2 handed vs 2 X 1 handed - rule of thumb?

kukov said:
So from this it looks as though 2 hander damage bonus is rather gimp unless it really does scale with the base weapon dmg?

~3% bonus notta so goo

Thanks for the info Wesell
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He isn't done yet, those aren't very many hits, and it sounds like the extra time he is taking to ensure accuracy "killing the EXACT SAME mob to 20 and letting it regen" will make his trials more time consuming, have a little patience.

That said the bonus doesn't seem to be too much from what we've seen so far, I agree with you.
 
And remember 2Hers also have other bonuses: fewer ripostes, less DS hits, less aggro generation. It may be only a small % but with the other bonuses it adds up.
 
Allielyn said:
And remember 2Hers also have other bonuses: fewer ripostes, less DS hits, less aggro generation. It may be only a small % but with the other bonuses it adds up.
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while this is true, he's specifically trying to determine the "damage bonus" that wiz mentioned earlier, for dps generated by the player. In certain situations you might prefer to do less dps to take less ripostes or whatever, but we're talking straight comparison between the two types of weapons for damage generation
 
I highly encourage things of this sort being done and it's why, more so than not, I enjoy Wesell's posts.

I'll be intrigued to see the final outcome.

I am curious however, as I am most of the time threads of these sorts crop up, if Wiz watches these threads already knowing the exact numbers ;)
 
Cinn said:
I am curious however, as I am most of the time threads of these sorts crop up, if Wiz watches these threads already knowing the exact numbers ;)
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He is. I asked him to just tell us the damage bonus, instead of making people parse for hours in search of it. He said it was possible he might. He also said that Wesell is on the right track with his parses.
 
Mythryn said:
He is. I asked him to just tell us the damage bonus, instead of making people parse for hours in search of it. He said it was possible he might. He also said that Wesell is on the right track with his parses.
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Parsing is the better way to determine it. Sure Wiz could just say the code says X, but then everyone would just take it for granted and there could be a bug with it that never gets discovered.
 
True, but there are a lot of people out there (myself included) who don't take Wiz's word as law or fact. Hopefully Wesell finds the damage bonus and Wiz comes out and says 'Hey yeah, that's what this here code says' or 'Hey uh, the code says this, but your results say this, let's see whats up with that' as opposed to yet another thread sinking into the ignored oblivion of the SoD forums.
 
Wasn't the whole point that there could be a problem in the code and that parsing would be better since it might help find that?
 
Mythryn said:
True, but there are a lot of people out there (myself included) who don't take Wiz's word as law or fact. Hopefully Wesell finds the damage bonus and Wiz comes out and says 'Hey yeah, that's what this here code says' or 'Hey uh, the code says this, but your results say this, let's see whats up with that' as opposed to yet another thread sinking into the ignored oblivion of the SoD forums.
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If you feel valid bugs are being ignored then make a post with links to all the threads that have well run parses in them clearly showing that something isn't working. Until then drop the woe unto us crap, and shitting up this thread.
 
Tempus said:
If you feel valid bugs are being ignored then make a post with links to all the threads that have well run parses in them clearly showing that something isn't working. Until then drop the woe unto us crap, and shitting up this thread.
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It actually wasn't woe unto us crap, but go ahead and be defensive about it. Plenty of different threads with valid requests/concerns have been ignored. But that wasn't the reason for my post. I was commenting that I hope this thread isn't ignored.
 
Mythryn said:
as opposed to yet another thread sinking into the ignored oblivion of the SoD forums.
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It was right up until this part, and like I said if there are a ton of things that have just been completely ignored after being verified then make a consolidated post with links to those threads instead of just saying woe unto us the threads are lost forever!
 
2 handed vs 2 X 1 handed - further results

I tweaked my parsing script slightly by having it divide the crits in half to get the base damage of the hit. I'm posting the first round of new tests again with the crits calculated out.


Test One:
One-Handed 8 Damage Weapon (Base Damage)
  • Total Hits: 490
  • Total Damage: 10228
  • Average Hit: 20.8734693877551

One-Handed 10 Damage Weapon (25% More Damage Control)
  • Total Hits: 454
  • Total Damage: 11212
  • Average Hit: 24.696035242290747
  • Results: 18.313035478318998955126659984259% more damage

Two-Handed 8 Damage Weapon (Unknown Bonus)
  • Total Hits: 529
  • Total Damage: 11409
  • Average Hit: 21.56710775047259
  • Results: 3.323062160066192151257544003343% more damage
_________________________________________________

Test Two:
One-Handed 8 Damage Weapon (Base Damage)
  • Total Hits: 474
  • Total Damage: 10022
  • Average Hit: 21.143459915611814

One-Handed 10 Damage Weapon (25% More Damage Control)
  • Total Hits: 432
  • Total Damage: 11026
  • Average Hit: 25.52314814814815
  • Results: 20.714151089824618818311791930876% more damage

Two-Handed 8 Damage Weapon (Unknown Bonus)
  • Total Hits: 541
  • Total Damage: 11765
  • Average Hit: 21.746765249537894
  • Results: 2.8533898251941920243420406437685% more damage
_________________________________________________

Test Three:
One-Handed 8 Damage Weapon (Base Damage)
  • Total Hits: 574
  • Total Damage: 11699
  • Average Hit: 20.381533101045296

One-Handed 10 Damage Weapon (25% More Damage Control)
  • Total Hits: 450
  • Total Damage: 11456
  • Average Hit: 25.45777777777778
  • Results: 24.906098336989878108469564950084% more damage

Two-Handed 8 Damage Weapon (Unknown Bonus)
  • Total Hits: 542
  • Total Damage: 11611
  • Average Hit: 21.422509225092252
  • Results: 5.1074476040939631498687896395436% more damage
_________________________________________________

Test Three:
One-Handed 8 Damage Weapon (Base Damage)
  • Total Hits: 110
  • Total Damage: 2738
  • Average Hit: 24.89090909090909

One-Handed 10 Damage Weapon (25% More Damage Control)
  • Total Hits: 91
  • Total Damage: 2680
  • Average Hit: 29.45054945054945
  • Results: 18.318496696875077367366570375277% more damage

Two-Handed 8 Damage Weapon (Unknown Bonus)
  • Total Hits: 110
  • Total Damage: 2699
  • Average Hit: 24.536363636363635
  • Results: 1.4243973703433181674359886904061% less damage


We can probably say that the two hander bonus is 5% or less at this point. I'll collect some more data when I have some more time to kill.
 
Are you able to parse the logs while the game is active? I've yet to find a way to get around the file lock eq puts on the log.
 
Thanks Wesell. It looks like you were pretty thorough with your testing.

These show two handers to be...how you say? Ah yes....disappointing...

I honestly expected them to have a better bonus considering you are giving up significant aggro generation or a shield to produce more damage. This is especially distressing in the case of knights who have some excellent ratio 1-handers that are high damage. Aside from specific styles requiring a 2 handed weapon it appears as though my paladin would benefit more from just leaving a shield and 1 hander equipped.
 
Are you calculating your damage differential by time or total hits? If you're doing it by total hits, naturally, the slower weapon is going to appear to do more damage.
 
Naethyn said:
Are you able to parse the logs while the game is active? I've yet to find a way to get around the file lock Game puts on the log.
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You have to do a /log off before you can access the log file as far as I know.

shanoma said:
Are you calculating your damage differential by time or total hits? If you're doing it by total hits, naturally, the slower weapon is going to appear to do more damage.
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I'm not including time in any way. I'm not sure what you mean, could you elaborate?
 
Ok, that's the problem. When you run a parse, you need to do it by damage-per-second, not damage-per-hit. For instance, do 3 60-second runs of each weapon type, then divide the damage by time for each weapon type and average them, so you get an average for each weapon type. That's the only way you're going to see the bonus and get an actual look at the DPS difference for each weapon type.
 
shanoma said:
Ok, that's the problem. When you run a parse, you need to do it by damage-per-second, not damage-per-hit. For instance, do 3 60-second runs of each weapon type, then divide the damage by time for each weapon type and average them, so you get an average for each weapon type. That's the only way you're going to see the bonus and get an actual look at the DPS difference for each weapon type.
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Good luck finding a 1h with the same damage and delay as a 2h.
 
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