Character flags to insure 2/3rd rule.

Tarutao said:
Be polite, be respectful, or be gone.
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Im not sure if this is ment for me or not. I do feel that i was (all but the slander/joke at Dimmi, but he started! he really did...).

I was trying to suggest a solution for flags in general. That the Well ring issue was what brought this about, is pure coincidence.

It is very important for me that i don't break the rules, and i need to know the rules, well. I thought that im a good guy, i don't break rules if i just do what i feel is right. Now this was not a good idea, lesson learned.

So this is mostly why i made this suggestion, a flagging system that will tell/prevent me from doing something illigal.


Right now im really confused about the rules (i tried to read all Devs posts, but i cant figur it out, sorry).

Would it be ok to do a wing in ToT with 12 flagged chars and 6 unflagged, who are not in the same guild?
If so, can these unflagged people hail to get flag, and are they then considered legally flagged? (nothing about the well ring, just for wing access).
 
Snake said:
Im not sure if this is ment for me or not. I do feel that i was (all but the slander/joke at Dimmi, but he started! he really did...).

I was trying to suggest a solution for flags in general. That the Well ring issue was what brought this about, is pure coincidence.

It is very important for me that i don't break the rules, and i need to know the rules, well. I thought that im a good guy, i don't break rules if i just do what i feel is right. Now this was not a good idea, lesson learned.

So this is mostly why i made this suggestion, a flagging system that will tell/prevent me from doing something illigal.


Right now im really confused about the rules (i tried to read all Devs posts, but i cant figur it out, sorry).

Would it be ok to do a wing in ToT with 12 flagged chars and 6 unflagged, who are not in the same guild?
If so, can these unflagged people hail to get flag, and are they then considered legally flagged? (nothing about the well ring, just for wing access).
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I would start with the assumtion that any given character has no business in any wing he isn't flagged for, wich of course includes not being allowed to hail the spirit.
 
Nwaij said:
I would start with the assumtion that any given character has no business in any wing he isn't flagged for, wich of course includes not being allowed to hail the spirit.
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Uhh... isn't this exactly what the 2/3 rule is about? Why should some unflagged people not be in a place if 2/3 or more of the raid force is flagged?

Here is a quote from Allielyn "You guys are right, for pickup raids and raids which use a number of overtiered characters, the rule of thumb is 2/3 of the players should be keyed for/have access to the content to drag the rest of the raid with them."
 
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robopirateninja said:
yeah, pointing fingers at goon squad of yore, which happened at the time to be led by the developer who is now making these fixes doesn't sound like tinfoil at all.

"a waste of dev time" is kind of a terrible argument for anyone to make, especially anyone who isn't a developer.

First of all, you really have no idea how long anything takes. As someone who came to this with little coding/programming background it's amazing to me the things that can take A THOUSAND HOURS FOR NO REASON and things that seem huge are sometimes conceived implemented and working in hours.

You have no way of knowing which category this project, or any other is in.

Second of all, we are volunteers. We make and repair what we please, when we please, as meets with the approval of our Glorious Overlord Glaven Woldaff. What is a waste of our time is when we put many hours into developing something like a progressive raidzone with a storyline, interesting encounters and diverse rewards, only to have players do their best to scam, break and cheat their way through it.

We tried to prevent this behavior with rules.
We tried to prevent this behavior with stricter, quantitative rules.
These attempts have proven (for me at least) that if it is possible to cheat, people will attempt to do so. Now we are doing our best to make it completely impossible to cheat in Tower of Tarhyl (an exploit using a system that was originally designed entirely for the player's convenience, might I add)

I don't really understand your arguments against repairing a possible exploit in raid progression, the only reason I can imagine that people would want it to stay the way it was is so they could continue to cheat.

As has been said before, a trillion times, every time anything is buffed, nerfed, balanced, or destroyed and dropped into a smoking crater in Lake Starfall, just because it was like that before, doesn't necessarily mean that was the best or even a good way for it to be, and definitely does not preclude anything from getting better. All Devs have the same goals: to make SoD as good a game as possible. Unfortunately for some of you out there, we all think this means that you should have to complete the raid progression as we intended when we designed it.

Bottom line, what is and isn't a waste of developer time isn't something that you are informed about or qualified to determine.
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Thanks for the long, and accurate post. When referring to the old Goon Squad, I had no idea it even WAS Slaariel leading them, so I can understand where the tinfoil comment came from. Don't personally know ANYTHING about Slaariel, excuse my ignorance on his history. (On a side note to this, him being the former leader has nothing to do with what his guild mates said at the time, maybe I was simply talking to the wrong person on the wrong day and those are the answers/comments I got.)

The main point I'm trying to make is just to completely do away with the well ring concept. Any incarnation of it is asking for it to be abused. Just stick with the Mark of the Tribes, and make everybody kill the flarefiend every time. If you've done the Well, you'll have a flag that allows you to select going to the well from the spirit without the need for a well ring, if we're going with the assumption the Well should be doable while things in Farhag wing are up. If you're trying to do the well with 17people + 1 person that hasn't done before, I guess you're going to have to make a trek through Farhags, and thats just too bad, but its the easiest way to ensure the system can't/won't be abused.
 
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kibeth said:
Thanks for the long, and accurate post. When referring to the old Goon Squad, I had no idea it even WAS Slaariel leading them, so I can understand where the tinfoil comment came from. Don't personally know ANYTHING about Slaariel, excuse my ignorance on his history. (On a side note to this, him being the former leader has nothing to do with what his guild mates said at the time, maybe I was simply talking to the wrong person on the wrong day and those are the answers/comments I got.)
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Uh listen no, Numinous and Goon Squad had huge beef so there is no way we would have told you about when we doing exploits. For example I bet you haven't even heard about when we:

Positioned Folerit so his adds got stuck in the wall
Used skeleton illusion in Undercity to clip through the ground teleporting us to serizus's room
Using Macroquest
Inventing Macroquest
Using Aulian's well ring to access tarhyl in an attempt to impress 16 year old girls (did not work)
Rooted every single mob in the entire Generals fight with illuminati help
Employed shadowstep in conjunction with camping tactics in Thaz 1
Employed Santeria rituals to skew rng
Unplugged our ethernet cables then plugged them back in really quickly to avoid combat rounds on Corefire

probably some other stuff I am forgetting but never that thing you said. (sorry if I have leaked any guild's strats here)
 
What you did wasn't considered an exploit so why not talk about it, we always thought you used the well ring to skip flarefiends, later i was told you kinda sorta did but not exactly (i.e. you used well ring to skip laying under the flarefiend, but you always went back and killed it so it wasn't considered cheating or content skipping). Yeah we USED to have a beef with Goon Squad, competition does that sometimes, but what could that possibly have to do with my comments. I wasn't trying to like, retroactively get them in trouble, I was trying to give an example of how it can be skewed, and to make the argument for just removing well rings altogether. Little did I know I was making the comment to the former leader of GS (shows how much I actually paid attention to them right?)
 
we never did this. volkov did not even raid with us really when we were in tot
i never on any raid remember skipping then coming back to them. if it did happen it was probably a one time thing
 
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