UC tweaking in response to Thaz removal

Abelfaec

Abelfaec

Dalayan Adventurer
This is an Abel post, but I'm not roided out or on any drugs, and I'll take the time to edit my post before i hit submit, that being said please be respectful.

This is a post about my sadness in the void of content that was thaz, and the staggered progression i have seen specifically for healers.

Cleric tiers 7-10 progression with healing inc almost entirely depends on ToT content, as the alternate provided was LT air ring. Pfrost offers no alternative. UC offers a slight alternative, wile still only healing inc 6, it's stats are more on line with tier 8-9 content despite it being a lower caliber focus. A sidestep is offered by Chaotic Elemental Shroud as a small ToT Gens breastplate, but even the flagging and progression for this side step is riddled with bugs making it inaccessible to most players.

Healing increment 7 is provided for druids by clockwork's bloodstained finery.

My suggestion is to get serious by at least asking for what voids were created by the Thaz tower removal and potentially tweaking existing items small amounts to help fill this void, or take a dumbing down of UC difficulty or strenuousness to obtain access making it at least a viable option for most people to progress through; rather than gearing method for guilds that have already progressed beyond and use old flagged chars.

Maybe even small steps into both, but this void exists, and i know there's Thaz tower overhauls underway, but honestly I'm not sure it's necessary, as all the problems were valid, but i feel the move towards "fixing" it is only being driven by a need to fill a gap that can be filled another way. These tiers are dependent on progressing either PoFrost, Tower of Tarhyl, or UC, and what used to be thaz.

Now the only correct progression for non-druid healers' healing increment between tiers 7-10 with healing inc is offered by Tower of Tarhyl, this is just out of whack.
 
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IP has HI7 gloves, I believe from Gharantosh.

Also the upgraded Tmap shield has HI7 95mana and 3FT, which is plenty good until T9+.
 
Undercity is less hard than Farhag wing in ToT. You will never be able to pug it by taking random characters with 3000 hit points, though.
 
Yes but the barriers to entry of UC are so much higher, I personally have access (only just recently b/c Draeos gave it to me, and not to do UC with) to a toon (Mgkida) that has an UC key, but I honestly couldn't name another on the server. But anyone with a wizard can do ToT.
 
Nothing about UC should be changed, its a challenging zone and it has good rewards for people devoted enough to do it.
 
UC is definitely balanced fine and is on tier assuming you have a decent raid of t8-9 dudes. Like not people with 200 AAs and not great gear and a ringer or two to try to hold it all together. It is slightly harder then some of the easy tier 9 stuff (there is only one tier 8 boss and he is maybe considered a very easy tier 9). However UC isn't that hard compared to the tier 9 stuff in yclist (which is definitely way harder then any other tier 9 stuff). UC is pretty comparable to farhags and the tough bosses in PoFrost and I feel it is on tier.

As far as cleric healing increment VII items... the upgraded tmap orb is really easy to get if you can run any tier 8 zone to begin with. Also whats wrong with doing IP for the gloves or gorzenath for the chest piece?

Really if any zone needs to be toned down just a tid bit is yclist. That zone is definitely tier 10 not tier 9. Shit is rough and was probably playtested with dudes with better then tier 9 gear.
 
aardvark10k said:
UC is definitely balanced fine and is on tier assuming you have a decent raid of t8-9 dudes. Like not people with 200 AAs and not great gear and a ringer or two to try to hold it all together. It is slightly harder then some of the easy tier 9 stuff (there is only one tier 8 boss and he is maybe considered a very easy tier 9). However UC isn't that hard compared to the tier 9 stuff in yclist (which is definitely way harder then any other tier 9 stuff). UC is pretty comparable to farhags and the tough bosses in PoFrost and I feel it is on tier.
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What I am saying is that there isn't an option for healing inc 7 as a progression here and maybe the armlets of transmigration need to see a focus tweak. Maybe serizus' bracer could use a foci, healing inc would successfully fill the tiers. I'm not saying this zone is too hard, i'm saying it doesn't offer comparable progression. So it should either be made easier ot offer more rounded options.

aardvark10k said:
As far as cleric healing increment VII items... the upgraded tmap orb is really easy to get if you can run any tier 8 zone to begin with. Also whats wrong with doing IP for the gloves or gorzenath for the chest piece?
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I understand the tmap quest shield -works- for a little while, but I don't feel it offers an alternative to genuine progression, and as i understand that's not really the point of this item nor it's alternate version for the different archetypes.

Gorzenath is was regarded as a bonus mob, that is obscure and difficult to find, and remember hearing dev confession is not intended for the majority of players to see. The pofire progression is still choppy, and multiple quest items still lead to dead ends making the final stages just beyond most players

IP gloves i genuinely forgot about, I don't like them, but that makes there potentially 2 options, still a vary small number in my mind :/

I also only think UC is easier than redsun, not all of farhags. Anyone saying UC is easier than farhags would be denying the point of folreihts gatekeeper status to a bunch of obviously free loot for a gear and competency check.
 
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Otcho said:
http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Terror
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Really not sure if this old veteran is an attempt to create a second use for a zone as a -clear with group for days- then bring bigger group to kill this target once it pops if it pops, or if it's just extra loot for t10+ farming the zone.

I won't argue that it would meet the requirements for a t8 healer, i'm just saying it's not accesible to a genuinely progressing one. This is for back gearing healers alts you do upper floor rotation with, or if you happen to be incredibly lucky and see this pop after a group cleared for it and by some fluke didn't realize it and left it up.

It may be designed as 18 man content for t7-8's, but I don't feel that's obvious as most of the content in this zone is designed exclusively for 6 man. However if this is the case then maybe some clarification is due.
 
I have that neck on my cleric but it's not a really very realistic option due to how rare old veteran is and the fact that A tier 8-9 6man group is not going to be able kill him. I guess you could form a raid if you spawn him and get destroyed, but that's still a long shot. He has a point about lack of cleric usable heal increment 7 options there. The lower thaz air ring used to be "it" for a very long stretch of time because the gloves in IP are bad.

But Undercity is not really all that much harder than similar tier things. It just has nasty trash clears that suck. The only real "barrier to entry" to the zone is camping the one item you need four of because the droprate is garbage.
 
I've never understood the VI focuses in UC either, but I don't think it really matters. Every healer should be running around with the upg. Vah offhand by like tier4, it would be silly not to.

In other news, the entry for UC isn't a difficult quest, just a time consuming one. Some of the trash is quite challenging on tier and you deffo can't just zerg it with a pug. I believe I've seen one UC pug ever and it took 2 hours to get to commitee.

My only real complaint was having to clear the first three+the entire zones's worth of trash to do Reaver/Serz, esp. when your guild no longer needs many of the meh items off Leech.
 
Zapple said:
But Undercity is not really all that much harder than similar tier things. It just has nasty trash clears that suck. The only real "barrier to entry" to the zone is camping the one item you need four of because the droprate is garbage.
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1. The fiend sinews are misleading in name, they don't drop off fiends, they drop off horrors. Calling them fiend sinews and having mobs called fiends but not having them drop the QP is dumb.

2. The only viable option for these sinews is West side of the chasm, and the aoe KB the horrors do likes to kill people. It not only takes mind grinding long hours, it takes sincere focus to actually accomplish

After all this nerve wracking work you get 1 char access to a zone that ends up being arguably more annoying to pull trash then ones you can port directly too with a spell you can buy using the listsold system on most given days.

I just feel the reward for healers in this zone is weak, and it should have a more viable healer healing inc item.


If healing increment 7 is supposed to be this hard to find, I just don't understand why Cw's bp has it for druids for much less hassle at a lower tier.
 
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Abelfaec said:
If healing increment 7 is supposed to be this hard to find, I just don't understand why Cw's bp has it for druids for much less hassle at a lower tier.
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I do agree that there should be more options for healing increment VII for a cleric. Maybe bump the UC arms up to healing inc VII and add a healing inc VII item in PoFrost.

As far as making UC easier though... it seems ok to me.
 
Show me a cleric between tiers four and eight without Healing Inc 7 that would not benefit overall from getting the upgrade treasure map offhand, an item you can wear up to tier ten.
 
I'm pretty sure the HI6 on the arms is because they're all/all and would be a one-stop-shop for easy HI7 otherwise.

CW bp is probably just the product of the arms war Woldaff and TM were having when designing zones at that time, also in my experience it is super rare. Maybe that's not the case.

UC is a really solid zone and you only need one person to put in that time investment to gain entry for an entire raid, that's seriously not a bad deal, to make the mobs easier (aka tank and spank) so that pugs could waltz around in there would be terrible and lets be honest if you're dying to the trash you're probably going to be dying to the fights anyways.

I am now hijacking your thread (in case Zaela is reading it and is not utterly disgusted by this point) to mention that I have always felt like Sandals of Spiritual Emancipation did not have enough of a stat advantage over Oozing Leechskin Sandals considering one is from a fairly involved quest and the other is a drop from one of the easier mobs in the zone. I've also always thought it would be cool if priests received a separate bracer reward from int casters (actually maybe stick enc with the priests) that casts an Enthann's Guard style beneficial that allows the recipient to proc spiritual breach since druids and clerics do not have much luxury to cast damaging spells on a raid but really that is a minor issue and might not mesh well with the nature of the quest/lore behind the items.
 
First I'll respond to Gerick's post before I forget, heh. Yeah, the monk reward, and I think it has maybe rogue and one other? is a throwing item, and throwing is kinda not very useful in this game. All of the other rewards are nice, some more than others (although actually after re-reading this post and the above I do remember our wis casters not being very impressed with their reward, some even bagging it from the get-go), even if only for a brief time, but really the only time I ever used the monk reward was against Raptor. The Ranger and other class sandals I think that were just mentioned even have monk on them, but we can't get them. It would be nice if we could at least have the option to do one of those turn in swap outs like in diety augs, etc. and yeah comparing the quest sandals with the oozing ones, it kinda reminds me of the platinum band of shojar vs the ring that horshint drops.

On topic I personally think UC is fine. Novus farmed the hell out of it and we keyed double digit characters, so considering the reward, not even the final, but just entry, I think one or two long sessions to farm your sinews isn't that bad. The KB cliff mobs aren't that bad. Just stay wallside or beef up your mr and ignore it. As was mentioned, you only need one key anyway. Personally I'd love those arms to be heal inc 7 instead of 6, but I have them on both characters, so imo they're not all that hard to get. And the thing is, the entry to two different zones doesn't have to be the same. It doesn't matter one bit that one takes a port and one takes a key. They're two different targets. When ToT mobs are down or claimed, UC is an alternative. Now as for the spreading out of Thaz into other zones, I do still think this could use a little work, like the ToT weapon stones only being now on a low tier raid mob (that I'm aware of) suddenly adding another vah-like bottleneck to the ToT weapon quest. That being said, we only have so many devs with so much time.
 
Put healers on serisuz drum, put heal inc 7 on drum. maybe make it primary usable??
 
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Clerics dont need heal inc 7 anyways. As a compromise they could add 5 alteration to the uc arms. Then they're heal inc ~6.4
 
Raxton said:
Clerics dont need heal inc 7 anyways. As a compromise they could add 5 alteration to the uc arms. Then they're heal inc ~6.4
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This would be cool and would make them useful even if a person already has healing increment VII. Having an all/all healing inc VII item at tier 9 is pretty overpowered. Maybe add a CLR/DRU/SHM usable healing inc VII item in there to make up for it though.
 
aardvark10k said:
This would be cool and would make them useful even if a person already has healing increment VII. Having an all/all healing inc VII item at tier 9 is pretty overpowered. Maybe add a CLR/DRU/SHM usable healing inc VII item in there to make up for it though.
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would adding healing inc 7 to serizus's bracer really be that out of line? it's int caster/healer only isn't it?

maybe discussion of changing a pofrost item to hi7 is a more realistic conversation? I don't know, i don't do pofrost that much
 
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