darksabbath
Dalayan Master
If by that, you mean the way EQ was originally, than yes, you are correct. EQ as it is now, no way in hell, sod is much slower than that.
Brainstorming
- Thread starter ynnear
- Start date
If by that, you mean the way EQ was originally, than yes, you are correct. EQ as it is now, no way in hell, sod is much slower than that.
Emerica
Dalayan Elder
Pretty sure everyone would, thats not really what I was talking about or refering to though.
Remove tomes, AAs, levels, exp. Level 1 is the only level. All skills would be maxed from the start. All spells would be freely available and tiered purely by whether or not you have enough maximum mana to cast them at all. Everything you fight would be for gear, and every dungeon would be a crawl rather than a camp. Gear would be expanded with lots of aug slots and added effects like FT would have unreachably high caps to allow for a lot of customization of your char. All core stats would be made to do something worthwhile for all classes. No long-term buffs, no boxing, no point in soloing. Lots of fluid active abilities for melee classes. As much 6-man content as raid content with equal progression for each. Every character would have a charm item by default which grows as you progress through content. Etc.
Too bad it would be a completely different game. Would give me something to do...
edit: so long as I'm making things up let's say there's only one class and you'd be able to effectively switch archetypes/hybridize by swapping gear and spells, too.
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I agree with a previous poster. Its all about getting the SoD word out there. I played EQ off and on since July 2000 and I just heard about this mod and i couldnt join up fast enough.
The crew i run with on Diablo 3 (3 guys and myself) HAVE ALL JOINED SoD and we are having a blast!! just talking over skype and slaying Adepts! Also an old SoD veteran (the guy who told me about it) is getting back into it as well because of me and my friends. I just posted SoD on my facebook inviting everyone to come join in on the EverFun! I suggest all of you do the same. People dont know about this mod and they need to. Its amazing!! THANKS SOD! to the admins and devs: You guys are doin god's work out there, bringing back everything anyone could ever want in an MMO!
-Ohdiss
28 Beastlord =D
The crew i run with on Diablo 3 (3 guys and myself) HAVE ALL JOINED SoD and we are having a blast!! just talking over skype and slaying Adepts! Also an old SoD veteran (the guy who told me about it) is getting back into it as well because of me and my friends. I just posted SoD on my facebook inviting everyone to come join in on the EverFun! I suggest all of you do the same. People dont know about this mod and they need to. Its amazing!! THANKS SOD! to the admins and devs: You guys are doin god's work out there, bringing back everything anyone could ever want in an MMO!
-Ohdiss
28 Beastlord =D
I think it'd be a cool game, especially if it was an mmofps yes
CharmCitysKing
Dalayan Elder
+1. Welcome to the server
Re
This will not help attract new players, but will defiantly help keep current players entertained.
Need to make playing tanks a bit more attractive, either by offering decent tank gear in maps, or some quest gear. Any other class geared in Tmap gear VE to D is considered geared enough to at least fulfill their roles at 65, where a tank in VE-D map gear is a joke.
Its crazy hard to get a tank to T4-5ish without forming the guild yourself, and even killing Wastes Orcs or Eldenals, people would frown upon listsold geared tanks.
Just an option or two outside of piggy backing a tank into a T6 PUG on the back of my cleric would be welcome addition to gearing up future tanks.
This will not help attract new players, but will defiantly help keep current players entertained.
Need to make playing tanks a bit more attractive, either by offering decent tank gear in maps, or some quest gear. Any other class geared in Tmap gear VE to D is considered geared enough to at least fulfill their roles at 65, where a tank in VE-D map gear is a joke.
Its crazy hard to get a tank to T4-5ish without forming the guild yourself, and even killing Wastes Orcs or Eldenals, people would frown upon listsold geared tanks.
Just an option or two outside of piggy backing a tank into a T6 PUG on the back of my cleric would be welcome addition to gearing up future tanks.
Zapple
Dalayan Elder
the exp and cash drop nerfs that have occurred are really dumb, make little to no sense and are bad for attracting and retaining new players. the time investment on tome grinding and charm farming was still exponential compared to leveling and AAs back then before the first big nerf last year but now it is obscene, especially after the most recent nerf a couple days ago.
not trying to be a dick here but these kinds of changes seem to be made by someone who is horribly out of touch with the game and the reality that in these types of games that people do quit playing for various reasons and need to be replaced in the context of guilds and raiding. newer players being able to get up to a servicable spot in the tome/charm grind in a reasonable amount of time is not a bad thing at all
not trying to be a dick here but these kinds of changes seem to be made by someone who is horribly out of touch with the game and the reality that in these types of games that people do quit playing for various reasons and need to be replaced in the context of guilds and raiding. newer players being able to get up to a servicable spot in the tome/charm grind in a reasonable amount of time is not a bad thing at all
TapeinV
Dalayan Elder
Zapple said:
Quoted for absolute truth. We're only just now pushing into t10 after tons of xping and charm grinding, and we're at the point where we need damn near 18 dudes for the encounters. When someone quits its a ridiculous headache trying to recruit someone who is either already exped to where they need to be or finding a hard dude who has no real life and can catch up relatively quickly. I can't wrap my mind around why further exp nerfs were needed.
CharmCitysKing
Dalayan Elder
I gotta agree with these guys on this one. Why the nerf? I'm not going to argue and curse and flip out over this but it would be nice to get an official statement.
cian2
Dalayan Master
having a dev who actually has a clue about what happens in this game makes zero difference, trust me.
Anti Eh
Dalayan Elder
SecretsOfThePast
Super Secret Squirrel Dev
Hi,
I'm just gonna put this out there, I am not a designer, I am a coder, so take my word as if a player has said it in this post.
I play(ed) games that make you grind out stuff. I still play games that make you do the same things over and over. The issue that almost every modern MMO (even parts of Shards of Dalaya) has is the grind.
No, I am not talking about gear, I am talking about simple things.
Downtime between combat, money grinding for things that should be free or obtained in other ways (character respecs), experience gain being too fast/slow, interruptions (I am looking at you, invasion system), anything that hinders you and makes you wait a period of time - or worse, making you unable to do other things until other conditions are met - are really bad for gameplay.
The issue is balancing these systems to the point where they aren't too easy that the game isn't fun anymore.
Back on topic here, I personally think that reducing exp/money gain is just a way to prolong existing content - when in fact, those who have most of the content maxed out will hinder from this, as stated in this thread about new recruits. You'll spend more time backflagging/gearing/leveling new players to the point where it isn't fun. Is that a bad thing? In my opinion, yes, there's a fine line between teaching a new player the ropes and feeding them cake.
Take my opinion with a grain of salt, though, as I do not claim to know an ideal solution, and I am certainly not in the position to force a solution on anyone - I only code 3.0 with KLS, not make game-changing decisions on 2.0.
Speaking of 3.0, KimmySprite has been working on character copies from live to beta and you guys should check it out using your 2.0 characters. They won't be saved, but they are there as of the end of the month of June ready to be copied.
Also, since this has come up and caused some confusion on 2.0, we will be listening to the design team only, and we will not be interjecting anything that the design team would not want. I currently do not have a say in design decisions, and I intend to keep it that way - this is Shards of Dalaya, of course, not "Shards of Secrets Land of 99 Emulator: Funhouse". We are working hard on the coding aspect and are trying to clone 2.0, not change the game entirely -- and if something major does get changed, you can blame slaariel, Zaela or any of the designers who will be asking for whatever it may be.
I'm just gonna put this out there, I am not a designer, I am a coder, so take my word as if a player has said it in this post.
I play(ed) games that make you grind out stuff. I still play games that make you do the same things over and over. The issue that almost every modern MMO (even parts of Shards of Dalaya) has is the grind.
No, I am not talking about gear, I am talking about simple things.
Downtime between combat, money grinding for things that should be free or obtained in other ways (character respecs), experience gain being too fast/slow, interruptions (I am looking at you, invasion system), anything that hinders you and makes you wait a period of time - or worse, making you unable to do other things until other conditions are met - are really bad for gameplay.
The issue is balancing these systems to the point where they aren't too easy that the game isn't fun anymore.
Back on topic here, I personally think that reducing exp/money gain is just a way to prolong existing content - when in fact, those who have most of the content maxed out will hinder from this, as stated in this thread about new recruits. You'll spend more time backflagging/gearing/leveling new players to the point where it isn't fun. Is that a bad thing? In my opinion, yes, there's a fine line between teaching a new player the ropes and feeding them cake.
Take my opinion with a grain of salt, though, as I do not claim to know an ideal solution, and I am certainly not in the position to force a solution on anyone - I only code 3.0 with KLS, not make game-changing decisions on 2.0.
Speaking of 3.0, KimmySprite has been working on character copies from live to beta and you guys should check it out using your 2.0 characters. They won't be saved, but they are there as of the end of the month of June ready to be copied.
Also, since this has come up and caused some confusion on 2.0, we will be listening to the design team only, and we will not be interjecting anything that the design team would not want. I currently do not have a say in design decisions, and I intend to keep it that way - this is Shards of Dalaya, of course, not "Shards of Secrets Land of 99 Emulator: Funhouse". We are working hard on the coding aspect and are trying to clone 2.0, not change the game entirely -- and if something major does get changed, you can blame slaariel, Zaela or any of the designers who will be asking for whatever it may be.
Even if it took half as long to level it would still take a really long time. I think ultimately the decision has been made that this is a game for masochists and the end-game should be nigh unreachable unless you have a year or two of your life to spend doing this as a full time "job".
Personally, I disagree with this decision. However, as the forums resident windbag and logorrheic poster, I cannot change the course of this ship (The S.S. NerdPunisher).
Personally, I disagree with this decision. However, as the forums resident windbag and logorrheic poster, I cannot change the course of this ship (The S.S. NerdPunisher).
I don't think the only issue with levelling is that it takes too long. Levelling 1-64 is just terribly boring and repetitive, with nearly every quest being a waste of time because gear you can obtain as a fresh 65 is easier to get and almost always better and the exp reward is terrible. Levels 1-64 end up being a race to the finish because there are no meaningful ways to improve your character until 65. The time investment wouldn't seem so bad if it didn't feel like you were starting from scratch as soon as you hit 65.
My suggestion would be to create more quests for levels 20-60 that actually let a player obtain useful gear, so they can actually see their character improve in other ways than just level gains. There should also be a substantial increase in the experience received for completing these quests. I see no reason why non-repeatable quests such as the Starfall and Thurgadin quests should not give more experience.
I also feel that there are not nearly enough gear drops pre-65. You know there is a problem when you can fomelo nearly any character around 50-55 and find them wearing soft leather, mithril, or even nothing in several slots. Now I'm ot saying we need to give them armor with 40ac, 60hp, tons of stats, but there is really a problem when through the normal course of levelling a character, someone is wearing the same armor at level 55 as they did at level 10. One thing that would really help is adding more items with level 1 an 2 focus effects. These items are practically non-existent and I see no reason why they should be so rare. I think with a few simple changes, the gear progression would be much more steady and allow new 65's to start contributing on raids much quicker.
My suggestion would be to create more quests for levels 20-60 that actually let a player obtain useful gear, so they can actually see their character improve in other ways than just level gains. There should also be a substantial increase in the experience received for completing these quests. I see no reason why non-repeatable quests such as the Starfall and Thurgadin quests should not give more experience.
I also feel that there are not nearly enough gear drops pre-65. You know there is a problem when you can fomelo nearly any character around 50-55 and find them wearing soft leather, mithril, or even nothing in several slots. Now I'm ot saying we need to give them armor with 40ac, 60hp, tons of stats, but there is really a problem when through the normal course of levelling a character, someone is wearing the same armor at level 55 as they did at level 10. One thing that would really help is adding more items with level 1 an 2 focus effects. These items are practically non-existent and I see no reason why they should be so rare. I think with a few simple changes, the gear progression would be much more steady and allow new 65's to start contributing on raids much quicker.
Kedrin
Dalayan Pious Diety
I haven't been playing the game very long in comparison with the age of the server and others who still play and post on the boards. Kedrin was made in December of 2009 so I guess I have only been playing for 2.5 years.
Saying that; I do feel I have seen most of the content the game has to offer. I have done a number of quests, even though I am still two items away from getting my Final Vah back, I have also killed the majority of the 6 man / 12 man bosses in the game.
I still find enjoyment in logging in and killing random things. I feel that tomes helps to promote me to log on. They are an important aspect of the game that makes me, personally, feel that I am at least bettering my character in some way, no matter how little (I am doing resist tomes, go go +3 PR/DR!), as I play.
RPG's are all about playing a character and preparing him or her for the next chapter in the book. The single greatest thing you can do in any MMORPG is to learn how to kill a new dragon with a bunch of buddies you met along your journey. You know that the next dragon you face will only be harder so you prepare yourself in any means necessary. Most MMO's of today only let you progress your character in one way: gear. Farming gear helps people play because everyone likes to feel stronger and get new shiny things. It also helps slow people down from ripping through all the content in the game faster then it can be made. The problem with this is it promotes people to only want to attempt the content in which they will get gear from.
I feel that tomes are simply a seconds path you can take to better your character other then gear. This progression can be done anywhere that you can kill for exp. You can grind hard in the best exp zones to make the bar move fast or you can mess around helping friends, random people and the bar will move slow. In both cares you are still bettering yourself for the next dragon.
My main point: it seems like the majority of the devs and admins in the game feel that tomes in general are a bad idea. Perhaps they feed that Coxed of Power makes your character too powerful or that the number of tomes that were added in the "expansion" is overwhelming. Whatever the reason; I just find it ass backwards that if so many people who run the game feel this way, why is exp getting nerfed over and over again? It just seems so contradictory.
Saying that; I do feel I have seen most of the content the game has to offer. I have done a number of quests, even though I am still two items away from getting my Final Vah back, I have also killed the majority of the 6 man / 12 man bosses in the game.
I still find enjoyment in logging in and killing random things. I feel that tomes helps to promote me to log on. They are an important aspect of the game that makes me, personally, feel that I am at least bettering my character in some way, no matter how little (I am doing resist tomes, go go +3 PR/DR!), as I play.
RPG's are all about playing a character and preparing him or her for the next chapter in the book. The single greatest thing you can do in any MMORPG is to learn how to kill a new dragon with a bunch of buddies you met along your journey. You know that the next dragon you face will only be harder so you prepare yourself in any means necessary. Most MMO's of today only let you progress your character in one way: gear. Farming gear helps people play because everyone likes to feel stronger and get new shiny things. It also helps slow people down from ripping through all the content in the game faster then it can be made. The problem with this is it promotes people to only want to attempt the content in which they will get gear from.
I feel that tomes are simply a seconds path you can take to better your character other then gear. This progression can be done anywhere that you can kill for exp. You can grind hard in the best exp zones to make the bar move fast or you can mess around helping friends, random people and the bar will move slow. In both cares you are still bettering yourself for the next dragon.
My main point: it seems like the majority of the devs and admins in the game feel that tomes in general are a bad idea. Perhaps they feed that Coxed of Power makes your character too powerful or that the number of tomes that were added in the "expansion" is overwhelming. Whatever the reason; I just find it ass backwards that if so many people who run the game feel this way, why is exp getting nerfed over and over again? It just seems so contradictory.
Kedrin
Dalayan Pious Diety
Can you elaborate on this point any? Everquest is all about killing mobs to get stronger and then moving on to the next camp to kill more mobs that you couldn't before. If you find that "terribly boring" then perhaps the reason is because you don't like RPG's.
You can start the Main Quest of the game at level 1. This quest lines gives you a dumb amount of exp vs the exp needed to simply level to 65. It also has a reward you will use for the rest of the game.
Newport ring 5 is also simply amazing. The last ring for Tanks and Melee dps will last a very long time unless they are crazy twinked. I remember using mine still after I had max aa's and was doing tome exp. I don't see that as "easy to replace" at all. I also still use my gloves from my Thuragdin quest to this day.
It only feels like a race because you made it a race in your head. Leveling to 65 helps the learning curve of the game. The game is designed to help you learn how the game works so when you hit level 65 you know how to play the game in some form. I know this doesn't work for everyone.
I really do not know where to begin with this. It seems like you are just contradicting yourself.
You want to give quests more exp so people can level faster.
Quests are mainly for gear. Perhaps you feel the gear that you get from quests are not good enough but that is the main goal to most quests I can think of. Simply going out and killing random mobs that give you exp will give you much more exp then trying to do a quest. Some drops needed for quests are rare and force you to "camp" a mob. This takes time and slows the rate of leveling down. The time the quest takes you away from not getting exp is the price you pay to get the item reward. If the quest gave you the item reward and the same (or more) amount of experience that you would have got if you had just grinded then everyone would now do that quest and no one would grind around that level.
You want to give people leveling to 65 more quests so they can get better gear.
I'm guessing you want this gear to be useful at level 65 since it "feel like you were starting from scratch as soon as you hit 65"
Then you say "I'm not saying we need to give them armor with 40ac, 60hp, tons of stats"
Now that we know what you are not saying, let us try to find out what you are saying. I, for one, am lost.
When I started the game my friend and I went out of our way to farm gear we wanted as we leveled. We did every Starfall quest and Thurgadin quest on all three of the characters we played (He played a shaman, warrior and I played a ranger). My friend really wanted a Chestplate of the Warlord because he thought it was amazing so we farmed the crap out of Keep of Mielech and the thing didn't drop for a very long time. We were all level 65 by the time he finally got it. It was still an upgrade and he used it until he quit playing the game.
The BP has 40 ac and 66 hp on it when its PRISTINE. The mob that drops it is level 55 and comes with 2 adds that are rather hard when you are a fresh player trying to farm his gear.
Do you want his magical armor quest to be easy or hard? How many stats do you want to put on the armor? If its too hard and far under the quality of the BP off Warlord Pripitraliti the Great then people will never do the quest. A quest that people spent time to write and code over doing something else. If the quest is too easy and the BP is almost just as good as the one in question then people will stop farming for it and less and less people will go to Keep of Mielech.
If anything I feel that leveling to 65 is too easy. I also see many people that are in their high 50's with very little gear. If people are leveling to 65 with "leather gear" then perhaps we should make the game harder other then give low level players even more gear to face roll their way to 65 in.
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