[Wiki] Mountain King on the Raid Tiers page

Rari

Rari

Game Master
I've protected The Mountain King page because there is apparently some argument over where he should fall on the raid tier page. I'm not determining which is tier 'better' for him right now, it needs discussion. Since the editors involved couldn't seem to do this without intervention (Jumbers asked very nicely) I'm locking the for a little while so people can discuss it. I really do look at EVERY edit, so it does matter to me when people clog that queue with revert wars. And aside from personal reasons, I'd like the page to be consistent from hour to hour when possible. The wiki talk page remains open for this discussion (use ~~~~ to sign at the end of your statement) but I am aware that MOST people do not pay close attention to current wiki edits so I am bringing it here to raise attention to it.

Previously, 6-man content was not included on the raid tiers page at all. When Mountain King was added, other content from Emberflow was added to the raid tiers page. The Mountain King's raid tier has been flipped-flopped back and forth between 7 and 9 by two editors. Adding NPCs to the raid tiers page involves editing the NPC's page and making sure the zone they are from is listed in the matching tier on the raid tiers page (and adding it if necessary.) If no agreement can be reached, or at least an obvious majority, I'll just go King Solomon on this, change the tier to 8, and leave it locked.
 
It's apples and oranges. 6man content should not be listed alongside the 18man content tiers.
 
With the perfect group setup id agree its T7, but with any other setup its much harder than that, and there lies the issue imo
 
You should just remove the tier lists from the wiki and leave it to be something argued in the shittier part of this forum. As a side note that guy who is editing all of those encounters has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. This was proven even further when he bumped the shadowdale content up to tier 12 from whatever already mistaken idea he had.
 
Draeos said:
With the perfect group setup id agree its T7, but with any other setup its much harder than that, and there lies the issue imo
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Which is why you see a ton of T7 toons running around with MK gear right?

I don't see how it could be considered anything but T9 as that is when everyone body I know that does MK starts doing MK, perfect group set up or not.
 
Please let me clear here. My involvement in the Raid Tiers page has been and remains to be moderation and cosmetic - I have no great emotional involvement in where things are ranked, as long as the information is useful.

I did not intervene in this change because it was requested I not on the raid tier talk page. That said, including 6-man content on the raid tier page most significantly, in my opinion, scews the loot by tier tables (there is a link to each of these tables beneath the given tier on the Raid Tiers page.) This could be revised by adding another flag to NPCs for designating them as 6/12 man only content (this would have to be =1'd by hand on ALL 6/12 man NPCs).

Furthermore, a separate tier page for 6-man and 12-man content could be added, since some editors seem to feel that content needs to be tiered (though I am not convinced of the accuracy of current tiers being given.)

But hey, that's my OPINION I guess, maybe people think 6-man t9 items should be listed with t9 18-man items. idk. Could be!
 
jew_nose_it said:
Which is why you see a ton of T7 toons running around with MK gear right?

I don't see how it could be considered anything but T9 as that is when everyone body I know that does MK starts doing MK, perfect group set up or not.
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http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=Rochee

The group that won this at the time of rochee was:
a 7.2k paladin (bango)
Rochee with 200 aa's who died before even slowing mountain king
Mystery Druid (flaahn)
Mystery Rogue (eyate)
Mystery Magician
Bard (facic)


Everyone at this time had very bad gear and the best person in the group was eyate with his full tomes and thaz gear. I am talking valor/ip shit/ed maps. I am pretty sure flaahn may have had full codex too but who knows. He had like 7.5k mana.

There may have been even scummier groups involving my sk but I cannot recall anything but this one awful attempt where rochee got loot and he wasn't even playing a real toon for the group. what a scumbag.
 
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I like having the 6- and 12- man content on the raid tiers page because it does in fact require a certain minimum tier set of gear to do certain 6- and 12- man content. There isn't enough of it to make it's own 'tier' page and what would you compare it against, anyways?

That said, a small asterisk next to the content in the raid tiers page could alert those who don't know that the content is 6- or 12- man only.
 
You don't see tier 7 people with MK gear because the clear to MK is significantly harder than the boss itself... I have long wanted to try to solo MK 2 boxing, but there's no way I could get there

lol.. who did the current 6 man tiering? Grand Oracle Yvieve - tier 12? Also, 6 mans shouldn't be listed on the "RAID" tier page... but it'd be useful to have them listed seperately

MK 7, MB 8, MT 9
4.1 7, 4.2 8, 4.3 12
Gloom 11, Rohk 11
Oracle 8 Queen 9 Harn 9
Ofgats 8 CC 9

I believe that to be around the design intent, but of course 6 mans are pretty subject to difficulty being based on group comp more than anything else.
 
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I think having all 6-man/12-man/18-man/whatever npcs on the same list is handy, so people can see what they want to go after for upgrades.
 
cian2 said:
You don't see tier 7 people with MK gear because the clear to MK is significantly harder than the boss itself... I have long wanted to try to solo MK 2 boxing, but there's no way I could get there

lol.. who did the current 6 man tiering? Grand Oracle Yvieve - tier 12? Also, 6 mans shouldn't be listed on the "RAID" tier page... but it'd be useful to have them listed seperately

MK 7, MB 8, MT 9
4.1 7, 4.2 8, 4.3 12
Gloom 11, Rohk 11
Oracle 8 Queen 9 Harn 9

I believe that to be around the design intent, but of course 6 mans are pretty subject to difficulty being based on group comp more than anything else.
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Mountain king clear is not that bad, there is a way to get to him without using a fd class to split that hallway and you can just power through with a lesser group by having two tanks and or necro bard.

I think you can make an argument that mistborn is easier than mking when it comes to the clear and the actual hurt numbers he puts out/requires. Its more about your group/especially your healer not being dumb and knowing what to do.

4.1 is baby mode and can be done way way way way way way way before you could do mking.


Either way I hate tier lists and don't think they help in anyway and this whole situation is dumb.
 
Yes, I think you can make a lot of arguments for various fights, but then the whole thing gets muddled and silly. Melek Taus is like a tier 6 fight with a certain group comp. I bet my guildmates and I could log on Goon Squad toons and one shot Gloom. But it's all silly and yeah it makes tiering 6 mans kind of hard/dumb.

It's a lot of "guys i beat this fight at tier 2 therefore IT IS TIER 2 I PROMISE AND YOU ARE BAD"
 
I agree tier lists are at best misleading and at worst responsible for a lot of bad threads.

Long live people talkin about stuff instead of slapping a number on it!!!
 
Comparing 6man bosses to 6man bosses is at least a worthy comparison. Perhaps making Tier A, Tier B, Tier C, etc. for the 6man content as a parallel but separate list would be best.
 
Tarutao said:
Comparing 6man bosses to 6man bosses is at least a worthy comparison. Perhaps making Tier A, Tier B, Tier C, etc. for the 6man content as a parallel but separate list would be best.
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Also I strongly agree that a 6-man tier approximation list that is separate but perhaps linked to from the raid tiers page could be very good.
 
The tier list is the best thing I have ever done period. People just need to take it less seriously.
 
okay well i changed all the 6 mans to more realistic tiers, except for mountain king, which i would suggest putting at tier 9.
 
Eisley is giving me a hand demarcating the 6-man restricted as such. It is being removed from the raid tiers page. The tier template will not display data from restricted content unless specifically forced to (and then it will ONLY display content with that restriction.) Only tiered NPCs should be marked as restricted.

A separate page for tiered content that is not Full Raid will be created. Loot from Restricted and Full Raid content will remain in the same Tier # Loot category and will be accessible from either page.

http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/6-man_Tiers
 
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