Traekoth & You... Is He Overpowered?
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shanara99
Dalayan Beginner
Actually, the FT 15 is a combination of many common things... including mana regen pots =P I accidentally found that combination when my JB faded mid-raid, and no chanter was close... I started asking for "any mana regen you have" and I found myself with as much mana regen than I'd have... and all those items were usable, and easilly attainable for a level 57.
Now, I know you think motss is high end, but he's actually low tier. It has been done by pickup raids, with only 2 or 3 geared chars... but that's not my point... my point is that Traekoth IS high end on adepts. Motss would be like sludgebreath, maybe. But Traekoth is like Ulazzaria... You're gonna need really dedicated people to down it, and probably you'll fail a few too many times. And yes... Rust 1 group has SOME mobs inmune to wizards... totally inmune, which means that, for those adds, they do nothing but look cute... And poor froglocks aren't cute, even! And yes, they have caster loot. Traekoth is not inmune... is just insanely hard. WHAT made it that hard? from what you tell us, healers were oom too fast... but they were healing too many people.
I'm a cleric myself, and, usually, I take the role of Group healer (on main tank group), which means I'm in the middle of the AoE, getting damaged. But, this kind of healing is far more effective than it seems, specially, if you have padders set on meleers, and you just cast an AoE when everyone is low (or is gonna be low when heal lands). For low level raids (or easy targets) you can just go there, and burn some mana... but, on high level raids you have to time your heals, and, sometimes, this means 150 % skill, yes...
BUT that's why rewards from one of such encounters is that high. Let's take a named, for example, Scribe Athos, in sepulcher. He has almost no clean to him, and some silly AoEs... rewards from him are a little sub-par for the zone, yes, but the challenge rating for him is also lower than the zone. Now let's look at Disciple of the Order. You need hours and hours of cleaning trash... is harder if some other mobs are up, and you even have to clear a 6x pull to get to him. Furthermore, he is a multi-part event and the fight against him is actually hard (for its level). Rewards for priming this encounter are definetly over-par for the zone... but also the challenge rating.
So traek now seems a little too hard... I recall a time, when 2.0 was introduced, that Taesh was a little too hard... Was actually doable, but HARD as hell... he was tweaked, and he became like definetly TOO darned easy, so he had to be tweaked back. My point here is that Traek is hard, yes... but I still think it is doable, for someoen who has been getting prepared for him. It seems now there's another adept higher than him... which makes him second highest adept... which means that, once you beat him, and you beat next adept, you've finished with adept raiding! (can't see much point on an adept level 64 to engage, for example... and level 65 to engage would be normal raid) So, you guys are in the END GAME, but in the FINAL END GAME, which, imo, justifies it being harder than expected.
Also, after reading them numbers on the other post... 560 dps may seem high, but isn't beyond what a good healing squad should be able to heal at 57. I think your main issue was too much people being damaged, and not an optimal healing system. Also, were you using mana potions? did any of you had larvaes (or canni shoulders, but since those are pot raid, doubt it)? A good ammount of modrods (meleers can always pass one to a healer midfight) Mana potion, plus modrod makes a good ammount of mana. Did you guys had clickable nukes? stocking on Blazing veils to be mass clicked on that fight seems a good idea to me...
My point here is that traek should be really, REALLY almost unbeatable, except by people prepared for him, and them, he should be a hard fight... since you'll be doing pounders next, then, it's bye bye adepts. Grats, you beat the game. Wouldn't you be dissapointed if last fight was too easy? Cause I know I'd be. I was dissapointed at first when fire mini in thaz was easier than Fie boss (fire boss was bugged around that time). I also was dissapointed when a bug dealt 52 % damage to earth boss.. And was dissapointed when logistician drone wasn't working yet when we tested mercury.. Mostly cause, even if we won... we won... "cheating". Not that we wanted to cheat, but still... Same can be said about Traek. Beating him should make you feel like a milion dollars bill, and, in order to do that, he HAS to be hard.
In any case... what tweaking would you propose?
Now, I know you think motss is high end, but he's actually low tier. It has been done by pickup raids, with only 2 or 3 geared chars... but that's not my point... my point is that Traekoth IS high end on adepts. Motss would be like sludgebreath, maybe. But Traekoth is like Ulazzaria... You're gonna need really dedicated people to down it, and probably you'll fail a few too many times. And yes... Rust 1 group has SOME mobs inmune to wizards... totally inmune, which means that, for those adds, they do nothing but look cute... And poor froglocks aren't cute, even! And yes, they have caster loot. Traekoth is not inmune... is just insanely hard. WHAT made it that hard? from what you tell us, healers were oom too fast... but they were healing too many people.
I'm a cleric myself, and, usually, I take the role of Group healer (on main tank group), which means I'm in the middle of the AoE, getting damaged. But, this kind of healing is far more effective than it seems, specially, if you have padders set on meleers, and you just cast an AoE when everyone is low (or is gonna be low when heal lands). For low level raids (or easy targets) you can just go there, and burn some mana... but, on high level raids you have to time your heals, and, sometimes, this means 150 % skill, yes...
BUT that's why rewards from one of such encounters is that high. Let's take a named, for example, Scribe Athos, in sepulcher. He has almost no clean to him, and some silly AoEs... rewards from him are a little sub-par for the zone, yes, but the challenge rating for him is also lower than the zone. Now let's look at Disciple of the Order. You need hours and hours of cleaning trash... is harder if some other mobs are up, and you even have to clear a 6x pull to get to him. Furthermore, he is a multi-part event and the fight against him is actually hard (for its level). Rewards for priming this encounter are definetly over-par for the zone... but also the challenge rating.
So traek now seems a little too hard... I recall a time, when 2.0 was introduced, that Taesh was a little too hard... Was actually doable, but HARD as hell... he was tweaked, and he became like definetly TOO darned easy, so he had to be tweaked back. My point here is that Traek is hard, yes... but I still think it is doable, for someoen who has been getting prepared for him. It seems now there's another adept higher than him... which makes him second highest adept... which means that, once you beat him, and you beat next adept, you've finished with adept raiding! (can't see much point on an adept level 64 to engage, for example... and level 65 to engage would be normal raid) So, you guys are in the END GAME, but in the FINAL END GAME, which, imo, justifies it being harder than expected.
Also, after reading them numbers on the other post... 560 dps may seem high, but isn't beyond what a good healing squad should be able to heal at 57. I think your main issue was too much people being damaged, and not an optimal healing system. Also, were you using mana potions? did any of you had larvaes (or canni shoulders, but since those are pot raid, doubt it)? A good ammount of modrods (meleers can always pass one to a healer midfight) Mana potion, plus modrod makes a good ammount of mana. Did you guys had clickable nukes? stocking on Blazing veils to be mass clicked on that fight seems a good idea to me...
My point here is that traek should be really, REALLY almost unbeatable, except by people prepared for him, and them, he should be a hard fight... since you'll be doing pounders next, then, it's bye bye adepts. Grats, you beat the game. Wouldn't you be dissapointed if last fight was too easy? Cause I know I'd be. I was dissapointed at first when fire mini in thaz was easier than Fie boss (fire boss was bugged around that time). I also was dissapointed when a bug dealt 52 % damage to earth boss.. And was dissapointed when logistician drone wasn't working yet when we tested mercury.. Mostly cause, even if we won... we won... "cheating". Not that we wanted to cheat, but still... Same can be said about Traek. Beating him should make you feel like a milion dollars bill, and, in order to do that, he HAS to be hard.
In any case... what tweaking would you propose?
Monance
Dalayan Adventurer
shanara, please do me (us) a favor, get urself a twink to 57, with all available AAs and the best gear u can obtain, then make an open raid on Traek and show us how easy it can be done. All i want to see is a timestamp and the dead mob, you dont have to show us your strategies (the ones we are clearly not capable of) or any secrets - i just would like to see him dead, because i stopped believing i would ever face that day.
other than that please lose ur "stop whining u noobs just because its hard"-attitude. I have been on Traek raids lately where the tank lasted a total of 10 seconds, and the raid just didnt consist of the right classes. I believe that getting him down to 40 % is a great attempt, and it suprises me the raid could even get him down so far, he is by FAR too hard right now.
You are probably a skilled player, and surely know a lot of things, but you should stop commenting on things u have no clue about
no offense,
just my 2cp
PS: i would really love to see a screen of dead traek, can someone post it? (can be pre-tweak)
other than that please lose ur "stop whining u noobs just because its hard"-attitude. I have been on Traek raids lately where the tank lasted a total of 10 seconds, and the raid just didnt consist of the right classes. I believe that getting him down to 40 % is a great attempt, and it suprises me the raid could even get him down so far, he is by FAR too hard right now.
You are probably a skilled player, and surely know a lot of things, but you should stop commenting on things u have no clue about
no offense,
just my 2cp
PS: i would really love to see a screen of dead traek, can someone post it? (can be pre-tweak)
Brimztone
Dalayan Elder
Hate to be a troll, but if you are going to use examples from high end raids, at least get your facts straight.shanara99 said:
syduck:Anyway. I don't think the reason why they failed their attempts was because they were unprepared or unorganized, it was because he is too hard. Its ok to be hard, and challenges are always awesome, but when something is so challeneging it is immpossible, then it needs to be toned down.
shanara99 said:
This is your opinion here. You defend it, great, but you also have to accept others may have a different one.
I have read along the lines that Wiz said ( he said-she said, I know) Adepts should be nearly trivial to a full raid of the max level. Obviously, I don't want a trivial raid when I will get to try Traekoth. I want a hard one. But I don't want to spend monthes at 57 farming cash and AAs till I get some deepmetal, waiting till every other char that wants to raid it too does the same, before trying it. No one playing SoD will do that, unless it's a twinck and the main is done with his usefull AAs... There must be a point in between, where it stays hard, but is still doable to not totally twincked raiders, and I trust Wiz to find it.
I haven't tried it Shanara, as I am lvl 35. I do the same as you, I "think", and it's pretty much restricted to a certain point when you can't just try out. But what I would propose is: either lower a bit the resists check on the AE, so the people that did an actual effort of getting resist gear give a real plus to the raid, either lower a bit the AE ( by 50-70 hps?) to make it so the healers can last an entire fight, if they do very well.
That being said, I clearly see that you are not going to change your mind, and I am not either. So I will stop posting on that topic till real new input is made; no point in arguing any further here.
Harziel
Dalayan Beginner
Shan, you're still completely ignoring the Raid restrictions on Adepts.
12 man raids.
Should be doable by a full raid of 12 >>>>>trivially<<<<< (with at least the basical skeleton classes, tanks, healers dps...etc etc...)
These people came specifically geared for the fight as well, You're basically cheapening their attempts by saying they're doing it wrong without actually having done the encounter yourself. Sure he may be SIMILAR to other encounters, but everything you're suggesting isn't realistic in terms of who would do it.
Its not the strategy. No really, it isn't this time.
He isn't IP or Thaz or CoD quality and hes definitely not end game.
If all the adepts before him allowed flexibility in terms of classes and strats for a 12 man raid, Traekoth should follow that trend as well.
He's simply too hard.
All in all, Traekoth is just a WW dragon that is killable only by 57s. Tons of higher people can say HOW to do it. How many of those people have tried it post patch?...
Maybe by Taishar's numbers, he might lose one of his attacking abilities? like 1 less swing, or lose his bash perhaps.
Don't quote me but I think Protector Kloie is of similar difficulty but without the restrictions. Haven't touched Kloie recently to say however.
12 man raids.
Should be doable by a full raid of 12 >>>>>trivially<<<<< (with at least the basical skeleton classes, tanks, healers dps...etc etc...)
These people came specifically geared for the fight as well, You're basically cheapening their attempts by saying they're doing it wrong without actually having done the encounter yourself. Sure he may be SIMILAR to other encounters, but everything you're suggesting isn't realistic in terms of who would do it.
Its not the strategy. No really, it isn't this time.
He isn't IP or Thaz or CoD quality and hes definitely not end game.
If all the adepts before him allowed flexibility in terms of classes and strats for a 12 man raid, Traekoth should follow that trend as well.
He's simply too hard.
All in all, Traekoth is just a WW dragon that is killable only by 57s. Tons of higher people can say HOW to do it. How many of those people have tried it post patch?...
Maybe by Taishar's numbers, he might lose one of his attacking abilities? like 1 less swing, or lose his bash perhaps.
Don't quote me but I think Protector Kloie is of similar difficulty but without the restrictions. Haven't touched Kloie recently to say however.
Take a good look at that screenshot so you guys can see what it takes to kill traekoth, notice their shammy wearing shield of freeport,some wand of the charismatic(whatever the name is) so you guys who are not in a guild that can do the shield of freeport quest start saving 10k+ to take down traekoth. Frankly I can't really speak my tank had drops from PoT when she tanked Traekoth infact she had alot more HP than the warrior, and lets not even go on AC...smoked. However even with all that twinking, fear resistance rank 2, maxed out her HP AAs that she could at that lvl, Traekoth wasted me in no time, saddly the healers were not pot twinked like I was. The strategy was simple have a knight use fear immunity stand at the start. However dude hits way too hard and has to be slowed right away. If that helps. But yeah according to that picture he can be taken down, you just need to be supper twinked. like just look at the picture above.
Brimztone said:
yeah before is like pre sod 2.0 when they did him with 8 chars. notice they didnt want tons of ppl they just wanted to see how many chars they actually need to kill him. And they also killed every other adept. well not the new lvl 60 adepts cause i dont know they where in that time.
by now, this kinda just frustrates me. People are going back and forth about the difficulty of Traekoth... namely, should he be so hard that it takes 12 level 57 ubertwinks, or 12 level 57 well geared, or 12 level 57s with level 57 gear....
I ask this question a few weeks ago, still no response. Whoever is the person in charge of the vision of adepts... how hard do you want him to be?
I ask this question a few weeks ago, still no response. Whoever is the person in charge of the vision of adepts... how hard do you want him to be?
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Tryfaen said:
Tryf what other adept? Rag? or a new one?
In any case, I'm otw matty. Imer 40 woo woo.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Tryfaen said:
Sweet, gonna have to try them when I get imer to 57 too. 13.5 levels to go!
These new ones almost look like they were put in to give those aiming for traek something else to do because man i know from experience with my druid the first traek run, it gets very boring just grinding aa's all day everyday if thats your main and not banded by a main in raid guild trying down traek, then waiting for him to repop once you do.