Weaken the anti-pug rule

fuwok

fuwok

Developer
Staff member
The anti-pug rule was designed to prevent pick-up raids (hereinafter "pugs") from running roughshod over the mid/low tier guilds in search of quest drops. It was also put in place because the former rule where 2/3 of the raid had to be flagged for the content was time-consuming for the GMs to enforce.

What I propose is that the GM staff amend this rule to include a Guild Mixer Provision wherein a majority of one guild and a minority of another guild (both guilds flagged/keyed for the content in question) would be allowed to cooperatively raid together.

Here are some perks of this plan:

1. It promotes social interaction between guilds.
2. It is easy for the Staff to verify that both guilds are flagged/keyed and does not send them on a flag/key-checking wild goose chase of 18 individual people.
3. It allows the friends who have been split up by guild tags to have raids together that are not backfarming raids.
4. Members of a friendly guild could help fill out an inadequate raid in lieu of boxing the same tired characters

What this plan won't cause:

1. Pick-up raiding sanctum all tank loot claimed
2. Diminishment of mid-tier targets
3. The general feeling of being excluded by virtue of players or by virtue of rules

This, my internet friends, is a proposed rule designed to let Novus and Goons cooperate in yclist if they wanted to, or my internet friend Nwaij come to Abyss with me if he wanted to. This promotes harmony between the guilds in the "non-puggable" areas and could also help minimize rotted high-end quest pieces, which are forced to rot at this point because it is forbidden to bring in a high-end buddy from a similarly keyed guild to take the piece.

Ladies and gentlemen of Dalaya: I am not asking you to open the floodgates and to bring back the Bad Old Days. I am merely asking you to amend this rule so that on tier players from keyed guilds can work together in the keyed zones.
 
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This is such a good idea that I can hardly stand it. Fixes a lot of problems. I can't imagine anyone who isn't a butt-hurt elitist being opposed to this.
 
+1, would love to see guilds working together! and rots not rotting.
 
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The big thing I ask from those of you who read this and/or comment about it is to try not to turn this thread into a war zone.
 
How are we going to determine the proper make up of a co-guild raid? Should it be 6/12 split or what? What is going to prevent a T11/12 guild from bringing in 6 ringers for a guild that is trying to kill Gens or Thaz1/2 or break into Yclist etc?

And what is going to stop a big bad tank from trivializing an on tier encounter for a guild? Bringing Nwaij to abyss isn't as bad as bringing lets say, Stryda.
 
A co-guild raid is made up of members of 2 guilds that are both keyed for the content.

With respect to your other questions, inter-guild cooperation isn't bringing in 6 ringers to steamroll something. If 6 people in another guild wanted to help that is very different than what the original anti-pug rule is supposed to prevent, which was using gearing shitty alts at the expense of legitimate players in keyed zones by claiming all the loot.

If a fight in one of these key zones is so easily trivialized by bringing a bigger tank then that fight should be reworked - nearly all of these fights have movement/large AEs and whatever else that prevent "oh sure just take Stryda" from being a fool-proof strategy.

Players working together isn't a problem - the problem was monolithic tanks from bygone eras being used to twink out alts and taking the progression content.

This isn't about that at all.
 
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You would simply have the guilds post that they have a co-raiding agreement prior, and its specifics. If both guilds are flagged who cares about the composition of the raid. They are both capable of the content.

Beyond that, the concept that low end guilds are shit on by pugs is a complete canard promulgated by players who haven't logged in 6 months and raided in 2 years. As an example, DOTO, who drops 3 of the best clickies in the game for casters/priests, has been up for over a month. Except for some small activity involving three bosses last week and a scribe kill monday. The only named that is always down is Shade. This is the same in every T 5 -7 zone I track.
 
this content has gone from being done by random people to "not being done", We have gone from having fun with friends who happen to be in other guilds to NOT. We have a lot of rules being put in place because "THOSE" people were having fun doing this content, but we really wanted "THESE" people to have fun doing this content. But it turns out that "THESE" people are imaginary and "THOSE" people are getting bored and quitting because the fun is being choked out of the game by overly restrictive and more or less anti-fun rules.

I think we need to have a lot less rules that are focused on whether things are being done as "intended" and more on whether people are having a good time. The server has been around or years and it is silly to expect nothing to ever change in regards to how encounters are approached. This overreaching attempt to force everyone to do things the way they have always been done and the way YOU did them is ridiculous and needs to go away.
 
You forgot the concern of a guild raid being disallowed from content like Valor B or Tur`Ruj because they hadn't done the content as a guild being allowed to have their raid in said zone if they all disbanded from their guild first and raided as a collection of 18 unguilded characters as a pickup raid.

That said, this proposal was already under consideration.
 
Tarutao said:
You forgot the concern of a guild raid being disallowed from content like Valor B or Tur`Ruj because they hadn't done the content as a guild being allowed to have their raid in said zone if they all disbanded from their guild first and raided as a collection of 18 unguilded characters as a pickup raid.

That said, this proposal was already under consideration.
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Good to hear this is being considered, but an easy fix to this is. Do what we had to do with claims, if said guilds want to raid a specific keyed zone, then they must Post under the open raiding forums what Two guilds and where they are raiding, if you want to get more specific make them add who they bring, and then if you really feel the need to check to make sure they are adhering to the rules you can check for yourself=)
 
I dont see any reason for it to be in Open raiding (beside letting the world know when stuff was killed...)
If that info is needed/wanted for the GM team, use /cm raidmotd that is logged and cant be changed.
 
kallemur4 said:
I dont see any reason for it to be in Open raiding (beside letting the world know when stuff was killed...)
If that info is needed/wanted for the GM team, use /cm raidmotd that is logged and cant be changed.
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i suggested open raiding, because it would no longer be a private raid, and it would make it easier for GM's to look into, or a rival guild that wanted to dispute bother there claims that they were keyed or idk. just suggestions
 
oozu1234 said:
i suggested open raiding, because it would no longer be a private raid, and it would make it easier for GM's to look into, or a rival guild that wanted to dispute bother there claims that they were keyed or idk. just suggestions
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Well the same applies for raidmotd... and since it is no longer required to go to Open raiding, why should an even more closed raid have to go there (having rules about saying in raidmotd what guilds co-raid stuff might be required, or not needed, whatever the GM's wanna have to make rulings)
 
kallemur4 said:
Well the same applies for raidmotd... and since it is no longer required to go to Open raiding, why should an even more closed raid have to go there (having rules about saying in raidmotd what guilds co-raid stuff might be required, or not needed, whatever the GM's wanna have to make rulings)
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Raidmotd was made for claims, im not talking about claims, im talking a GM being able to open forums and say oh lookie here these people raided here, lets check there flags. Rather then well shit i know this guild and this guild raided here i want to chekc there flags, but who raided there? now i have to look through logs and blah blah blah blah blah.
 
Tbh it seems much less crowded ATM in low tiers then it's ever been. My guild relapse we found raid targets up almost every day clearing misery se lower air and torment also adding a few perma up mobs to our List like underhill def and tarhasl of the depths in kedge. We just started mercy because I know the strata and will soon do powater and sod regularly. Getting our Zerg raid force geared up has gone well however in over a month of raiding every day almost have only seen 1 ancient drop. But that's besides the fact what I'm getting at is the server is low pop ATM and I don't think pugs are a problem least in low tier then again most people just ringer in t7 and up so I have no clue on that range. We've avoided ringer tanks unless you count drehar on a t3 mob but that's meh.
 
Not the before Fuwok beat all of ToT with goons one million years ago when fuwok was maintankin for goons. Learn history or you will be doomed to repeat it ok
 
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