays. ranger pets that fall over dead when monsters look at them funny. beastlord pets that take as much damage as mage pets but do less then half thier dps with 1.5k less hp. necro pets seem alright but pretty squish, caster version has mana problems but is by far one of the coolest pet ideas.

I think increasing pet hp acrosss the board is in line adn adding a bit of mitigation, along with a slight dps increase to mage pet and beastlords pets and some mana changes to caster necro pet.

Its also upsetting that summon gear ends at t1-3 basically. while the items are amazing and make a huge difference, adding more avenues for pet gearing would be amazing leaps foward if handled correcting.

TL,DR

Increase All Pet base health by 20%
Increase runic 2 mage pet dps by 15%
Give beastlord pets the ability to backstab
Have necromancer Runic 1 pets go into stasis when oom regenerating mana at 500% normal speed, or just have them go form oom to full over the course of a 2-3 mins.
Add pet summon item clickies to progression, expand mage pet summons, add pet gear to bounty hunting rewards.
Give necromancers a pet summon item, Scythe wep with a lifetap?
Click to expand...

Don't forget shaman pets!
 
mechkl said:
I agree that runic 2 mage pets are just barely worth teh trouble at this point after all teh nerfs. But the same feeling goes with just about all pets nowadays. ranger pets that fall over dead when monsters look at them funny. beastlord pets that take as much damage as mage pets but do less then half thier dps with 1.5k less hp. necro pets seem alright but pretty squish, caster version has mana problems but is by far one of the coolest pet ideas.

I think increasing pet hp acrosss the board is in line adn adding a bit of mitigation, along with a slight dps increase to mage pet and beastlords pets and some mana changes to caster necro pet.

Its also upsetting that summon gear ends at t1-3 basically. while the items are amazing and make a huge difference, adding more avenues for pet gearing would be amazing leaps foward if handled correcting.

TL,DR

Increase All Pet base health by 20%
Increase runic 2 mage pet dps by 15%
Give beastlord pets the ability to backstab
Have necromancer Runic 1 pets go into stasis when oom regenerating mana at 500% normal speed, or just have them go form oom to full over the course of a 2-3 mins.
Add pet summon item clickies to progression, expand mage pet summons, add pet gear to bounty hunting rewards.
Give necromancers a pet summon item, Scythe wep with a lifetap?
Click to expand...


More like give Mage Runic 2 and Relic pets, 15% increase to dps (15% more for the Runic2 over the suggested 15% increase to the Relic). Also, Backstab capability to ALL pets lvl 63 and up, increased hit chance when behind what it is attacking, damage mitigation relative to the AC it has on (different scale for a pet, as in not the same as a PC), increase the effectiveness of ALL procs.
 
Some of what I wrote you might scoff at but the truth is the truth. Mage's are the first and for most Conjuration Masters and controllers of elemental forces. Their pets for the most part are still weak and plain and simple crap compared to live. I understand the design of this game, but there are some major issues with developer thought processes when it comes to making sure there is balance in the game pertaining to Mages.

/rant on

Let me share a quick thought when I first started playing SoD. I remember leveling my mage and having fun. But, I noticed a HUGE problem with the pets right away. I also remember getting a root spell at 61 and saying...wow, that must be a compensation for having a pet that dies so quick. I don't remember this in live. Anyway, I understand this isn't live, but some 'nerfs' so to speak, just are crap. I cannot find the words to convey my disappointment in Mage's pets in general....or over all. Every time I think about it I come to a conclusion that there is someone on the dev team if not all admins and devs that feel bias towards the power of the Mage class. I can't find a forum that explains why mage pets were nerfed so much and a explanation why. Even if I do not agree with the explanation, I would at least get an answer.

Again! Mage pet heals....wtf is that? Lame! They should be a 5 second CD. There is NO excuse at all for it being 20 seconds. "It's too powerful" -admin or dev whoever. HOW!? Because it still eats your mana and there is NO mitigation so your pet gets its ass kicked really fast anyway especially after 65 when trying to solo.

Please do not repond to this post if you are going to cry about another class because that is not my target here. I am not trying to offend, I am just saying I understand people want to compare, Necros to Mages or whatever to Mages, but the simple fact is, don't respond to compare and don't respond saying that Mages are already OP because their pet can beat up some other classes pet or do better. Again, that isn't what I am talking about. Thanks for your understanding....

/rant off
 
If you want to compare, repond to this one.

Compare a high tier Mage to a high tier Wizard.
Crit Example 1:
Wizard 3 second cast - Ultimate blast 15+k dmg (I am being VERY HUMBLE)
Mage in 3 second with Pet maybe 6-7k at best.

Someone else with better understanding of high tier BL, Druid, Necros...please respond with your BEST DPS in a 3 to 6 second range.

In my opinion, Mages were supposed to be second to wizards on DPS, ONLY because of thier pets. Necros were up there on DPS because of the DoTs and nukes combo. Druids have some HIGH dmg spells too. BL can do a LOT of dmg, even more than a mage because of awesome weapons and abilities they can get in game. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see BLs in 2nd place on DPS compared to the classes I've listed when you talk about high tier classes and dps comparisons.
 
as it goes at the very top end dps normally goes :
Enchanter
Wizard
Ranger
Mage
Necro
Rogue
Bard
Beastlord (or beastlord then bard if the fight doesn't aoe that makes beast runic 1 useless)

Of course this all depends on the fight you're doing, but in most cases it looks like this.
 
Thank you....

Please...please! Explain. Enchanter? What are you talking about? Are you talking about a charmed pet DPS?
 
mechkl said:
as it goes at the very top end dps normally goes :
Enchanter
Wizard
Ranger
Mage
Necro
Rogue
Bard
Beastlord (or beastlord then bard if the fight doesn't aoe that makes beast runic 1 useless)

Of course this all depends on the fight you're doing, but in most cases it looks like this.
Click to expand...

Could you provied numbers? We talking about say...

Wiz - 10k dps
Ranger - 6k dps
Mage - 2k dps

Could you elaborate some please?
 
Enchanters being incredibly powerful is in the server lore. And that's AoD dps.

Our mages easily out dps me, but our mages are really cool dudes, so that's ok, I guess.
 
enasc said:
Enchanters being incredibly powerful is in the server lore. And that's AoD dps.

Our mages easily out dps me, but our mages are really cool dudes, so that's ok, I guess.
Click to expand...

First! haha! Nice one dude. cool dudes. :p

Ok...so what's AoD dps?
 
Avatar of Destruction, mimic spell dps from the people they cast it on. Pretty game changing spell for enchanters.
 
I could say that I was doing about 15 to 20k dps in DL the other day. So...I was in a group who was just clearing trash right when you enter from prophet's landing. They rounded up about 10 to 15 mobs. I would wait a tick, then ...umm...flamecall? 61 AE spell I think that's what it's called. Anyway it bursts flames out from me and hits everything in an XX range. So my crits were around 2.5k or something and regular were 1.3k.

and casting that over and over....without dying was pretty cool. But my mana pool was drained pretty fast.
 
mechkl said:
as it goes at the very top end dps normally goes :
Enchanter
Wizard
Ranger
Mage
Necro
Rogue
Bard
Beastlord (or beastlord then bard if the fight doesn't aoe that makes beast runic 1 useless)

Of course this all depends on the fight you're doing, but in most cases it looks like this.
Click to expand...

So what I take from all this is monks could use a boost! lol
 
Yeah, it got kind of derailed. But, the main goal was just to give some parse data on the r2 form of the pets. And use that data as a justification for a slight boost in r2 pet dps so it is at least better than relics no matter which form. Also, make a suggestion of why some of the r2's hp needs to be returned because there is no new improvement to mitigation.
 
This is just from a non-mage perspective, and isn't even necessarily directed at this particular thread, but in a lot of these threads specific to a class or groups of classes, a lot of the suggesting gravitates from a balance or fix towards making the class more powerful. I'm sure I'm guilty about doing this to some degree in monk and maybe shaman threads too, but from the perspective of someone who thinks (whether it's a delusional thought or not!) a lot of these classes that end up asking for more are already more powerful than some of the others where it shouldn't necessarily be the case, I often wonder if dev-types read these and take less and less stock in them the more and more the players ask for.

Like, my third character is a wiz. Pre-channeling change (which I never bothered figuring out exactly what changed, but have gotten the impression that most wizards or casters in general consider it a nerf) wizards could destroy other classed in parses, so if a dev sees a thread where a ways into the discussion someone's asking for a third tome that in some way boosts wizard dps, they're probably gonna just continue right past it.

I just say all this because it always seems to me like half the posts in any of these threads don't really take game and class balance into account when, for lack of a better way of putting it, asking for new shit or bigger numbers.

(I read all this stuff, half the time not knowing much about any of it, and in this thread in particular it does sound like a lot of this stuff could use a boost or at least some kind of change. I just point this out, because some of these posts seem like they want to make mages crazy, and imo that's kinda counter-productive to getting someone with the ability to do anything with any of it to take it seriously. Maybe I'm tripping. If so feel free to disregard. Sorry for the semi-derail-continuation, but I kinda felt like it might toss a little reality in for some folks..)
 
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