Well your down one.
- Thread starter Cathis
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Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
Why did this warrant a thread of its own? I'm sure I'll notice from the email from paypal.
You just proved the point that most donations do not come out of love for the server by using your donation as a weapon for your opinions, by the way. Very grandstanding. Am I supposed to pay you for your donation by changing server policy to your whim? How is this different from what you apparently think is so evil?
"It's wrong to give any benefits to donators, but unless you do as I say I will stop donating." has a certain tinge of irony over it.
You just proved the point that most donations do not come out of love for the server by using your donation as a weapon for your opinions, by the way. Very grandstanding. Am I supposed to pay you for your donation by changing server policy to your whim? How is this different from what you apparently think is so evil?
"It's wrong to give any benefits to donators, but unless you do as I say I will stop donating." has a certain tinge of irony over it.
ThunndarrNameless
Dalayan Beginner
I feel that this change infringes upon my porting rights as a Druid....
OK, I actually could give 2 shits and a giggle about the psuedo-benefits from being a donator.
OK, I actually could give 2 shits and a giggle about the psuedo-benefits from being a donator.
Darkmidget
Dalayan Beginner
This is so funny, seeing Wiz use his super tactics of speakingness.
Seriously though, its a little teleport thing.. big freakin deal. I have played many games where donators got stupid outrageous benefits... this whole argument is pointless.
Oh, and if you havn't noticed Cathis, only like 1 or 2 people are agreeing with you... everyone else either likes it or dosn't care... every desicion won't please every person, but since only 1-2 people are complaining, I gotta say it was a bloddy good choice on the part of the devs.
Keep up the good work : D
Seriously though, its a little teleport thing.. big freakin deal. I have played many games where donators got stupid outrageous benefits... this whole argument is pointless.
Oh, and if you havn't noticed Cathis, only like 1 or 2 people are agreeing with you... everyone else either likes it or dosn't care... every desicion won't please every person, but since only 1-2 people are complaining, I gotta say it was a bloddy good choice on the part of the devs.
Keep up the good work : D
You pay real money and get some cheap port neck. You attend 3-4 dragon/giant faction raids and get a free port neck. I don't see this as unbalancing since port necks are relativley easy to obtain. Like it's been said, the gate neck isn't unbalancing since any class can: suicide, duel gate, final stance and have a cleric/druid/shaman/maybe necro 0% rez them back to the exact spot they were grouping. Plus, melee's can get the port necks, and casters already have a gate spell. A 100% weight reduction bag can be obtained in many places. The items you buy, toys moreso, aren't unbalancing since you can get scale of wolf from any shaman/druid. I don't have the money to donate since I have a "huge" student loan debt coming in soon, but I fully think that people who pay $25 a month, deserve something other than a scarecrow click item.
PROBLEM
I think the problem is that players get to return straight to their bind point. So if your not a caster class you basically get a gate option after hitting the bank etc. If people got ported to say newport or Thurgadin when leaving this zone then it probably wouldn't bug some people as it would be no different than SK, ToV, Grobb, Newport necklace.
I don't really care how donaters get rewarded but to say this port is just like the rest isn't true. I think the reason Cathis and others feel this is different is this port lets you return to your bind point when you exit the zone.
I think the problem is that players get to return straight to their bind point. So if your not a caster class you basically get a gate option after hitting the bank etc. If people got ported to say newport or Thurgadin when leaving this zone then it probably wouldn't bug some people as it would be no different than SK, ToV, Grobb, Newport necklace.
I don't really care how donaters get rewarded but to say this port is just like the rest isn't true. I think the reason Cathis and others feel this is different is this port lets you return to your bind point when you exit the zone.
I'd classify this 'gate' as a convenience and not anything unbalancing. Sure, a gate is nice, but how useful is it (over a port neck)? Almost everything is easy to get to from a neck location such as newport, or grobb. The biggest 'advantage' anyone can get is to save a few minutes zoning.
That being said, I think this incentive system is a great idea and completely called for, I think most people could care less if random_player_x can get to some zone a few minutes before them, or have a gimped version of SoW (with an insanely long cast time, mind you), or whatever hacks they'll have access to
That being said, I think this incentive system is a great idea and completely called for, I think most people could care less if random_player_x can get to some zone a few minutes before them, or have a gimped version of SoW (with an insanely long cast time, mind you), or whatever hacks they'll have access to
Tinkya! said:Cathis said:
I still think the pocket plane idea for donators is cool.
For $25/month these kinds of donators deserve a place to escape to. I see it more as a reward than an incentive. Hats off to the few platnium donators there are - enjoy your pocket plane. If anything, this whole incentive/reward program has reminded me that there are some very generous people out there, and without them I wouldn't even get to play WR.
-Sheck (A meager but happy Silver Donator)
Alig Proudblade
Dalayan Beginner
Everyone is entitled to a view....and thank fuck it seems we are still allowed to explress them.
I see no reason why Cathis should have expressed the view he holds. Similarly if hes unhappy he has every right to stop his donations.
Personally I have no real issue with it as long as platinum memberships are by choice and dont become a must have thing like AM3 and EQ for Rangers. At the moment I dont think it will - that said it needs watching and I have every faith that Wiz will do so.
I support Cathis, hes a RL friend. I support Wiz, hes a great guy. I leave Melwin to rely on his corset if he needs support tho
I see no reason why Cathis should have expressed the view he holds. Similarly if hes unhappy he has every right to stop his donations.
Personally I have no real issue with it as long as platinum memberships are by choice and dont become a must have thing like AM3 and EQ for Rangers. At the moment I dont think it will - that said it needs watching and I have every faith that Wiz will do so.
I support Cathis, hes a RL friend. I support Wiz, hes a great guy. I leave Melwin to rely on his corset if he needs support tho
Instead of Pming wiz your feelings and presenting your argument in a clear and adult debate, you are trying to soapstand for support . I have no respect for ANYONE who tries to use extortion to get game mechanics changed. Farewell to your greedy donations and your extorting ass.
So what's the big deal? That Plat users can just go to the Pocket Plane, then get sent back to their bind when they're done? Also, that they can buy little toys and other incentive fun items?
Yeah, big fucking deal.
If I wanted all that shit, I'd pay over 300 dollars a year. Too bad I don't.
Yeah, big fucking deal.
If I wanted all that shit, I'd pay over 300 dollars a year. Too bad I don't.
Alig Proudblade
Dalayan Beginner
Thats the spirit! I dont want whats on offer so Im not gonna pay!
Maybe donations are so you can actually play at all?
Its people like you who dont actually deserve to play.
Alig Proudblade
Dalayan Beginner
It actually very simple and I'd like to hear comments on this:
1. Its good that people are allowed to express a view be it one of being in agreement or one of dissaproval.
2. If you subscribed to a cable or TV channel and the channel suddenly change what they are showing you would have a perfect legitimate right to cancel your subscription.
If Cathis was cancelling his donation plan because the drop rate of Spectral Armor had been reduced in Kaladim I'd be pissed with him. In this case though hes done it because he doesnt like the change in the donation system. I'd like to see anyone put forward a reasoned arguement as to why this isnt an acceptable action (accepting maybe that he need not have made a topic on here to announce it).
Im sure over the lifetime if Winters Roar that Wiz has had to make a lot of changes that people havent liked and equally a lot of changes people have liked. Its also true to say that a change that upsets one person might be of absolutely no significance to another. For example the latest changes to Powerlevelling made zero difference to me and hence dont worry me at all. Other people however might have been quite upset by them.
I think, knowing Cathis well in real life, and hence having had time to discuss the situation face to face with him, that the underlying feeling of what he was trying to say is that whilst its maybe not that bad as of now that the changes almost set a precident.
Obviously the WR population is increasing rapidly which is taking the server towards its population limits due to simple processing power. I can see exactly why Wiz needs to optimize the donation stream to facilitate a second box.
Whilst I appreciate its not what the motive actually was, I can also see how the introduction of "perks" coulld me misinterpreted as a mild form of bribery.
I for one have made it clear im keen to help Wiz and to the community in general. My view is clearly a little more moderate that Cathis on the introduction too. I do however believe he was right to state his concerns - just as Wiz has a perfect right not to pay any attention to them. Freedom of speech is a great thing. It is good to maintain a clear line between people donating in order to obtain perks (as some people who have posted in this thread clearly see it) and people who donate just for the purpose of keeping the server up and running.
I find myself now seriously doubting that I will go on playing WR not because of any game related issues but because of the way in which people seem to react to views to which they dont happen to agree.
Im still more than keen to help Wiz out though even though I may well never make use of the possible improved facilities.
Chris.
Player of Exeter, level 38 Woodelf Ranger, now probably retired.
1. Its good that people are allowed to express a view be it one of being in agreement or one of dissaproval.
2. If you subscribed to a cable or TV channel and the channel suddenly change what they are showing you would have a perfect legitimate right to cancel your subscription.
If Cathis was cancelling his donation plan because the drop rate of Spectral Armor had been reduced in Kaladim I'd be pissed with him. In this case though hes done it because he doesnt like the change in the donation system. I'd like to see anyone put forward a reasoned arguement as to why this isnt an acceptable action (accepting maybe that he need not have made a topic on here to announce it).
Im sure over the lifetime if Winters Roar that Wiz has had to make a lot of changes that people havent liked and equally a lot of changes people have liked. Its also true to say that a change that upsets one person might be of absolutely no significance to another. For example the latest changes to Powerlevelling made zero difference to me and hence dont worry me at all. Other people however might have been quite upset by them.
I think, knowing Cathis well in real life, and hence having had time to discuss the situation face to face with him, that the underlying feeling of what he was trying to say is that whilst its maybe not that bad as of now that the changes almost set a precident.
Obviously the WR population is increasing rapidly which is taking the server towards its population limits due to simple processing power. I can see exactly why Wiz needs to optimize the donation stream to facilitate a second box.
Whilst I appreciate its not what the motive actually was, I can also see how the introduction of "perks" coulld me misinterpreted as a mild form of bribery.
I for one have made it clear im keen to help Wiz and to the community in general. My view is clearly a little more moderate that Cathis on the introduction too. I do however believe he was right to state his concerns - just as Wiz has a perfect right not to pay any attention to them. Freedom of speech is a great thing. It is good to maintain a clear line between people donating in order to obtain perks (as some people who have posted in this thread clearly see it) and people who donate just for the purpose of keeping the server up and running.
I find myself now seriously doubting that I will go on playing WR not because of any game related issues but because of the way in which people seem to react to views to which they dont happen to agree.
Im still more than keen to help Wiz out though even though I may well never make use of the possible improved facilities.
Chris.
Player of Exeter, level 38 Woodelf Ranger, now probably retired.
zodium
Dalayan Elder
We have no problem with people who state their views in general.
We do have a problem with people who state their views when their views are uninformed, unsubstantiated, downright wrong and/or when they try to use their donator status as leverage for their views, most of which Cathis was guilty of. That's partly why the thread was locked (the other reason being we're perfectly comfortable with this as it doesn't violate our promise to only provide minor conveniences to donators and is otherwise having the intended effect of more people actually donating instead of talking about donating, and we were not being presented with any substantiated arguments for change either, for that matter).
As for your comment to Rambler - and I stress this is my personal opinion, not that of the staff - I would ten times rather have a friendly player and active community member like Rambler than someone who tries to make their donator status an argument for changes they feel should go on.
We do have a problem with people who state their views when their views are uninformed, unsubstantiated, downright wrong and/or when they try to use their donator status as leverage for their views, most of which Cathis was guilty of. That's partly why the thread was locked (the other reason being we're perfectly comfortable with this as it doesn't violate our promise to only provide minor conveniences to donators and is otherwise having the intended effect of more people actually donating instead of talking about donating, and we were not being presented with any substantiated arguments for change either, for that matter).
As for your comment to Rambler - and I stress this is my personal opinion, not that of the staff - I would ten times rather have a friendly player and active community member like Rambler than someone who tries to make their donator status an argument for changes they feel should go on.
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