A few paladin ideas

B

Bone

Dalayan Adventurer
I was hoping a new paladin style could be added which would use a shield as a requirement.

IDEAS:
* Protect a single target taking 15% of the damage for 30 seconds.
* Protect the paladin himself for 1 minute reducing damage by 10%.
* Protect a whole group reducing the dmg to each member by 10% for 1 minute.
* Protect the paladin himself by increasing dodge/block/riposte/parry.
* Increases aggro and blocks all incoming attacks for 15 seconds.


The Protection of the Lady AA can be useful but id like to see it have its timer reduced from 72 minutes. If reduction in timer is impossible then I'd like to perhaps see an additional effect added to it.
EDIT : This effect is even less important/useful given that a bard song now does the same effect and can be on all the time.

Id like to ressurect the idea of a self only ac/hp buff as well:

Self ac hp buffs: (target self only)
lvl 9: Shield of the Believer
5 ac
(20mana 180ticks 2sec cast 0recast)
lvl 22: Shield of the Neophyte
5hp 10ac
(40mana 270ticks 4sec cast 0recast)
lvl 39: Shield of the Disciple
15hp 15ac 1hp/tick regen
(55mana 360ticks 6sec cast 0recast)
lvl 49: Shield of the Apostle
145hp 20ac 10atk 2hp/tick regen 1mana/tick regen
(75mana 450 ticks 6sec cast 0recast)
lvl 60: Shield of the Preacher
235hp 25ac 20atk 3hp/tick regen 2mana/tick regen
(120mana 540 ticks 4sec cast 0recast)
lvl 65: Shield of the Confessor
450hp 30ac 30atk 6hp/tick regen 4mana/tick regen
(200mana 800 ticks 2.5sec cast 0recast)

Made some changes since they were last listed. I would envision them not stacking with Pink Heart Line or Spiritual Vigor.

Thanks for you time in reviewing these ideas I look forward to any input.
 
I played a paladin from live up to lvl 70, and played a paladin here to lvl 50 then i quited it and started a SK. SK have way too much advantage ehre over paladins, but the same could be said about live. Main difference about a paladin here and live:
+group heals at earlier lvl
+critical undead without AApoints from the start
-pacify is WAY weaker at the low lvls..up to lvl 50 i have tested, do not do enough to split pull as they do on live, that made paladins a desired choice for groups, specially in dungeons.
-stuns generates no to little agro, Stuns in life generate HUGE agro, and thast what most people are used to, when they come here they are disapointed.

when you weight the ups and downs in the scale, palladin falls flat, and here are the reasons:

1) Wiz said he wanted to make paladins best group healers *problem: while the idea is nice, paladins dont get to sit down and med like clerics do and the group spells can waste the paladin's mana bar specially at early levels* being this server that mana regen items is not obtainable until high end this plus becomes useless, way to fix this is a self mana regen buff at early lvls, or more mana regen items for plate classes.
2) I discussed already that plate classes are not getting the plate armor they need for tankage(at least up to lvl 52 that i noticed), if you look at the races that can be paladins you will see that they all have low to medium sta, as to compared to oger and trolls, or get the nice AC+regen bonus Ikzars get. So that is one of the many reasons why paladins fall under Shadowknights. And that is just on stats, another thing is that a palading with a cleric on a group the paladin buffs and most spells are usless, a shadowknight in any group all his spells are useful including having a necro in party.


*my suggestion is that if you like playing a tank that is efficient, grabs agro fast and is good here play a monk, or you could try a shadowknight for lesser dps and evasion like i did.*
 
Laksha said:
*my suggestion is that if you like playing a tank that is efficient, grabs agro fast and is good here play a monk, or you could try a shadowknight for lesser dps and evasion like i did.*
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Monks are absolutely 100% useless as tanks in the end game. There's a rare chance where they'll end up rampage tanking, but nobody wants that.
 
Pretty much what Liam said. Monks work great as tanks through the low or mid 50s--pretty much until mob damage starts scaling up rapidly. Barring a monk in high end raid gear, you aren't going to want one tanking mobs that hit for 150+, which a great many xp mobs at 65 do.

It's only pre-50 that monks are comparable to plate tanks at tanking, and that's because there's no plate for plate tanks--they're all wearing the same armor as the monks (wyvernhide).
 
A monk tanks over me on most occasions when said monk is in my group.

I believe that paladins do in fact need an upgrade in tanking and in aggro building. I can chain blind and chain stun and still a simple slow can pull the aggro off of me many times. Which is unacceptable for a tank to generate such little hate.
 
Bone said:
A monk tanks over me on most occasions when said monk is in my group.

I believe that paladins do in fact need an upgrade in tanking and in aggro building. I can chain blind and chain stun and still a simple slow can pull the aggro off of me many times. Which is unacceptable for a tank to generate such little hate.
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Hahaha it was fun back in Akheva when my 55ish shaman would pull a mob off of you by slowing it when it was at 80% or something =P

Paladins kinda got the raw end of the deal on the aggro changes a month or so back. When hate generated by debuffs was increased, SKs got a huge boost, since most of their aggro spells are debuffs. Paladins have blinds, which are still good (in most zones.......), but stuns (cease and desist) got the shaft. I can hit a mob with a cease and a desist and still have it peeled off of me by slow. With mobs that are immunte to the stun portion of the spell, the stun is still fair aggro, but a blind + a stun + a round or two of attacks sometimes isn't enough to hold aggro over a slow.

Also, there seems to be a diminishing return on repeat blinds. The first one generates substantial aggro, just like the first slow. Re-cast it, though, and it seems to be minimal. If I can hold aggro on my paladin for one slow, I can hold it for three or four in a row, in as many seconds, from the shaman clicky earring. Thus paladins seem to basically have one really big aggro grabber (that first blind) and then several smaller ones (the fast stuns and subsequent blinds). Shadow knights, on the other hand, have a whole plethora of debuffs, and therefore of big aggro.

I've also found that I have to work damn hard to hold aggro over an SK in the group if all he's doing is a debuff or two on each mob. I have to chain stun/blind for at least the first half of the fight, while hitting taunt as often as it pops, to keep the mob on me even a fair part of the time. I've had that happen even with SKs several levels lower than me, and comparably geared (when they aren't using taunt at all).



Edit: I should add, I really don't think the paladin class is bad, and I love playing my paladin. When it comes to most xp groups, I can hold aggro with minimal trouble, assuming the people in my group are comparably geared and aren't stupid wizards who don't use concussion =P But, since the topic came up, I just thought I'd express what I've seen in comparing SKs and pallies.
 
I'm curious, any thoughts from the devs on this or on the plate tank itemization brought up over in
http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5163
(end of the first page and on the second page)

Any indication at all? Whether it's "not a chance, we like classes the way they are" or "yeah, it looks like things need a little retooling, we'll see what we can do" or something in between?
 
Yeah, I'll see what I can do about plate armor in the high 30's and low 40's.

I'm not making any promises, obviously, but I'll take a look at viable places to work in some quests. I also have some things that are higher priority atm, so it may take some time.
 
killspree said:
Yeah, I'll see what I can do about plate armor in the high 30's and low 40's.

I'm not making any promises, obviously, but I'll take a look at viable places to work in some quests. I also have some things that are higher priority atm, so it may take some time.
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Awesome, thanks killspree =)

Also, would it be possible to have something the equivalent of the wyvernhide (if not player crafted, possibly something where you can trade in wyvernhide for a comparable plate piece?), so you don't have to spend a couple hours questing each piece? It would have been fantastic to be able to hit up the vendors for a piece every now and then when I had enough saved up.
 
Hasrett said:
Also, would it be possible to have something the equivalent of the wyvernhide (if not player crafted, possibly something where you can trade in wyvernhide for a comparable plate piece?), so you don't have to spend a couple hours questing each piece? It would have been fantastic to be able to hit up the vendors for a piece every now and then when I had enough saved up.
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I think at one time forging was meant to do this, but I have no idea what the current state of the tradeskill is at. I thought it was close though.
 
Bone said:
A monk tanks over me on most occasions when said monk is in my group.

I believe that paladins do in fact need an upgrade in tanking and in aggro building. I can chain blind and chain stun and still a simple slow can pull the aggro off of me many times. Which is unacceptable for a tank to generate such little hate.
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Said monk also has roughly four hundred AAs and a raid tier gear-wise on you, so the comparison is hardly fair.

That said, Paladins need some kind of upgrade, though I'm not sure if we just want to make them another Shadowknight.
 
Not asking to be an SK we all know any real pally wouldnt want that =p
I do think our stuns/blind should generate more aggro OR have the self buffs add a aggro modifier as well.
 
Hasrett said:
Also, there seems to be a diminishing return on repeat blinds. The first one generates substantial aggro, just like the first slow. Re-cast it, though, and it seems to be minimal.
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This has always been the case. The problem lies in the debuff overriding itself. Remezzing a mezzed mob, retashing a tashed mob, recrippling a crippled mob, and so on and so forth generates very little aggro because the spell is overriding itself. When I want to build crazy aggro on a mob, say for kiting reasons, I start with the low level version of a spell, then override it up the chain for fresh aggro each time. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work for paladin blinds for numerous reasons. One, you don't have enough blind spells for it. Two, you don't want to be consulting your book to switch them. Three, you really don't want to have a bunch of gems devoted to blind spells.

while hitting taunt as often as it pops
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Taunt gives you 1 aggro more than the person with the highest aggro. Don't hit it when it pops, hit it when the mob moves off of you and attacks someone else.
 
Thinkmeats said:
while hitting taunt as often as it pops
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Taunt gives you 1 aggro more than the person with the highest aggro. Don't hit it when it pops, hit it when the mob moves off of you and attacks someone else.
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Yeah, I know... I'm talking spamming it while the other guy has aggro. On the rare occasion that it worked, he would just get aggro back immediately because of his dots and whatnot on the mob.
 
what made paladins excellent CC tanks on live was the fact that even though mobs were immune to stun, the stun effect still went through on the agro list, giving them high agro, and instead of hitting taunt when they lost agro, many smart pally's would just stun to bring the mob back to them. this i think would help paladins tank in the end game without losing agro if stun generated more agro than it does and the ability to not stun high end mobs, but to at least be able to generate agro with stun. also i think paladins should be more defensive and sk's more offensive, as it seems to suit their classes better. allowing a paladin to mitigate more damage is a notable suggestion, just throwing that in there =D
 
now that we are talking about that taunt+1 that seems to bring another point that dosent make sence. I'm a SK and a rogue grabs my agro so I use taunt, the moment that that rogue hits again that +1 is gone and the agro goes back to him, thus now the rogue has to stop attacking and wait untill I get agro again, then he starts attacking again and gets agro again because any class can outdamage a SK/PAL with that said(basing it that Agro is obtain through DPS) the battle becomes an ANOYING agro pong, happens when grouped with monks/rogues and rangers ALL the time, Even when my SK has the agro buff it seems VERY hard to steal agro from thsoe who out damage me. Also seen ocations where agro is funky, and this is an scenario: I use life leach to pull, 500+ lifetap, the shammy slows, I start casting lifeleach again and lands, thast over 1k lifetap i done on the mob at this point agro still on shammy at 40% health(not the 20% low health agro) i start using poison blast and other nukes, shammy=powned and now it moves to me after i been hitting it/taunting it and doing heavy damage and fast spells. This happened in sirens grotto several times that no way in hell the agro gets away from shammy after slow. I think the agro from the highest DPS system while it sounds rational is not working too well because the classes that are ment to be the tanks and grab the agro from the weak casters/DPS are not damage, period. that taunt should have a +30 instead of a +1 lol
 
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