A few paladin ideas

In theory Paladins could have their aggro upped any number of ways--possibly a -1 ATK debuff on the stun spells, or multiple blind spells with short durations.

Also, you might try busting out good old level 22 root for pulls and then using flame of light to break it (just for the love of god don't blind the mob while it's rooted) or something. Not sure how feasible that would be, just tossing it out there because why not.
 
Laksha said:
now that we are talking about that taunt+1 that seems to bring another point that dosent make sence. I'm a SK and a rogue grabs my agro so I use taunt, the moment that that rogue hits again that +1 is gone and the agro goes back to him, thus now the rogue has to stop attacking and wait untill I get agro again, then he starts attacking again and gets agro again because any class can outdamage a SK/PAL with that said(basing it that Agro is obtain through DPS) the battle becomes an ANOYING agro pong, happens when grouped with monks/rogues and rangers ALL the time, Even when my SK has the agro buff it seems VERY hard to steal agro from thsoe who out damage me. Also seen ocations where agro is funky, and this is an scenario: I use life leach to pull, 500+ lifetap, the shammy slows, I start casting lifeleach again and lands, thast over 1k lifetap i done on the mob at this point agro still on shammy at 40% health(not the 20% low health agro) i start using poison blast and other nukes, shammy=powned and now it moves to me after i been hitting it/taunting it and doing heavy damage and fast spells. This happened in sirens grotto several times that no way in hell the agro gets away from shammy after slow. I think the agro from the highest DPS system while it sounds rational is not working too well because the classes that are ment to be the tanks and grab the agro from the weak casters/DPS are not damage, period. that taunt should have a +30 instead of a +1 lol
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You might want to rethink your spell selection there. As has already been discussed in this thread, debuffs have a greatly increased aggro relative to other spells--including DDs, taps, and DoTs. That's why shaman slow now gets so much more aggro, and it's exactly why SKs have an aggro advantage over paladins now. SKs have a wide range of debuffs they can use to snag huge amounts of aggro. Rather than wasting a lot of mana on heavy nukes and dots, go with your lower level debuffs.

You should absolutely not be losing aggro to a rogue who is of similar level and gearing. Just get up several low level aggro spells for 5-15 mana and recycle those ones. You shouldn't have mana problems, especially if you have even a rudimentary mana buff, and you'll hold aggro far better than using a DoT (which has very low aggro) or a DD (which is still fairly low, and quite hard on the mana).

The paladin Flash of Light, which we get at level 9 or 15 (don't remember which) costs 12 mana, and I would estimate grabs about as much aggro as the level 62 Words of Thunder, a 200-point DD + stun for 150 mana. A tank's main job in an exp group is to hold aggro. Any extra damage you can get out of your DoTs and DDs is a bonus, but that's secondary to keeping the mob off the casters and DPS classes.
 
I would agree that paladin's need some sort of an upgrade.. I would suggest a debuff type of spell so they can hold some decent aggro. I know Aratar tanks.. or used to at least for PR and his aggro was always shit compared to any Sk or warrior I've been with, and it wasn't because he wasn't casting the right spells it was because his aggro spells just suck.
 
I like the idea about letting stuns create aggro even if they are resisted. However, a stun's max mob lvl shouldn't be considered a resist or paladins would turn to be the kings of aggro.
 
Zhak Morris said:
I would agree that paladin's need some sort of an upgrade.. I would suggest a debuff type of spell so they can hold some decent aggro. I know Aratar tanks.. or used to at least for PR and his aggro was always shit compared to any Sk or warrior I've been with, and it wasn't because he wasn't casting the right spells it was because his aggro spells just suck.
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SKs some amazing aggro spells and warrior's AE taunt allows them to hold aggro nicely. To his credit, we did some amazing things in PR considering we had a paladin main-tank for most of it.

KAS
 
the funny thing about it is that you guys are pointing out about SK's having alot better agro than paladins, well i can say that is not that true as i have a lvl 50 pally here on this server and a lvl 52 SK and i can guarantee you that with either of them I cant pull the agro off a monk and end up in agro pong when I have a ranger or a rogue in the group. So paladins are not the onlyones with agro problems, and I heard from my friend a 51 warrior Abel he was also having LOTS of agro issues, seems to me that who can do the most damage can hold the most agro... saddly none of those are the tank classes.
on anotehr topic, I laugh at people that say Pal/SK are DPS and they go start one and buy them a 2hander so they can do heavy damage, a freaking rogue with rusty weapons can do more damage, or a monk unequiped, they are just not DPS, stick to the shield and get those block that help tank, the DPS you do with 2handers in a group is not noticed. Wars at least get dual weild and get nice attack power, so they get more procs and more damage and faster hits. So i will say that paladins and SK they need to have their agro spells up on agro increment, because thats what they use to get agro. also agro increment gear and mana regen will be nice, since my SK used to go oom trying to pull agro from my brother's monk, I gave up on that I let him have all the agro nowdays.
 
Most 'dps' classes have ways of reducing their agro to help the tank out. Rogues can duck, monks have FD etc... I think the only dps (kind of) class that doesn't have an agro reducer is mage.
 
diolas read my post on agro reducers, they really dont work because what they do is stoping from attacking to let the main tank get agro, the moment they go back in action they get the agro back nad becomes an agro pong, and if the group has to wait till, lets say the mob is 50% health so that the MT has enough agro build up, so that the DPS can join in without a worry of getting agro, that defeats the purpose of having DPS in a party. Diolas I noticed that you dont play as any Tank class and really you are not being supportive to the cause and many people are talking about this being a problem and all you are saying are things you have no experience to base it on. Dont want to trash you bro, but please dont be talking stuff you dont know about, just as irritated as you are about usless AA for clerics, we here are talking how gear for plate classes and agro needs work on for tank types. Noticed I havent posted anything in your tread asking Wiz to upgrade cleric useless AA's for the most part I never played a cleric, shaman/druid nad paladin is the close as a cleric as I have.
 
I, for one, can attest to ranger's aggro reducers (jolt line) being effective. Unless I'm doing something crazy, I never get unwanted aggro in a fight, and if I do, a 1.5 second cast fixes things for the rest of the fight 99% of the time.
 
Laksha said:
on anotehr topic, I laugh at people that say Pal/SK are DPS and they go start one and buy them a 2hander so they can do heavy damage, a freaking rogue with rusty weapons can do more damage, or a monk unequiped, they are just not DPS, stick to the shield and get those block that help tank, the DPS you do with 2handers in a group is not noticed. Wars at least get dual weild and get nice attack power, so they get more procs and more damage and faster hits. So i will say that paladins and SK they need to have their agro spells up on agro increment, because thats what they use to get agro. also agro increment gear and mana regen will be nice, since my SK used to go oom trying to pull agro from my brother's monk, I gave up on that I let him have all the agro nowdays.
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Do a little parsing, I think you'll find differently. As far as I know at least two 2hs weapons are better DPS than any 1h combo for tanks. It's not coincidence that rangers go 2hs when they want melee DPS, and they use the same 2hs weaps pallies do (at least the good ones). Tanks still aren't stellar DPS, but they aren't terrible either.
 
Hasrett said:
As far as I know at least two 2hs weapons are better DPS than any 1h combo for tanks. It's not coincidence that rangers go 2hs when they want melee DPS, and they use the same 2hs weaps pallies do (at least the good ones).
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I'll back up this claim. Pre-Klazka the only reason to dual weild for me was to add stats (which didnt do much, considering buffs and stuff) while arching. Even without any 2hs styles, rangers do more DPS and tank better (by better I mean as a whole, since keeping aggro sucks when you're only attacking with one hand) with a 2hs than dual weilding.
 
Also, Laksha, on the pally versus sk aggro thing, you're way off. You're using the wrong spells or something. SKs can snag aggro off paladins in a heartbeat, whether they're trying or not. God knows how many times I've seen it happen. If it comes down to an aggro war, an SK will win every time. I can chain cast a blind and 3 stuns, and never get more than a quick bounce of aggro with an SK 5 levels lower working to hold it. And that's not to say my aggro sucks, barring resists (at least, when Shurley isn't chain nuking mobs without concussing........). SKs are just godly at holding aggro.
 
yeah i switch from damage spells to debuffs and agro seems to e really nice except that shroud of pain gets resisted alot( and well was hunting in DN so i suppose those creatures are high resistant to shadow spells) was able to keep agro off the shammy slows REALLY good, but about <50% health of the mob the monk goes and grabs the agro again, so it works really good for gertting that agro off the shammy when slowing, made me happy. Thanks for those who offered that sugestion.
 
Oh about the 2hander thing, the point I was trying to make, is that for a pal/SK in order to do DPS to get some agro they will have to use 2handers, and that in most cases they will have to give up more ac/hp that a 1hander adn a shield will have to offer plus the ability to block. And using 2handers a pal/SK will NEVER be able to outdamage any other class that has the role of DPS for the group. Yes i think i went a bit too sarcastic, but I really dont care about pal/sk doing DPS, they are not supposed to, so yeah agro from spells, like i just learned debuffs do awsome.
 
Bone said:
Just as a note for you shields do not give AC they only give the ability to block.
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Does shield's AC at least increase the chance to block? Or is it the same to wear a shield with AC1 or AC52?
 
I think is the same as far as block goes, i think block is triggered depending on your Dex...or maybe Agi, I may be wrong but I know that my chances of blocking has nothing to do with AC.

As for what Bone wrote: I have 1051AC without the shield, as soon as I equip my shield it goes to 1109, with that said shields DO give the proper amount of AC, I really dont know what shield you are using that does not give you that AC you are supposed to be getting, check it out may be bugged.
 
Bone said:
Just as a note for you shields do not give AC they only give the ability to block.
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I'm kind of skeptical on this, because wouldn't that make shields almost obsolete? The point of a shield is to provide extra AC and stats while sacrificing DPS.
 
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