Vendor System
- Thread starter Wiz
- Start date
Wiz said:This is a valid point, admittedly. Maybe we could allow people to view the stuff being sold even if the person isn't in the zone, just as long as they are online? All you'd need to do that way is actually meet the person to make the trade, if you don't want to hang around the zone.
There would be an advantage and a use for the trade zone, and people could easily hang around there if they like the EC style marketing, but it wouldn't be necessary.
Say, something like a halfdozen "lister" npcs, you talk to one and it stores records/links of the items you're selling for X hours, and people can any of the NPCs (there would be several just to prevent a single NPC from being mobbed) what you're selling, then contact you if they want to buy one of the items you're listing.
I haven't read much further than this, but I really love the idea. This almost reminds me of those kiosks that you walk into (or telephone poles) that are littered with those lessons to speak german in 28 days. if a vender was to merely run up to a giant tree with the image of a paper on it (Interactable NPC) with an inventory of bags labelled "-Wiz- bag" with the 10 items from your inventory that the satchel had in it, that'd be great. Maybe you could even click on the item inside, and see a price, but could not buy. That would make you still go for the hunting down, and finding of said person.
Next up, There is always the idea of making a zone JUST for trading. I don't know how hard it would be, but if it was like a giant auctioneer's place with a line of people on the left, a GM on the middle talking, and oodles of people in front of the stage ready to bid. Person A walks up on stage, lists the item, and starting bid, and people actually auction items off. You'd have the crazy people come in there challenging people to a duel every now and then if they can't make up their mind on who to sell to, with all those people waiting to get on stage so they can sell their item, and heck, maybe even trivia. I should really stop the ranting
[/rant]
One thing I would like to see, and I hope my idea doesn't bother anyone, is to for traders/buyers to voluntarily trade different type items in different now unused zones. Let's say one zone would be reserved for tradeskill components/items and spells, another for jewelry and quest items, the third for armor and weaponry. A fourth zone would be for the true hagglers that like to sell everything at once.
That way, people like me, who absolutely hate the hassle of browsing shops in the hope to find the one thing they need, could head straight for the place where they know they have the best chance of meeting the seller that has what they need. There would be no automated browsing, but everyone would have the type of items that the buyers are looking for.
In those specific zones the use of /shout would be allowed to advertise items for sale, reducing the /auc channel global spam. ?auc is nice if you are selling a single item, but for bulk use it's annoying.
This would maintain the necessary interaction between seller and buyer, while also adding the convenience of heading for a place where you know people are selling what you need. I am sure there's plenty of unused Live zones that could just be transformed into trading areas.
That way, people like me, who absolutely hate the hassle of browsing shops in the hope to find the one thing they need, could head straight for the place where they know they have the best chance of meeting the seller that has what they need. There would be no automated browsing, but everyone would have the type of items that the buyers are looking for.
In those specific zones the use of /shout would be allowed to advertise items for sale, reducing the /auc channel global spam. ?auc is nice if you are selling a single item, but for bulk use it's annoying.
This would maintain the necessary interaction between seller and buyer, while also adding the convenience of heading for a place where you know people are selling what you need. I am sure there's plenty of unused Live zones that could just be transformed into trading areas.
I think the SoD playerbase is too small to make interactive auction zones (like the EC tunnel on live) workable. There's just not enough people to make it worthwhile.
If we take the old EC tunnel on live as an example, it might have had 100 people in it. That would be both buyers and sellers. That's like 3% of the server population. If the same ratio followed on SOD, that'd be like 10 people at peak times. That's just not enough people to have a viable marketplace.
Even if there were auction events, I don't know that would work either. I recall some events like that on live and there were lots of people--maybe 300 or 400? So what is that, 10% of the population. That might equate to 30 people on SoD. Again, not enough people to make it work.
Yeah, if the whole server showed up for the event it'd be great, but I just don't see that happening.
The problem with the vendors is that the current implementation has no incentive for the pricing to be reasonable. I've seen Wvyern earrings that go for 5pp in /auction listed for 75 pp on vendors. And why shouldn't they? If someone pays 75, great! If not, they'll vendor it.
I think we still need to have /auction spam. It's how I learned about lots of equipment. And we need a way of offline selling. The playerbase is not large enough to support online-only trading. So here's how I think both systems can be improved:
How to fix /auction
-------------------
Create an auction satchel. Items in the satchel are designated as being auctionable. Create the following commands:
If we take the old EC tunnel on live as an example, it might have had 100 people in it. That would be both buyers and sellers. That's like 3% of the server population. If the same ratio followed on SOD, that'd be like 10 people at peak times. That's just not enough people to have a viable marketplace.
Even if there were auction events, I don't know that would work either. I recall some events like that on live and there were lots of people--maybe 300 or 400? So what is that, 10% of the population. That might equate to 30 people on SoD. Again, not enough people to make it work.
Yeah, if the whole server showed up for the event it'd be great, but I just don't see that happening.
The problem with the vendors is that the current implementation has no incentive for the pricing to be reasonable. I've seen Wvyern earrings that go for 5pp in /auction listed for 75 pp on vendors. And why shouldn't they? If someone pays 75, great! If not, they'll vendor it.
I think we still need to have /auction spam. It's how I learned about lots of equipment. And we need a way of offline selling. The playerbase is not large enough to support online-only trading. So here's how I think both systems can be improved:
How to fix /auction
-------------------
Create an auction satchel. Items in the satchel are designated as being auctionable. Create the following commands:
- /announceauction -- Broadcasts in the /auction channel all items which are in your auction satchel(s) both on your character and in the bank. Perhaps have a reuse timer so people can't abuse this. Everyone would see:
- Soandso is selling: A rusty dagger, 5 bone chips, earring of godesshood.[/list:u]
[/list:u]- /whatsforsale -- Displays a list of all items in auction satchels for players which are currently logged in (not the offline players). The list should only list the unique items. So if 5 daggers were for sale, you would only see 1 listed. Perhaps the quantity would also be listed. The output might look like this:
- Items for sale:
Rusty Dagger [5]
Cold Beer [22]
[/list:u]
[/list:u]- /whosselling -- Takes as a parameter the name of an item. Would then display a list of the characters currently selling that item in their auction satchel. For example:
- /whosselling Cold Beer
Cold Beer is sold by: Crow [10], Wendat [8], and Appver [4]
[/list:u]
[/list:u]
These commands would enable a vibrant auction market. It would allow a large number of players to buy and sell all kinds of items without endless /auction spam.
How to fix vendors
------------------
To get the vendors to price their items more appropriately, the rent to the vendor should be based on the items for sale. For example, charge 10% per week of the average cost of the items for sale. That would discourage people pricing 5pp loot for 1000pp or from having their vendor on forever with nothing good for sale. It would also enable people to sell lowbie stuff and still make a profit.
To get better vendor turnover, allow people to have vendors for only a limited amount of time (like 1 week), and then they have to wait a few days before they can get another one.
Is it possible to add more vendors? If so, add a vendor zone off of the city zones (perhaps the Bazaar) where all the vendors go. This wouldn't be all the vendors in the whole world. Each city would have it's own vendor zone. Perhaps you would ask the Banker to transport you there. Having more vendors would enable more people to sell stuff and prices would be more appropriate.
- /whosselling Cold Beer
- /whosselling -- Takes as a parameter the name of an item. Would then display a list of the characters currently selling that item in their auction satchel. For example:
- Items for sale:
- /whatsforsale -- Displays a list of all items in auction satchels for players which are currently logged in (not the offline players). The list should only list the unique items. So if 5 daggers were for sale, you would only see 1 listed. Perhaps the quantity would also be listed. The output might look like this:
- Soandso is selling: A rusty dagger, 5 bone chips, earring of godesshood.[/list:u]
On second thought, the /whatsforsale might need to be tweaked. There could easily be hundreds of unique items, so the list could be very large. Maybe it could take a slot as a parameter like '/whatsforsale ear'. Or maybe some sort of tag like '/whatsforsale tradeskill'.
I think the use of game commands as mentioned above to find items for sale is excellent. The search capability could allow you to find items by slot, name, price, etc... To keep trading interactive, a simple listing would still allow you to contact the seller(s) and arrange a face-to-face transaction and/or haggle further on price. The bonus would be no barrier to entry into the market, and a price comparison of similar iterms, both of which facilitates a more efficient marketplace.
What if twice a day, one for the east coasters, one for the westcoasters, or two for the addicts, a zone was instanced and it could be zoned in via a portal in the major starting cities, and when you go here there is an alotted time where everyone who wants something can zone in and hear all the /auc etc as well as having a command where items can be searched for, this way the hardcore old schoolers who love the haggling and social aspect of it all have that for an oppurnity for an hour twice a day and the people who are all about business (gotta get me the benjamins) can get in or get out, plus it will be more efficient, because for two hours a day there will be a massive free for all of selling and buying and good ol' fun. for the zones there might even be little mini zones, ie. behind portal number two its the weapons fanatics (buying/selling of all weapons), portal 3 the fingerwigglin spell-aholics, etc etc.
I dunno... just another idea
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I dunno... just another idea
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vender
hmmm how about every player gets a deed to a vender you take the deed to the market zone wich you hand to an npc
you get a clicky summon vender that acts like a pet you can give it items that can be searched for useing the live bazaar search tool
also the vender only stays active while your char is in the market zone
hmmm how about every player gets a deed to a vender you take the deed to the market zone wich you hand to an npc
you get a clicky summon vender that acts like a pet you can give it items that can be searched for useing the live bazaar search tool
also the vender only stays active while your char is in the market zone
limitedthoughts
Dalayan Adventurer
What about creating a zone that you can only zone into to sell your items.
This zone would have no exit, you cannot bind here you cant even port out. The only way you can get out is buying a lore / no drop potion for a copper, this potion gates you back to your bind spot.
This would create a hub that players could go and see to because you could translocate to that zone within any town but you can only go back to your bind spot after you get there.
It would keep up player communication but make it easier to get to the place your selling your item.
Heck maybe even make it so to sell your item, "Use Auction" you need to be in this zone to be able to broadcast it across the world.
Then in doing this selling items would be more of something for a player thats active and wants to do this part, instead of just doing it on the side. Even possibly making a market 99% stable.
Well thats my 2 cents. I hope this post does not piss anyone off and its just a idea I slept on.
This zone would have no exit, you cannot bind here you cant even port out. The only way you can get out is buying a lore / no drop potion for a copper, this potion gates you back to your bind spot.
This would create a hub that players could go and see to because you could translocate to that zone within any town but you can only go back to your bind spot after you get there.
It would keep up player communication but make it easier to get to the place your selling your item.
Heck maybe even make it so to sell your item, "Use Auction" you need to be in this zone to be able to broadcast it across the world.
Then in doing this selling items would be more of something for a player thats active and wants to do this part, instead of just doing it on the side. Even possibly making a market 99% stable.
Well thats my 2 cents. I hope this post does not piss anyone off and its just a idea I slept on.
I am a HUGE proponent of the old EC tunnel scenario in lieu of any sort of designed selling mechanism. Bartering was king and interaction abounded.
My only concern is that /auc being server-wide eliminates the need for a central place for trading. You announce your item or need thereof and when you strike a deal, you make arrangements to meet them.
I would be all in favor of making /auc zone-wide and picking a primary market zone in which people could do business.
My only concern is that /auc being server-wide eliminates the need for a central place for trading. You announce your item or need thereof and when you strike a deal, you make arrangements to meet them.
I would be all in favor of making /auc zone-wide and picking a primary market zone in which people could do business.
limitedthoughts
Dalayan Adventurer
Yes I agree.
The reason why I said a hub like that takes away the point that was stated before of people being out on a raid and auctioning an item off then the player waits for 3 hours to get his item, maybe longer.
As they said 75 pp to leave a group isn’t worth while.
The thing I proposed would make it so people would have to be in that area to auction so they are available for the players to purchase the item.
It would make it so players could auction off an item and have responses quickly efficiently and centrally located. The ones who felt they needed to clear out the bank or sell guild items would be in the same area and have player correspondence.
Also making no ports would make it so you went there to sell and not meet up to port. The guilds would still have to meet in different areas.
This kills the nexus idea because people will be going there to sell and buy.
The reason why I said a hub like that takes away the point that was stated before of people being out on a raid and auctioning an item off then the player waits for 3 hours to get his item, maybe longer.
As they said 75 pp to leave a group isn’t worth while.
The thing I proposed would make it so people would have to be in that area to auction so they are available for the players to purchase the item.
It would make it so players could auction off an item and have responses quickly efficiently and centrally located. The ones who felt they needed to clear out the bank or sell guild items would be in the same area and have player correspondence.
Also making no ports would make it so you went there to sell and not meet up to port. The guilds would still have to meet in different areas.
This kills the nexus idea because people will be going there to sell and buy.
Only problem with that are the poor merchants who can't carry all their stuff with them - I know if I'm out questing, I don't want to carry around three bags of the items I'm trying to sell. So although I might make a sale with someone interested in my current zone, we'd both have to traipse back to the nearest bank so we could transfer the goods. Which instead of one person leaving a group for 75pp, it's two.
And there will never be a way round complete server-wide auctions. All someone needs to do is start a SoD auction forum somewhere, and we're back in the same situation as now with /auc. Buyer is confirmed, arrangements made to meet, goods/money change hands.
If it's interaction that's wanted, to be perfectly honest you can't not have one central place for bartering, and still expect people to socialize more than if they're using /auc. I've never been on live, but the tunnel idea sounds like one of the few examples of a true role-playing, social area. So what if it's based in one zone? The mingling, socializing, role-playing would be really good.
Then, if it is limited like a previous idea to certain times of day, it still provides at least some spreading out.
There really are very few ways to implement a trading system/economy in a MMORPG, all of which can be overcome with off-game auction forums. All the ideas that Wiz and the rest of the devs/GMs want are very laudible, but not very practical.
My two pence
And there will never be a way round complete server-wide auctions. All someone needs to do is start a SoD auction forum somewhere, and we're back in the same situation as now with /auc. Buyer is confirmed, arrangements made to meet, goods/money change hands.
If it's interaction that's wanted, to be perfectly honest you can't not have one central place for bartering, and still expect people to socialize more than if they're using /auc. I've never been on live, but the tunnel idea sounds like one of the few examples of a true role-playing, social area. So what if it's based in one zone? The mingling, socializing, role-playing would be really good.
Then, if it is limited like a previous idea to certain times of day, it still provides at least some spreading out.
There really are very few ways to implement a trading system/economy in a MMORPG, all of which can be overcome with off-game auction forums. All the ideas that Wiz and the rest of the devs/GMs want are very laudible, but not very practical.
My two pence
limitedthoughts
Dalayan Adventurer
That is why I said possibly making it so if you do auction you need to be in that zone. This way someone wont be auctioning over in mistwoods when they need to be in riverval to get rid of the item. The zone would make it so thats where people auction from and where people meet up.
People can get there to talk and sell, possibly even see the banker but they wouldnt have to worry about much else.
It would almost make a new class of vendor because there would be no automated way of doing this it would be just people who had a hour to spare and sat there selling the items.
If you couldnt auction anywhere else but there it would make it so the mercants of SOD would appear in one spot selling goods and chatting.
I think that might not be a bad idea.
I know they dont want a zone made for a hub but it almost seems like that might be the way to go just due to the fact that in live even though the caverns were the main place before nexus. Faydark became one too for the other side of the world.
*shrug* maybe Im not projecting my idea right.
People can get there to talk and sell, possibly even see the banker but they wouldnt have to worry about much else.
It would almost make a new class of vendor because there would be no automated way of doing this it would be just people who had a hour to spare and sat there selling the items.
If you couldnt auction anywhere else but there it would make it so the mercants of SOD would appear in one spot selling goods and chatting.
I think that might not be a bad idea.
I know they dont want a zone made for a hub but it almost seems like that might be the way to go just due to the fact that in live even though the caverns were the main place before nexus. Faydark became one too for the other side of the world.
*shrug* maybe Im not projecting my idea right.
vender
i know alot of people hate it but you have to admit that the bazaar on live was perfect for what it was for and i dont think you will come up with any better ways if its not broken dont fix it
just modify it a little like having a bazaar zone with time limits
you can only spend 1 or 2 hours an EQ day as a trader that stops people being camped up as a vender 24 hours a day
or have a window that pops up every 30 mins or so if you dont click it then your trader ends to make sure the traders are active
people buying can just zone the do a quick search buy what thay want and get back to leveling questing ect ect
i know alot of people hate it but you have to admit that the bazaar on live was perfect for what it was for and i dont think you will come up with any better ways if its not broken dont fix it
just modify it a little like having a bazaar zone with time limits
you can only spend 1 or 2 hours an EQ day as a trader that stops people being camped up as a vender 24 hours a day
or have a window that pops up every 30 mins or so if you dont click it then your trader ends to make sure the traders are active
people buying can just zone the do a quick search buy what thay want and get back to leveling questing ect ect
limitedthoughts:
Ah, I see what you mean now. Even though they'd setup /auc to be per zone, people would only realy /auc with zones near to a bank, or that are already a focal point (like NP).
Which again comes on to the bazaar idea: even though /auc could work in NBL, everyone would stay in places that naturally become a focal point anywa (like NP). Although it begs the question: is NP (for example) a focal point because everyone goes there due to quests/etc, or because that's where everyone wants to meet to trade goods?
Ah, I see what you mean now. Even though they'd setup /auc to be per zone, people would only realy /auc with zones near to a bank, or that are already a focal point (like NP).
Which again comes on to the bazaar idea: even though /auc could work in NBL, everyone would stay in places that naturally become a focal point anywa (like NP). Although it begs the question: is NP (for example) a focal point because everyone goes there due to quests/etc, or because that's where everyone wants to meet to trade goods?
Joudas
Dalayan Adventurer
Course then everyone who's not in that zone starts using /ooc to auction in, which quickly becomes annoying as all hell to people who just don't want to hear that crap. So what do you do? Start banning people for trying to sell items in /ooc? I don't see that happening, and if it did, I'd have to voice the opinion that it's ludicrous.
limitedthoughts
Dalayan Adventurer
They would still be able to sell items in the zone specified though auction over the whole world. This would stop people trying to auction who just got to the king and still have another 60 min before the raid is over. They would have to be in the zone to attempt to sell their items. This would make a hub without actualy having a hub because the only place people could go back to would be their bind area due to the gate potion and not being able to cast spells in the zone.
I just think it might be a good idea.
People will not want to carry a bag full of items to just sell them in a zone without vendors.
My 2 CP
I just think it might be a good idea.
People will not want to carry a bag full of items to just sell them in a zone without vendors.
My 2 CP
Maybe bazaar isn't such a bad idea. With a limit of 2 accounts online at the same time, players will have to choose if they want to leave their bazaar mule up, or bring their buff bot along with them, as they can't have 3 characters active at the same time without being banned.
(Oh, I'm not really new, I played on the old emulated server, the name of which we are not allowed to use anymore, I just don't remember any of my log-in details for my old accounts as I have not used them in so long and I don't know how to retrieve them)
(Oh, I'm not really new, I played on the old emulated server, the name of which we are not allowed to use anymore, I just don't remember any of my log-in details for my old accounts as I have not used them in so long and I don't know how to retrieve them)
I love the idea of having a "bazaar" in a specific zone sponsored initally by the Game Staff. Small challenges and events would add a bit to the game. Also, if you wanted, you could have "vendors" or NPCs in the "bazaar" area that a player could use to "place" an item on. Therefore, if a player clicked on a "vendor" the player could search around the items and see if there's anything that catches their eye. As they click on the item, instead of listing the price, it could list who posted the item and what they are asking for it.
IE:
Rusty Dagger
Seller: Marshall
Offer: 50pp, trade OBO
Or something similar. I'm not too sure how difficult it would be to implement.
-Kreigore
IE:
Rusty Dagger
Seller: Marshall
Offer: 50pp, trade OBO
Or something similar. I'm not too sure how difficult it would be to implement.
-Kreigore