Well your down one.

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Alig - I don't like people who twist my words and then try to use their donation status as leverage to force me to change something.

If Cathis had just canceled his subscription that would be it, but he used it as a method of grandstanding. I'm sorry if you feel I should simply roll with the punches. I'm also sorry if you can't see the livid irony in arguing vehemently against donator benefits and then trying to use your donator status to get favors (policy changes).

We do not disapprove of discourse, as any quick browse of the suggestions forum can show. Cathis was not banned or punished for disagreeing with staff. All we did was to point out the fallacies in his arguments and the places where he was just being plain manipulative - do you feel this is a bad thing to do?
 
melwin said:
We have no problem with people who state their views in general.

We do have a problem with people who state their views when their views are uninformed, unsubstantiated, downright wrong and/or when they try to use their donator status as leverage for their views, most of which Cathis was guilty of. That's partly why the thread was locked (the other reason being we're perfectly comfortable with this as it doesn't violate our promise to only provide minor conveniences to donators and is otherwise having the intended effect of more people actually donating instead of talking about donating, and we were not being presented with any substantiated arguments for change either, for that matter).
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Now i've been made out as a 'guilty' person, when all i've done is express my views, and made an action, which was to cancel my donations as a result of my opinion.

Also two questions which i doubt will be answeared:

1) How many extra subscribers have you gained from Thursdays changes?

2) What next are you going to offer to people when you need more?

I still believe you guys have done great work with the game and i still want to continue playing, but i dont feel i want to donate aslong as there are these incentives are still active.
 
Cathis said:
melwin said:
We have no problem with people who state their views in general.

We do have a problem with people who state their views when their views are uninformed, unsubstantiated, downright wrong and/or when they try to use their donator status as leverage for their views, most of which Cathis was guilty of. That's partly why the thread was locked (the other reason being we're perfectly comfortable with this as it doesn't violate our promise to only provide minor conveniences to donators and is otherwise having the intended effect of more people actually donating instead of talking about donating, and we were not being presented with any substantiated arguments for change either, for that matter).
Click to expand...

Now i've been made out as a 'guilty' person, when all i've done is express my views, and made an action, which was to cancel my donations as a result of my opinion.

Also two questions which i doubt will be answeared:

1) How many extra subscribers have you gained from Thursdays changes?

2) What next are you going to offer to people when you need more?

I still believe you guys have done great work with the game and i still want to continue playing, but i dont feel i want to donate aslong as there are these incentives are still active.
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You're a "guilty" person because of your style of arguing, not because of the argument.

1) Plenty.

2) Nothing, really. We'll probably add some more toy items/things to the pocket plane (in plans is an npc that lets you use flymode in that area only, to play around), but that's irregardness of donation status.

"Also one question which i doubt will be answeared"

What was the intent of posting this thread?

Don't say it was to let me know I had one subscriber less, that could have been handled through a PM, plus the fact that paypal lets me know.
 
Harmless Incentives:

- 3rd name, title?

- Non effective Pet? eg. a wyvern/dragon pet? but it doesnt fight etc...

- New named mob, named after a donator?

- Dress armour? (Has no ac, stats)

Thats four non benifical things i thought of in a couple of mins, and things like these i'm sure alot of people would want?

Wouldnt you like to run round with Gorenair following you?
 
Wiz said:
Cathis said:
melwin said:
We have no problem with people who state their views in general.

We do have a problem with people who state their views when their views are uninformed, unsubstantiated, downright wrong and/or when they try to use their donator status as leverage for their views, most of which Cathis was guilty of. That's partly why the thread was locked (the other reason being we're perfectly comfortable with this as it doesn't violate our promise to only provide minor conveniences to donators and is otherwise having the intended effect of more people actually donating instead of talking about donating, and we were not being presented with any substantiated arguments for change either, for that matter).
Click to expand...

Now i've been made out as a 'guilty' person, when all i've done is express my views, and made an action, which was to cancel my donations as a result of my opinion.

Also two questions which i doubt will be answeared:

1) How many extra subscribers have you gained from Thursdays changes?

2) What next are you going to offer to people when you need more?

I still believe you guys have done great work with the game and i still want to continue playing, but i dont feel i want to donate aslong as there are these incentives are still active.
Click to expand...

You're a "guilty" person because of your style of arguing, not because of the argument.

1) Plenty.

2) Nothing, really. We'll probably add some more toy items/things to the pocket plane (in plans is an npc that lets you use flymode in that area only, to play around), but that's irregardness of donation status.

"Also one question which i doubt will be answeared"

What was the intent of posting this thread?

Don't say it was to let me know I had one subscriber less, that could have been handled through a PM, plus the fact that paypal lets me know.
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I stated a reasoned arguement to why in MY opinion these changes were a bad move, and put a plea for them to be removed. That doesnt mean that i would have made the move i did, if i wasn't knocked down by yourself a Melwin.
 
And to clarify why i cancelled my donations.

I stop donating becasue i didnt feel i could carry on donating, 1 becasue i didnt want to feel like somone who was donating for 'perks'.

If i wanted to really try and make a point, and if i had the cash, would be to take up a platinum subsription and turn down the 'incentives'.
 
To let people know how strongly i left about the changes you have made.

And I'd like you to look at the incentives i've posted, and why you cant do things like that?
 
Cathis said:
Harmless Incentives:
- 3rd name, title?
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Titles are special, but we did give Injektilo one for saving the server. :)

Cathis said:
- Non effective Pet? eg. a wyvern/dragon pet? but it doesnt fight etc...
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That would be pretty obnoxious and annoying to other players.

Cathis said:
- New named mob, named after a donator?
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This is Referral Point territory.

Cathis said:
- Dress armour? (Has no ac, stats)
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Shrug. Why? There's only so many ways EQ armor can look. It wouldn't look anything special.
 
Put a poll up about things like the pets.

And they were just 4 harmless suggestions that wouldn't uneven the playing field for the players.

Some more:

-Name colour changes, like GM green etc.. (Maybe client side, but i'm sure its not to hard to change)

-Name Newport/city guards after donators...(similar to Named)

-Name Quests after donators...Trial of xx

-Allow donators to request the look of their armour to change? Let a monk look like hes wearing plate, but hes actually wearing leather.

-Remeber later EQ had fireworks? Let donators have free fireworks etc?

Theres lots of things that could be done, that are non benifical, that has been my arguement about the changes, not the incentives as such.
 
Cathis said:
Put a poll up about things like the pets.

And they were just 4 harmless suggestions that wouldn't uneven the playing field for the players.

Some more:

-Name colour changes, like GM green etc.. (Maybe client side, but i'm sure its not to hard to change)
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You are mistaken.

Cathis said:
-Name Newport/city guards after donators...(similar to Named)
Click to expand...
See previous reply.

Cathis said:
-Name Quests after donators...Trial of xx
Click to expand...
See above.

Cathis said:
-Allow donators to request the look of their armour to change? Let a monk look like hes wearing plate, but hes actually wearing leather.
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For roleplay reasons, no.

Cathis said:
-Remeber later EQ had fireworks? Let donators have free fireworks etc?
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Fireworks are buyable in the pocket plane, now that you mention it. :)

Cathis said:
Theres lots of things that could be done, that are non benifical, that has been my arguement about the changes, not the incentives as such.
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And so far, we've had a decent reason for not having any of them put in.

You're more than welcome to make suggestions, though. We can't think of everything. :)
 
Cathis said:
I still dont know what you mean by 'Referral point Teritory'? lol
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It means it won't be given out as donator benefits, but as rewards for referring people.
 
I'm not sure I am understanding what's going on here, but I do have some concerns, even this is a tad bit off topic.

My only concern with these incentives is that the game gets too "commercialized" as it were. SoE has already commericalized their game, just type /pizza for example.

It sounds nice to give something back to the donators with toys and renaming mobs with their char names etc.

The main thing that bothers me is that it could be distruptive to the lore and storyline in the world of WR.

People would donate out of love for the game. Personally I love the game because of the realm of of EQ, as it were, even tho it's WR, a different setting, but brings back to the feel of the original of EQ before Sony ruined it.

Even if I donated, I would turn down the incentitives as I don't want them, I just want to play, even within' the rules and boundries of the game. I don't want special favors.

Just how far and "commercialized" so to speak in order to gain more donations in turn giving out toys and stuff for people to play with. Will it trivialize those that have low income and can only donate just a small portion of their money to help pay for the bandwidth of your server?

I don't see a "one time only" donation or just put down a certain amount besides 5 dollar on towards to 25 dollars a month in US money. I could prolly afford 5 dollars a month, but what if I don't have it the next month, so what happens to the incenitives the next month? Will it be taken away?

WoW has done with their special editions and has EQ2 just to please players. I am not here to be pleased, I am here to have fun. Toys be damned.

Yiz
 
Rambler said:
So what's the big deal? That Plat users can just go to the Pocket Plane, then get sent back to their bind when they're done? Also, that they can buy little toys and other incentive fun items?

Yeah, big fucking deal.

If I wanted all that shit, I'd pay over 300 dollars a year. Too bad I don't.
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Sums up my feelings.
 
yizuman said:
I don't see a "one time only" donation or just put down a certain amount besides 5 dollar on towards to 25 dollars a month in US money.
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FYI - you can make a "loose" donation at anytime - shown at the bottom of this page http://www.wintersroar.com/donations.html
Of course there are no rewards for loose donations, if that's what you mean, but you seem to be more interested in helping the server stay up then receiving rewards (as are many of us - I personally feel like having a free EQ server to play on where the people who run the server actually listen to the community is reward enough), so if you want to just make a one-time donation you can. I'm sure every little bit helps :)
 
yizuman said:
People would donate out of love for the game. Personally I love the game because of the realm of of EQ, as it were, even tho it's WR, a different setting, but brings back to the feel of the original of EQ before Sony ruined it.
Click to expand...

No, they won't. Stop repeating that pipe dream, we lived it for two years and it doesn't match reality.
 
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