A Really Unpopular Suggestion
- Thread starter Loxo
- Start date
What is there to apologize for?
I find that the majority of xp zones consist of narrow twisty tunnels where
(a) I cannot see what is going on
(b) you are forced to fight with the mobs on top of you ruining the point of playing a mage.
This is NOT a whinge (before people start slamming me). It is just the way things are, so I adjust my play style accordingly.
Should we not celebrate the fact that the game can support different modes of play?
I WAS going to ask if we could have MORE zones to solo xp in, but in the light of the above - perhaps not.
This thread amazes me. And while I have had MANY conversations with Cyzaine about this type of thing over beers, it really is a pipe dream. Everyone knows the flaws of SoD, some major, some minor, but the reality is how the system is for buffs right now is how the game was designed around. You cannot just go and slash away a major part of the game without a huge overhaul and consideration for such a change. A while back we use to have death fatigue which you couldn't regen mana until it wore off. That was like a double whammy death penalty for casters over melee. So we fixed that to help speed up death/wipe recoveries. Changes like this would bring something we tried to fix back to the forefront. Chances are other things would need to be addressed like AA's. Soulbond would finally go away as people have wanted because what's the point for it if everything is short duration. There are probably many other encounters, spells, items, etc that would be nullified or need to be changed. If you had time to analyze the game and every class, spell, and zone in the game, yes something like this would be possible, but it would also not be the same game SoD has been for the past several years. Also, knowing how most of any MMO gamer is, and anyone who played the original Star Wars galaxies might remember. When you get USE TO a style of game play, and that drastically changes, many people lose interest. I could see many people who enjoy SoD as it is now, just saying forget it with a major change like this because it's something they would have to get use to all over again and bail. We saw the ups and downs from the 36 man to 18 man raids but that was a more positive change based on our server numbers. And our server numbers lately have been the lowest I've seen it in 5 years.
darksabbath
Dalayan Master
You can only be in so many bad pick-ups, with people who fail at pushing buttons, before you decide it is just quicker/easier to solo/duo instead. At least, that has been my personal exp.
Miffy
Dalayan Adventurer
I had an idea about this since a part of this is "its annoying to have to load buff bots sit around and buff everytime you make a group" Why not make an NPC in major cities that you go to pay it some plat and it takes a copy of all the buffs you have on you. Then the next time you go to group you pay it some plat and it casts the last buff set you saved on you. Could help cut down on buff bots and info sharing as well as be a little plat sink.
Xardon I agree that some people would be put off by any major change to a game they have played for years, but this has never stopped SoD from changing in the past. If a system is broken it doesn't make sense to keep it around just because it is what people are use to. Either way to remove long duration buffs and rebalance the game and its classes seems like a lot of work that could be better spent on improving the game in other ways, imo.
Xardon I agree that some people would be put off by any major change to a game they have played for years, but this has never stopped SoD from changing in the past. If a system is broken it doesn't make sense to keep it around just because it is what people are use to. Either way to remove long duration buffs and rebalance the game and its classes seems like a lot of work that could be better spent on improving the game in other ways, imo.
This assumes you don't break more than you fix.
Also, believe I said this earlier, but would much rather see Ikisith phase 2 then a rehash of the same game.
darksabbath
Dalayan Master
/agree
Also, a point to document better. This will further segregate higher end players grouping lower end ones. Every group with melee now would have you have a bst/enc/sham or the lack of haste would prevent low end melee from doing any dps. Likewise, lowend casters/healers without mana regen already tend to have mana issues as groups tend to have a continuous rhythm. The lack of max ft on casters/heals doubled with no mana regen buffs would further increase their inability to preform in group environments. Further, lowend tanks already have issues as people tend to like easy mode xp and a tank under 7k hp unbuffed is higher maintenance. Without a plethora or hp buffer, they are now under 6k buffed making them even less desirable. Warriors also become a worse group tank because with all of their agro generated by melee, a lack of haste will result in casters pulling agro and dieing. People will get fed up and find a new tank.
All of these things combine will make a further push towards all melee groups since all you need is 1 haster to get the most out of group dps.
Also, zones like cita/blood/kaes would become even less used as the amount of hp mobs have would effectively double and would hit 20% harder(this is a general calc of dps reduction and defensive reduction due to buff lose). Less groups on the lower threshold of these zones would now have to med so frequently, back to elds/rust it is. Thus we have effectively reduced xp content back to pre-ikisith.
Part of the design of this game as Xardon stated was to have powerful buffs. This means the player is FAR less powerful without them. The only real options to make buffs less relevant would be to add more power to the gear and reduce buffs equivalently or to reduce npc power relative to situations where those buffs are not available. The problem with this though is that now classes like bst/enchanter/bard need significant revamps since a vast amount of there importance is off the powerful buffs they provide.
If you want a prime example of what this would do to the entire game, join a HHK or Cata melee group without a pally in it. Its so bad in these examples that I have seen them drop a dps to pick up a shitty no dps pally just for the crit boost while having the other class. This boost is only 25-30% dps. Now imagine a losing 60%(emp) or XX% for stats on uncapped players or... The only thing we have accomplished is that perfect groups get xp and non-standard groups don't.
All of these things combine will make a further push towards all melee groups since all you need is 1 haster to get the most out of group dps.
Also, zones like cita/blood/kaes would become even less used as the amount of hp mobs have would effectively double and would hit 20% harder(this is a general calc of dps reduction and defensive reduction due to buff lose). Less groups on the lower threshold of these zones would now have to med so frequently, back to elds/rust it is. Thus we have effectively reduced xp content back to pre-ikisith.
Part of the design of this game as Xardon stated was to have powerful buffs. This means the player is FAR less powerful without them. The only real options to make buffs less relevant would be to add more power to the gear and reduce buffs equivalently or to reduce npc power relative to situations where those buffs are not available. The problem with this though is that now classes like bst/enchanter/bard need significant revamps since a vast amount of there importance is off the powerful buffs they provide.
If you want a prime example of what this would do to the entire game, join a HHK or Cata melee group without a pally in it. Its so bad in these examples that I have seen them drop a dps to pick up a shitty no dps pally just for the crit boost while having the other class. This boost is only 25-30% dps. Now imagine a losing 60%(emp) or XX% for stats on uncapped players or... The only thing we have accomplished is that perfect groups get xp and non-standard groups don't.
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Miffy
Dalayan Adventurer
Well actually bards would be unchanged and every other class would be like a bard, you only get their buffs while they are in the group. Or are you saying buffing classes are only important to use as buff bots :dumbsad:
But what would the major gains be from this change? The ones I can think of are:
-no buff bots
-classes like shm and ench become much more desireable
-frees up the buff bar (this might be my favorite)
-less time buffing / worrying about what buffs you have
I just don't see the big need for this change.
Lol, isn't this kinda like saying, "I like being broke because it frees up wallet space."?
Hello. I am a druid. A suggestion of this sort essentially ruins my class. Most classes can do without won and take focus instead. My hp buff is subpar so a cleric will be around instead, because lets face it - Who DOESNT want Aego? (If you say you don't, you're stupid). In a 2 healer situation, Focus is almost always going to be more beneficial. Currently I even use focus in most situations.
My ds can be replaced by bringing a mage for ds. My resist buff is ok, I guess, but lots of stuff cant be resisted anymore. My heals are not as good or efficient as a clerics. My dps is not as good or efficient as a clerics.
Essentially, really, the amount of rebalancing this would take is beyond absurd. I mean, just between Sanctum, Spires, Turuj, and the few high end 6 mans that I've been doing since I've been back, they're all balanced 100% around having every buff, give or take a mana regen buff that can be swapped somewhere else. Everything is so tightly tuned. Tuning, for example, Xi'Valla or Gloom around not having a JB in a group, or having JB in a group, is, hands down, absurdly ridiculous to even attempt. Then you have all the group exp content, questing that can be done with smaller groups/duos, and duo farming stuff.
36 man to 18 man was a positive change for the server. This buff stuff, not so much. Sure spending 15 minutes buffing a group is awful, but balancing for the different group possibilities is just an impossibly hard task that I can't imagine ever happening.
My ds can be replaced by bringing a mage for ds. My resist buff is ok, I guess, but lots of stuff cant be resisted anymore. My heals are not as good or efficient as a clerics. My dps is not as good or efficient as a clerics.
Essentially, really, the amount of rebalancing this would take is beyond absurd. I mean, just between Sanctum, Spires, Turuj, and the few high end 6 mans that I've been doing since I've been back, they're all balanced 100% around having every buff, give or take a mana regen buff that can be swapped somewhere else. Everything is so tightly tuned. Tuning, for example, Xi'Valla or Gloom around not having a JB in a group, or having JB in a group, is, hands down, absurdly ridiculous to even attempt. Then you have all the group exp content, questing that can be done with smaller groups/duos, and duo farming stuff.
36 man to 18 man was a positive change for the server. This buff stuff, not so much. Sure spending 15 minutes buffing a group is awful, but balancing for the different group possibilities is just an impossibly hard task that I can't imagine ever happening.
Dear devs, let me dev and let me design this to work in a single zone. Then let me implement it into lasanth for a week, then mielc for a week, then bq or cita for a week. I just want to end the speculation on what would happen if this happened and how different tiers approach it happening. The speculation makes my head hurt. I don't even want to see it get implemented full scale or forever, it just kills me not knowing. Sincerely, me.
Promise not to crash the server.. more than twice.
Promise not to crash the server.. more than twice.
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Miffy
Dalayan Adventurer
Imagine items that proc into the buff bar being useful, clickies that take a buff slot, short term buffs, self buffs....
These sorts of effects would be valuable again and obviously things would be rebalanced so you wouldn't NEED every buff at all times. Win, win.
The funny thing about this discussion is that it is exactly what was done to enchanters through shared mind. You get buffed for having a class in your group, it is also similar to a bard, their buffs are only around while they are. If all classes were like this it wouldn't really be game breaking, but it would be very different and take a lot of work. Since the major annoyance comes in grouping situations and having to buff for 15 mins why not make an NPC in major cities that you go to pay it some plat and it takes a copy of all the buffs you have on you. Then the next time you go to group you pay it some plat and it casts the last buff set you saved on you. Not game changing but deffinitely annoyance reducing.
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