By asking questions to get it clarified?
Where are the rules that i am circumnavigating, by asking these questions?
(Ewber rewlz #1, § 15: By asking questions about Ewber rewlz #1, your circumnavigating the Ewber rewlz #1!)
Last edited:
Character flags to insure 2/3rd rule.
- Thread starter Snake
- Start date
By asking questions to get it clarified?
Where are the rules that i am circumnavigating, by asking these questions?
(Ewber rewlz #1, § 15: By asking questions about Ewber rewlz #1, your circumnavigating the Ewber rewlz #1!)
robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
the whole concept that the rules are intentionally vague in these ways seems to be completely lost on you and your attempts to understand it look more and more like the "rules lawyering' that this system was implemented to combat, whether that is your intention or not.
the spirit of the rule is that you should not use a single/few keyed/flagged/whatever character(s) to propel a raid full of characters past keyed doors, roadblock mobs, magical barriers, inaccessible teleports etc etc in raid zones.
because people can sometimes be present on content they may not have technically achieved all flags for without foul play, and because doing large swathes of backcontent for the sake of a flag for one member and rot loots for everyone else is boring as shit and detrimental to lower tiered guilds who raid in linear zones, the 2/3 compromise exists, a rule that we hoped would still clearly portray the spirit of the law, as well as putting a definitive limit on how ringered-up a raid can be and still be allowed to raid a zone.
The apparent difficulties that so many people have had with following these relatively simple guidelines are why your well rings no longer work; players could not be trusted to follow the rules without abusing the privilege of the Well ring, and now nobody gets one
Very much so.
Im often the raid leader, so its my responsibility to know the rules, so we don't break them.
So i try very hard to make sure im adjur with the rules, and i make sure that people are told when they are about to break the rules.
Anyone who knows me or raid withs with me, will tell you how i work hard at making sure the rules are kept. We often spend long time kicking out people, and botting in chars with flags, to make sure we upholding the 2/3rd rules.
But now with these vague rules, im not even sure im doing it correctly, cause i really can't figur out this whole "guild flag" thing.
For example, when we killed ToT Lobby, we used toons that are not in the guild (but already flagged in other guild), but was all played by people in the guild. So we hailed 2x Elementals, and i considered all chars now flagged for Djar.
When we enter the Djar wing, i make sure we have aleast 12 flagged people, but they arent all with the same Guild tag. This is cheating?
What if i spot an Elaborate chest up, port up 2 chars that are flagged to Generals, and have guild tag for a guild that has killed Generals, and a 3rd char, who is not flagged to Generals. I pop the chest in Generals and loot it with the non flagged char. This is cheating? (example, i havent been so lucky as to spot an elab up...)
What about the whole OP IP IS issue? Shouldnt you do the same to these clickers as you did to the Well Ring?
What if someone click there OP port, and piggyback in 1 unflagged char, all same guild, all 17 legaly flagged (what ever that means). This 1 unflagged char then loots Taeshlins clicker part, and makes the clicker. Are they cheating?
Dimmi
Dalayan Elder
Pouty faces abound. Your well ring shouldn't even remotely be this big of an issue considering your guild killed Farhanniath last night....well flag is right around the corner.
I'm not surprised or dismayed in the least to see the well ring become a resist piece and nothing more for a lot of people. I've seen people justify using it in unwarranted circumstances because:
-We're going to kill the flare fiend anyway, this just makes it easier.
-I earned it, I should be able to use it, not my fault if the other 17 people hail early.
-There is an elab up and we have to get to it first.
-Nobody will know anyway.
-It's on our guild's botted main tank from <Some Old Dead Guild> that so-and-so gave us to use, so it belongs to the guild.
-We have it, and we CAN beat the well, but we haven't been able to yet becasue <Other Guild> keeps it on lockdown and it's not fair!
None of these are valid. When you are again entitled to the use of your ring, you will have the use of your ring, I am certain. It's right around the corner for you guys anyway. Using your well ring to benefit your guild when your guild hasn't beat the well has been addressed as a violation before anyway. This includes using it to scout, open chests, claim wings, place bots, and skip content.
As far as the OP/IP/Thaz questions go...this is where the intentionally vague rules come into play as a benefit to the staff, and to the player base. Say <New Guild> forms from the remains of <Old Guild>, <Dead Guild>, and <Stale Guild>. <New Guild> gets together and compares where everyone was at progression-wise, then if there's a question about where they are, they can discuss with staff on a case-by-case basis what progression flags they are required to obtain, and which are grandfathered. This way a guild full of 50 AA t-map geared 65s isn't skipping past Sepulcher into CoD, and a guild full of max codex thaz geared folks aren't being required to go do MotG in OP. If a guild has 17 people flagged to port directly to OP and one guy that isn't....I'm sorry, but that's the most rediculous example I've ever seen. Stop being petulent and just go kill the well if it's such a big deal.
EDIT: Mad props to <Oathsworn> who, as far as I know, refused any and all out-of-guild assistance in their raid when killing a progression/flag mob. Really leaves no room for questions.
Last edited:
Yesterday IL dropped the Farhag boss with no outside help, I foolishly asked if I could loot a "Mark of the Tribes" thinking that may clear the problem, well it didnt and now I regret looting it.
I understand why this nerf was done, however from my point of view.
My Mark of the Well / Mark of the Tribe rings are useless.
I can no longer move around a zone I am fully flagged for.
As I have stated before, I play down the line and would never knowingly port people past content, that they have noright to be at. (Its only ToT FFS
) Also I have rehailed 5 different spirits in the past couple of weeks to try and restore my flags, and looted another tribe ring, but to no avail.
In the future I would recommend just stripping a persons ToT flags if deemed necessary, instead of perma nerfing them. Doing it that way would allow them to regain their flags without having to post in a shitcake of a thread such as this. (I still question why it was necessary in the first place)
In closing, I would like to be un-nerfed, I have tried to fix it myself but evidently I cant.
I understand why this nerf was done, however from my point of view.
My Mark of the Well / Mark of the Tribe rings are useless.
I can no longer move around a zone I am fully flagged for.
As I have stated before, I play down the line and would never knowingly port people past content, that they have noright to be at. (Its only ToT FFS
) Also I have rehailed 5 different spirits in the past couple of weeks to try and restore my flags, and looted another tribe ring, but to no avail.In the future I would recommend just stripping a persons ToT flags if deemed necessary, instead of perma nerfing them. Doing it that way would allow them to regain their flags without having to post in a shitcake of a thread such as this. (I still question why it was necessary in the first place)
In closing, I would like to be un-nerfed, I have tried to fix it myself but evidently I cant.
I'm not sure who you think i am Dimmi, but the guild im in didnt kill any farhags at all.
And to be honest, i couldnt care much about the Well Ring, my old chars have all they need from ToT, and my new one is enjoying the re flagging.
Also i didnt get some old Tank from dead guilds, they are my chars.
But you say, that only guilds that are Active And have killed the Boss to earn the key, may use the key UNLESS you had a meeting with the Devs about your new guild ranking, inhareting some of the priveleges of your old guild(s)?
Also i see you saying that 2/3rd rule ONLY apply to raids, not if you are trying to open an elaborate chest, for example?
As for the OP key goes, i think i hit the spot lol, that really happent to you? Far out.
And to be honest, i couldnt care much about the Well Ring, my old chars have all they need from ToT, and my new one is enjoying the re flagging.
Also i didnt get some old Tank from dead guilds, they are my chars.
But you say, that only guilds that are Active And have killed the Boss to earn the key, may use the key UNLESS you had a meeting with the Devs about your new guild ranking, inhareting some of the priveleges of your old guild(s)?
Also i see you saying that 2/3rd rule ONLY apply to raids, not if you are trying to open an elaborate chest, for example?
As for the OP key goes, i think i hit the spot lol, that really happent to you? Far out.
blahmookow
Dalayan Adventurer
Wow
All I can say is I am a little outraged that someone who has been so loyal and trusting in this game for so long is treated like some child that can't think for themselves.
This all stems from a couple of guilds that abuse shit because they can't keep people together long enough to progress and beat things together. So they get access to a character with a ring or a flag and abuse it to move forward in tiers at a more rapid rate.
I don't see where penalizing someone who doesn't want to abuse the system solves anything. If you had said that you caught Afip cheating or abusing his Well ring, then I would agree. But countless times, we port up and blow shit up there and have NEVER even thought of using the well ring because we know we are not flagged.
You are really penalizing someone for the fact they are friends with people in IL. When really you may have just looked at the wrong guildname when deactivating well rings.
Like Dimmi said, we are just around the corner from knocking the well out and then this will be a moot point. I do think that before doing such drastic things in the future that you think about what it's effect is going to be. Clearly this was something that was not done.
Cyen/Draxle
All I can say is I am a little outraged that someone who has been so loyal and trusting in this game for so long is treated like some child that can't think for themselves.
This all stems from a couple of guilds that abuse shit because they can't keep people together long enough to progress and beat things together. So they get access to a character with a ring or a flag and abuse it to move forward in tiers at a more rapid rate.
I don't see where penalizing someone who doesn't want to abuse the system solves anything. If you had said that you caught Afip cheating or abusing his Well ring, then I would agree. But countless times, we port up and blow shit up there and have NEVER even thought of using the well ring because we know we are not flagged.
You are really penalizing someone for the fact they are friends with people in IL. When really you may have just looked at the wrong guildname when deactivating well rings.
Like Dimmi said, we are just around the corner from knocking the well out and then this will be a moot point. I do think that before doing such drastic things in the future that you think about what it's effect is going to be. Clearly this was something that was not done.
Cyen/Draxle
Last edited:
Jimkoz
Dalayan Adventurer
Maybe its time for a "server reset" , Would be fun to start over all fresh and new. I have only played on here for about 2 years and in that limited time I have seen alot of game changes, I even heard before I started playing some zones would drop crazy PP and even some raid bosses dropped charms.
With all the goofy flaggings/stripping of flags/whatever else is going on, maybe it would be pretty cool just to start over fresh and brand new. I know my character isnt the top of the line, but I have invested in alot of time and effort into Konad and I wouldnt mind seeing SoD reset and everyone on the same even playing field.
, Would be fun to start over all fresh and new. I have only played on here for about 2 years and in that limited time I have seen alot of game changes, I even heard before I started playing some zones would drop crazy PP and even some raid bosses dropped charms.With all the goofy flaggings/stripping of flags/whatever else is going on, maybe it would be pretty cool just to start over fresh and brand new. I know my character isnt the top of the line, but I have invested in alot of time and effort into Konad and I wouldnt mind seeing SoD reset and everyone on the same even playing field.
Dimmi
Dalayan Elder
Ngl, I'm up way past my bed-time, and had to edit a few times b/c I realized I kept mixing you up with Afip...I'm just too lazy to keep editing until I get it right =\
All the examples I listed were from people/guilds that are neither you nor Afip, if that helps any!
Maybe its time for a "server reset"
That was kinda part of my suggestion (perhaps in the wrong section ><)
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
Maybe its time for a "server reset"
With all the goofy flaggings/stripping of flags/whatever else is going on, maybe it would be pretty cool just to start over fresh and brand new. I know my character isnt the top of the line, but I have invested in alot of time and effort into Konad and I wouldnt mind seeing SoD reset and everyone on the same even playing field.
Yeah I don't see this happening.
Simkin
Dalayan Beginner
Push your guild to complete The Eternal Well, then petition for your flag back. In the meantime have your friends with working ToT rings do the ringing. Badabing badaboom.
I don't agree with the whole Tribes/Well rings being broken at the same time thing. However that's the gravity of the situation and this is what you need to do to get back to homeostasis.
In an ideal world the flags for rings would be different but alas...they aren't. Buck up, you're almost there!
Sodshaman1
Dalayan Adventurer
The comment about the maps sticks out to me. I just got into my lower 60s, and I already have been removed and rejected from VE/E T-map groups because I'm not 65 or I don't have the "desired gear" for them.
I understand people who work hard want it easier for their alts. With a server population that is low, all this does is slow down progression of newer players. Tanks come to mind. Unless you're in a guild where you can bot a tank, chances of finding a random tank is hard. Why? Because groups would rather bot a tank geared/AA'd out than actually invite a new tank into a group and have some sort've challenge. Groups would rather bot a retired 65 with 200+ AA's than take someone new. Makes it near impossible for new players to progress once they hit 65.
As Konad said, I see a lot of changes going on lately and with all the disputes...maybe it is best. Devs don't want ringers in raids(reset will fix). Devs dont want people using retired characters(reset will fix). And raiders will raid regardless, tradeskillers will tradeskill regardless. Some may quit, some may not.
I'm also concerned about this as well. I want to raid on SoD. I don't mind starting off raiding DHK and what not, moving to Lavascale, Storm's Eye, Plane of Air...I really don't. But there aren't guilds doing that. I haven't found a single guild starting off at Tier 1. Most guilds are T6+, and will remain to do so. So until Devs figure out a way to really put in a solid system, I feel there will always be this struggle.
Edit: Don't take this as me complaining, because so far I'm quite content with how I have progressed. And there have been some cool 65's that have helped out with XP and Quests.
I understand people who work hard want it easier for their alts. With a server population that is low, all this does is slow down progression of newer players. Tanks come to mind. Unless you're in a guild where you can bot a tank, chances of finding a random tank is hard. Why? Because groups would rather bot a tank geared/AA'd out than actually invite a new tank into a group and have some sort've challenge. Groups would rather bot a retired 65 with 200+ AA's than take someone new. Makes it near impossible for new players to progress once they hit 65.
As Konad said, I see a lot of changes going on lately and with all the disputes...maybe it is best. Devs don't want ringers in raids(reset will fix). Devs dont want people using retired characters(reset will fix). And raiders will raid regardless, tradeskillers will tradeskill regardless. Some may quit, some may not.
I'm also concerned about this as well. I want to raid on SoD. I don't mind starting off raiding DHK and what not, moving to Lavascale, Storm's Eye, Plane of Air...I really don't. But there aren't guilds doing that. I haven't found a single guild starting off at Tier 1. Most guilds are T6+, and will remain to do so. So until Devs figure out a way to really put in a solid system, I feel there will always be this struggle.
Edit: Don't take this as me complaining, because so far I'm quite content with how I have progressed. And there have been some cool 65's that have helped out with XP and Quests.
Last edited:
Simkin please keep your inane comments out of thread, unless you have something constructive to say.
Facts;
My mark if the welll is broken
I have tried to fix this by hailing every spirit after each kill. (5 Tot wings)
Looted another mark of the tribes to try and get this fixed
So yeah despite of the fact I have mashed 5 ToT mobs in the last few weeks I still seem unable to group there;
So either reset my flags so or can please or dont. Ive put the the effort in and killed farhags again this pretty shitty atm.
Facts;
My mark if the welll is broken
I have tried to fix this by hailing every spirit after each kill. (5 Tot wings)
Looted another mark of the tribes to try and get this fixed
So yeah despite of the fact I have mashed 5 ToT mobs in the last few weeks I still seem unable to group there;
So either reset my flags so or can please or dont. Ive put the the effort in and killed farhags again this pretty shitty atm.
Last edited: