Bounty hunting

darksabbath said:
My idea to change(improve?) Bounties
I actually think customizable gear is a great idea, it's just the target scope is so narrow, and so prohibitive to complete, that it gets ignored instead of utilized the way it should. For example, if the first tier of bounties started at level 10, then those teens players could gain an item they can mod out to help them. When they hit the 20's, new bounties open up, and they help you earn the next tier of mods. Etc, etc. Now, if people could purchase numerous slots that they could mod out, it would make for less toons that never find upgrades to a lot while hunting, and lend up 65 with cloth armor and a newbie tunic on. Imagine how many of these HM toons would use the bounty system for gearing?
Perhaps the tokens from the previous group would turn in on a 2 for 1, or 3 for 1 scale. Maybe even make the purchased mods exchangable (like credit for charms is done). You bought that aug for three tier2 bounty tokens, and the merchant gives you a credit for two tier2 tokens in exchange. The actual gear slots would open up purely by doing a number of bounties. Similar to how player made armor is grouped as smalls, mediums, and larges. Doing two bounties opens access to smalls, four for mediums, and six for larges. At the present limit of 2 per day, that means 3 days just for access to the bp/legs. And they could just be given a cash cost instead even, if you wanted to siphon some cash out. Tier 1 (10-19) could be cheap, like 1pp cost, while that tier 5 (50-59) stuff could cost 200pp a slot ( or more). The bounty tokens would then be spent purely get augs to improve the gear.

I could perhaps try to flesh this out further, if some dev type is actually interested in this idea. Later, when my kids aren't driving me nuts, that is.
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Making bounty rewards compete with tradeskilled gear throughout the levels is a bad idea imo. No need to displace stuff that already has its niche.
 
Because so many ppl make the lower tier TS items these days? Aside from mithril weapons (and maybe ghostmetal ones), just how many of your "end-game" tradeskillers make the lower tiered gear? I know of one smith (who is still skilling up) who actually lists Mithril armor. I can't think of a single vendor selling low end tailored armor (like the various silk armors) at this point. And really, you could make the stats on this new low end gear to max out just under the comparative TS gears if you want.
Now, even if these TS gears were being made, most new players wouldn't be able to afford them anyways I would bet. Where as they can usually afford the time to go xp somewhere and earn bounties towards some armor.
 
darksabbath said:
Now, even if these TS gears were being made, most new players wouldn't be able to afford them anyways I would bet.
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Affording the item is one half of the battle. The other half, my new forum friend, is learning how to properly use the listing system as a new player. It is a headache.
 
The listing system could be easier.. but how? Personally, I just use the website version, and make notes of who has what. Then I check in game to compare prices. It is still far more tedious than the Bazaar from live, but far less sucky than, "Sellling FBSS, first torch" you know? Having to check off the game sucks, but it's better than a '/cm listsold next' hotkey.
 
I agree with everything you have just said. Why couldn't we use the bazaar, or NPC's as player-made vendors that take like 10% off a sale?
 
There used to be player made vendors. For some reason, a non-indexable listsold system was implemented over that. I think that player vendors or a fully searchable system would be much better and more convenient for everybody.

What was the rationale about why we have to slowly crawl listsold again?
 
fuwok said:
There used to be player made vendors. For some reason, a non-indexable listsold system was implemented over that. I think that player vendors or a fully searchable system would be much better and more convenient for everybody.

What was the rationale about why we have to slowly crawl listsold again?
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I loved loved loved player vendors in cities. When I first found WR it was my ABSOLUTE favorite part of my game. And from an immersion stand point, it made so much sense! You paid some guy in a city rent money each week to sell your wares. Such a beautiful system.

I cried when it was removed.

Also, as far as plat sinks go, it was a fantastic idea for one, I thought.
 
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fuwok said:
There used to be player made vendors. For some reason, a non-indexable listsold system was implemented over that. I think that player vendors or a fully searchable system would be much better and more convenient for everybody.

What was the rationale about why we have to slowly crawl listsold again?
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Rentable vendors were taken out because there were a limited number of them, and they weren't very fair because vendors in certain cities and certain locations in those cities had far higher traffic than all the rest and thus would sell better. Good luck selling anything if your vendor was in Oggok.

I'm not sure if there was an official rationale for listsold being as it is but I imagine it's non-searchable to preserve some level of player interaction: if someone uses /auction to promote their listsold wares and/or become known for carrying certain kinds of items, then they'll sell better than someone who doesn't do those things, even if the more well-known person's prices are higher. More reward for more work. I dunno if people still use auction, but this definitely worked/works to some degree. People would even answer questions about "who sells ___?" in /ooc! rarely! if it was for augs or maybe mithril weapons.

I still think that's better than a searchable system as long as people make use of it. You should do better for promoting yourself, rather than for just putting up your item for (lowest price - 10) and selling instantly. It kind of breaks down if everyone just trawls the listings without ever considering communicating with another human being.

(In fact, if I remember correctly, the trawlable list is really only there as a bone for people who play at odd hours and thus can't listen to /auction or promote themselves effectively.)
 
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Zaela said:
long form explanation
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I like the idea of a bazaar system (put all vendors in their own zone) and a searchable interface. Most player interaction with buying and selling items boils down to spend a few evenings spamming /cm listsold next and /oocing WTB grey goat fist or whatever the trendy item of the day is. Being able to quickly find what you want (or know if it is even for sale) would be an excellent thing.

In my opinion, most of the things that are done to promote player interaction outside of grouping and raiding are purely timesinks and don't promote fun or efficiency (getting to the next fun thing).
 
fuwok said:
In my opinion, most of the things that are done to promote player interaction outside of grouping and raiding are purely timesinks and don't promote fun or efficiency (getting to the next fun thing).
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Maybe not all things, but a handful.
 
fuwok said:
In my opinion, most of the things that are done to promote player interaction outside of grouping and raiding are purely timesinks and don't promote fun or efficiency (getting to the next fun thing).
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Buying and selling will never be efficient and fun given that getting money to buy things and obtaining things to sell are both purely mindless grinds. If you want efficient and fun, remove all droppable gear from the game and make everything either earned from your own kills or from quests. No time wasted looking for something you may or may not be able to afford. Would end twinking, too.
 
To be quite honest, I think that is one of the best ideas I have read(on most any subject). I always wondered why games have always had this desire to have massive amounts of items just floating around the world that 90% of the people either wouldn't/couldn't use. Think of all the crap items floating around on the listsold for "low levels and mid levels" in SoD, and all the greens that get disenchanted in WoW, and all the random items in other games(GW2 comes to mind) that I just salvage because it isn't worth my time trying to sell.
 
I think we should bring back player vendors. But instead of in cities, use the Bazaar zone from live. Have 15-20 vendors down each row that require players to rent them. Once they rent them, they could also sell the rights to a vendor. Obviously vendors near a bank would be of higher value.

This would be great.
 
Zaela said:
Buying and selling will never be efficient and fun given that getting money to buy things and obtaining things to sell are both purely mindless grinds. If you want efficient and fun, remove all droppable gear from the game and make everything either earned from your own kills or from quests. No time wasted looking for something you may or may not be able to afford. Would end twinking, too.
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Fine with me, just also do something about charms. Charms exist as a pointless platinum sink, or rather they would be a platinum sink except that nearly all the money that enters the coffers of the players does so for the express purpose of buying charms. Farming for charms isn't fun or good for anybody except the most masochistic amongst us.


TapeinV said:
I think we should bring back player vendors. But instead of in cities, use the Bazaar zone from live. Have 15-20 vendors down each row that require players to rent them. Once they rent them, they could also sell the rights to a vendor. Obviously vendors near a bank would be of higher value.

This would be great.
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I agree with your sentiments about this.
 
Why not base charms off of the amount of aa's, tomes, or some sort've character progression? I know you all hate to hear of EQlive and how it is a horrible game, but aside from your Intricate Wooden Figurine(PoP) -- you really only get charms(that are worth while) after that through raiding. And even the Intricate Wooden Figurine was based solely on your character's planar progression through the expansion.

With the excess platinum that would be on the server, from not needing to buy charms, you could have a few options to take some cash out of the stream. Maybe offer tradeskill vendors that sell appropriate materials so people aren't having to sit there clicking their mining button for 10 hours a day(or killing green con mobs). The lottery is always a good dump. You could maybe pay some platinum to a special npc that will cast buffs on you or something. I mean, not everyone has a full list of buff bots available to them and new players would love to spend some coin to get a clarity and haste.

But, that is probably taking things to the extreme so I will stop with my ideas! As for the bazaar thing, I would be willing to pay a tax to an NPC to sit in a boring zone selling Mielech B and C loots. But honestly, I like the idea of everything just being no-drop and you having to go camp gear yourself.
 
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For what it's worth, Zaela, I have made much use of your bounty system and enjoyed the payoffs. The experience was grueling, yes--upwards of a month just to create one 'dream item,' and it was only that fast because a high-end paladin friend let me borrow his character for the bounties. I did as them each day over and over for two of my own toons and am happy with the results (a very fun double proc whackstick for use with Cascading Bond and that belt in my wizard's Fomelo).

Don't be so hard on your own work. I know there are others who are just as diligent about doing the bounties in hopes of getting their own customized weapons/belts/seeds. It creates a long-term goal whose payoff the player gets to determine, and I can say the experience certainly did tug me to some nooks of Dalaya that I'd otherwise never have exped at.

I realize I'm verging on off-topic here, but these are my few gripes about the system as it is now, and I admit they're trivial:

1) There are no double token (aka "expert") bounties for R1 and only one for R2 (the Rust one).
2) The "Mecha Madness" R3 in Rust is disproportionately difficult considering it is not even listed as expert.
3) While it was a nice surprise to see some faction boosts along the way (like for the warrior guild in Underhill or the Surefall druids), I found the boosts to be infinitesimal. Are they meant to be just for show?

One last idea. Perhaps the upward exchange rate might be revised so that the player may trade three lower tokens for one higher rather than four lower for one higher? This would at least make the beginning bounty hunter feel a bit more productive through the ranks, as the R3 rewards would seem a bit more within grasp.
 
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