We weren't trying to outdistance the AoE because we didn't think it was possible. (and actually wouldn't be since few, if any of the casters, had range increment items) The fear is cone shaped directly in front of Traek, so we had the tank on the side opposite the healers (that is, traekoth pointed away from them) to keep them from being hit by the fear.Alton said:
Traekoth & You... Is He Overpowered?
- Thread starter Aaubert
- Start date
Is it really ? Hrm. When we successfully did Traek before the change to 12 man raid, we always kept Traek pointed away from the casters to avoid the fear. Perhaps they were just far enough away... everything I've ever heard from people about Traek though said fear only hits in front. ::shrugs::
Alton said:
The first time we went into the fight, it was our understanding that the casters could hide behind the rock to avoid the AoE, and we had Traek faced to other way to be extra safe and avoid anybody getting hit by the frontal conic fear. With that in mind "(Tank) == (Mob) == Healers " didn't seem like such a bad idea. Once we realized that we couldn't hide from the AoE, and that the tank was often oor, we switched it to "(Mob) ==(Tank) == Healers". Even with that setup, we still ran into range issues. *shrug* Dunno what to tell you. I'll wait for Wiz's answer on this, since he'll be able to test all of this out thoroughly and let us know if we simply needed to work on our positioning more.
Harziel
Dalayan Beginner
Honestly, I think its really just a scaling down thing that needs to be looked at.
We were able to do traekoth with 15-18 at one point (although we only technically killed him twice).
Same strategies that were mentioned earlier in post.
The same strategies should have worked to a degree as long as Traekoth himself was scaled down accordingly (still waiting on the Official Wiz response
).
We were able to do traekoth with 15-18 at one point (although we only technically killed him twice).
Same strategies that were mentioned earlier in post.
The same strategies should have worked to a degree as long as Traekoth himself was scaled down accordingly (still waiting on the Official Wiz response
).
shanara99
Dalayan Beginner
Most fights are about prparation. Dragon roar can be prevented easily with the decanter of the brave. If an AoE has range 100, even without RI, healers can use their good heals from outside AoE (tho requires coordination). Still... With twink it's easy aving RI items.. but without twink also.
As well... if you're gonna AA... get Call of the blessed. There... 2 rogues, 2 wiz/Necro, 2 rangers, 1 warrior, 1 shaman, 2 clerics, 1 druid, 1 chanter could do this fight with Cotb...
As well... if you're gonna AA... get Call of the blessed. There... 2 rogues, 2 wiz/Necro, 2 rangers, 1 warrior, 1 shaman, 2 clerics, 1 druid, 1 chanter could do this fight with Cotb...
Uh. Are you retarded ? Decanter of the brave lasts a whopping 30 seconds and can't be reused for many minutes. Dragon roar is used every 18. Throughout the entire duration of the fight. WIth it, if timed right, you could avoid 2 fears out of the 20 he'll let loose throughout the course of the fight ?shanara99 said:
Furthermore, Adepts are supposed to be able to be killed by non-twink'd or AA'd to hell people.
shanara99
Dalayan Beginner
No, I'm not retarded.. I'm used to timing worse thing. After all... 1 click = aave 2, you flee one, then you save 2 more. ALSO, some classes don't even need it, since they have fear inmune stances or AAs.
Traekoth is LAST adept, and he's inmenselly strong... so? He's supposed to be that way. But INMENSELY strong. And, if his AoE isn't bugged, from what you say you are missing a TONS of parts, like, having the healers out of AoE... Which is fully doable.. having a tank with fear inmunity... which is fully doable, and maybe you should learn to introduce some rotation in your healers... AND before you call me retarded again... I've done rotation on clerics for Mirrors, Deyranni, Ulazzaria, Earth Thaz mini, and similars... So... YES, it can be done. Just requires raising healing efficiency and having 0 overlap. Won't tell you exactly how. You figure that. Just be known that 6 healers can have as much mana as 12 that way.
So.. you see.. you ARE actually missing stuff... you're facing this traenkoth just as a normal mob, when he's NOT supposed to be normal, Then you insult me for proposing a strategy... Well... be as you wish, but, if you can't see all the things you're doing wrong, the retardeds are you.
Traekoth is LAST adept, and he's inmenselly strong... so? He's supposed to be that way. But INMENSELY strong. And, if his AoE isn't bugged, from what you say you are missing a TONS of parts, like, having the healers out of AoE... Which is fully doable.. having a tank with fear inmunity... which is fully doable, and maybe you should learn to introduce some rotation in your healers... AND before you call me retarded again... I've done rotation on clerics for Mirrors, Deyranni, Ulazzaria, Earth Thaz mini, and similars... So... YES, it can be done. Just requires raising healing efficiency and having 0 overlap. Won't tell you exactly how. You figure that. Just be known that 6 healers can have as much mana as 12 that way.
So.. you see.. you ARE actually missing stuff... you're facing this traenkoth just as a normal mob, when he's NOT supposed to be normal, Then you insult me for proposing a strategy... Well... be as you wish, but, if you can't see all the things you're doing wrong, the retardeds are you.
Brimztone
Dalayan Elder
No, you can't buy class AAs until 59. Meaning Fearless as well as CoTB. You can get fear resistance, but I would think an AA'd group of 57s who have dedicated their last leveling to AAs and twinking out themselves would have it. Fear Resistance is far from Fear Immunity.Alton said:
Yes, a chain would be a good idea, and good practice for higher end mobs, but asking them to get AAs that they can't get is pretty silly.
I called you retarded because you proposed using 30 seconds of fear immunity as the solution to our problem - which wasn't fear. And furthermore, your solution wouldn't even fix fear if it were the problem since 30 seconds of fear immunity during a 5 minute fight wouldn't solve anything. If you had read anything, you would have seen that keeping our MT from getting feared wasn't a problem - at all. And obviously our healers were on rotation, mana wasn't wasted by overlapping heals.shanara99 said:
We've been made aware that with RI items we can get out of range of the AoE DD, which is about the only thing different we can do which will most likely have a an effect, but even with that, I don't know if that 1 cleric that is saving his mana that he was using on healing the casters to instead heal the MT, would make up for the 40% of life left on Traek.
FYI: Traekoth isn't the last Adept, and while yes he is strong, adepts aren't meant o require twinks and tons of AAs if you have a full group at the proper level.
Yes, someone said (somewhere else on the board, but I can't remember) that there are 2 brand new adepts in Heartlands, linked and in the same room, and they seem to accept people up to 60. They are clockworks, in the caves, if i remember correctly.
And for what Shanar99 says, I think he is really wrong. Besides the fact that the AA he proposes can't be attained at that level, I'd like to remind that it's not a guild fight, it's an adept. If it requires guild coordination, tons of AAs and twincked chars, then most chances are that 95% of the people trying it will be past it's loot level. And if it requires ranged only damage, it's also wrong, since it kick out lots of classes straight out; that makes it harder to get "the right people" for the fight, as well as frustrates the others. It also increases the chances of rot.
Anyways, I think, as a 50+ adept, he should be hard, but should be accessible to 57 chars with decent gear, good coordination and just a couple of AAs. Otherwise, lets just untag the adept and make it 65, at least it's not a bait.
But I am confident Wiz will have this covered soon, as he already gave an answer here.
And for what Shanar99 says, I think he is really wrong. Besides the fact that the AA he proposes can't be attained at that level, I'd like to remind that it's not a guild fight, it's an adept. If it requires guild coordination, tons of AAs and twincked chars, then most chances are that 95% of the people trying it will be past it's loot level. And if it requires ranged only damage, it's also wrong, since it kick out lots of classes straight out; that makes it harder to get "the right people" for the fight, as well as frustrates the others. It also increases the chances of rot.
Anyways, I think, as a 50+ adept, he should be hard, but should be accessible to 57 chars with decent gear, good coordination and just a couple of AAs. Otherwise, lets just untag the adept and make it 65, at least it's not a bait.
But I am confident Wiz will have this covered soon, as he already gave an answer here.
well tanked him that one day he fixed his damage, and Wiz did fixing to him, the first time we wiped and then Wiz fixed him, so we won second time. However this was before they made it a 12 people raid, tryed it after the 12 people on and he stomped me the clerics ran oput of mana really fast and have not tryed him since, seem to me his damage is once again as high as before the fixing he did with 18 people raid.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Brimztone said:What?
yeah dude, there's new ones, I think in Uc or something iirc
Harziel
Dalayan Beginner
For those of you who keep proposing "New" incredible strat ideas about being OOR Etc etc.
Its been done. Its been tried.
These people have done traekoth before he was revamped, with the exact same strats you're proposing.
1. Fear immunity AA isn't even possible to get at 57. Stance is, but fear wasn't the problem.
2. Healers being oor of Aoe was tried as well (If anyone bothered to remember that it was tried). It works and wasn't the problem and its already understood that it works.
3. MANA was the problem. Beating the dead horse, Taishar also said healing rotation wasn't the issue. 12 person raid, not 18, Keep that in mind, meaning alot less room for healers/dps.
4. Take a closer look at the restrictions. 12 people max, not all will be 57 sometimes not to mention 70% of the ability AA's aren't avail till level 59. Much smaller mana pools/HP (mentioned alot too).
Kelval makes the points that are important about the mob being for non twinks looking for a mob to kill.You shouldn't need to be an elitest guild coordinated with beefy aa's for an encounter of this degree. Besides, its already been shown that an even lower level Adept has needed some scaling down (The frog in Miel, forget his name but was 3 rounding the main tank alot even with suicide slows). Simpler fight, Many people contesting the strategies used, in the end, it was the difficulty of the mob.
Sometimes things are just way too hard, like Ruins of Nagthilian... Don't see ANY guilds touching that place.
Its been done. Its been tried.
These people have done traekoth before he was revamped, with the exact same strats you're proposing.
1. Fear immunity AA isn't even possible to get at 57. Stance is, but fear wasn't the problem.
2. Healers being oor of Aoe was tried as well (If anyone bothered to remember that it was tried). It works and wasn't the problem and its already understood that it works.
3. MANA was the problem. Beating the dead horse, Taishar also said healing rotation wasn't the issue. 12 person raid, not 18, Keep that in mind, meaning alot less room for healers/dps.
4. Take a closer look at the restrictions. 12 people max, not all will be 57 sometimes not to mention 70% of the ability AA's aren't avail till level 59. Much smaller mana pools/HP (mentioned alot too).
Kelval makes the points that are important about the mob being for non twinks looking for a mob to kill.You shouldn't need to be an elitest guild coordinated with beefy aa's for an encounter of this degree. Besides, its already been shown that an even lower level Adept has needed some scaling down (The frog in Miel, forget his name but was 3 rounding the main tank alot even with suicide slows). Simpler fight, Many people contesting the strategies used, in the end, it was the difficulty of the mob.
Sometimes things are just way too hard, like Ruins of Nagthilian... Don't see ANY guilds touching that place.
shanara99
Dalayan Beginner
Well, I'm a she... And some fights require some classes... and some fights require some other classes. Let's take, for example, The Rust. The Rust has a raid part, yes, but also has a single group part. There's this mob, a mirrored drone, that is inmune to spells... Oh, damn, it's unfair, since only meleers can kill it!!!!!!. Still, the monster is there... cause not everything has to be killable by everyone.. at least, same easilly. Another example... MotSS golems. you can't have a raid with only 2 meleers, even if you want to have 16 casters, cause 16 casters are your friends... you need more meleers for those golems that are spell inmune... Sometime, the setup required of a certain raid will force you to have certain classes, and, since there's a limit on raid... well... you have to keep some people outside.
I mean... will be a pally useful for traek? Well, yes, but a wiz would be more dps for sure. Does this means no pallies can make the fight? Well...It means that a wizard will make to the raid more easilly than him.
Decanter of the Brave, has, INDEED, a recast... which you can time, and EVADE the fears, having, that way, up to 3 mins of fear inmunity in a 5 mins fight. Traekoth WAS indeed, last adept.. It isn't now? Oh well, it isn't. IP was last raid tier, and now it isn't anymore... does that means that any guild can kill in ip? NO, it's STILL freakingly hard, and only some elite can do it. Same goes for your adept. it WAS last adept... ONLY elite can do it. And... BELIEVE ME. mana used on healers & casters saves MUCH MUCH more than 40 % of traek. Also: maybe you didn't know this, but there's a way of getting mana regen 15 + (plus FT) without having Kei/jb, Won/potg, Sbliss, HPB. Requires tons of items... but it would change a lot of things... (adding clarity would make it much mopre mana regen, kinda like 24 or 25, which is close to max).
In short... I think you still have to try... using another tactic, "jousting" the AoE if needed (both damage and fear), using the better suited classes for the task, while healers save mana. If using all those tactics is still unbeatable... MAYBE it's ubalanced... but keep in mind he is SUPPOSED to be ultra strong, and only killable by an elite.... so... yeah, a random level 57 that has no gear won't be able to kill him...... OF COURSE! Same way a random level 65 with no gear wouldn't kill Versikol! geez. Adepts are, definetly, RAID GAME. not everyone has to folow it, but those doing RAID GAME has to acept that game's rules... and one of those is needing certain level of gear/AAs before even trying next target... So don't use again that "a non twinked wouldn't be able to kill him"! GEEZ, a non twinked is NOT supposed to be able to kill him. since a non twinked is playing in some other way (maybe he's just doing quests, instead getting gear)
I mean... will be a pally useful for traek? Well, yes, but a wiz would be more dps for sure. Does this means no pallies can make the fight? Well...It means that a wizard will make to the raid more easilly than him.
Decanter of the Brave, has, INDEED, a recast... which you can time, and EVADE the fears, having, that way, up to 3 mins of fear inmunity in a 5 mins fight. Traekoth WAS indeed, last adept.. It isn't now? Oh well, it isn't. IP was last raid tier, and now it isn't anymore... does that means that any guild can kill in ip? NO, it's STILL freakingly hard, and only some elite can do it. Same goes for your adept. it WAS last adept... ONLY elite can do it. And... BELIEVE ME. mana used on healers & casters saves MUCH MUCH more than 40 % of traek. Also: maybe you didn't know this, but there's a way of getting mana regen 15 + (plus FT) without having Kei/jb, Won/potg, Sbliss, HPB. Requires tons of items... but it would change a lot of things... (adding clarity would make it much mopre mana regen, kinda like 24 or 25, which is close to max).
In short... I think you still have to try... using another tactic, "jousting" the AoE if needed (both damage and fear), using the better suited classes for the task, while healers save mana. If using all those tactics is still unbeatable... MAYBE it's ubalanced... but keep in mind he is SUPPOSED to be ultra strong, and only killable by an elite.... so... yeah, a random level 57 that has no gear won't be able to kill him...... OF COURSE! Same way a random level 65 with no gear wouldn't kill Versikol! geez. Adepts are, definetly, RAID GAME. not everyone has to folow it, but those doing RAID GAME has to acept that game's rules... and one of those is needing certain level of gear/AAs before even trying next target... So don't use again that "a non twinked wouldn't be able to kill him"! GEEZ, a non twinked is NOT supposed to be able to kill him. since a non twinked is playing in some other way (maybe he's just doing quests, instead getting gear)
First off, here's the topic ( another Traekoth topic btw) where Saphar told about the new adepts. it's about mid way down.
As for Shanara, first sorry for the he/she confuse, it was midnight and I missed the "a" at the end.
Still I disagree with you...
Plus, your MotSS golems are designed for a high end raiding guild. A guildmate can stand "working for the others", as he knows the loot will reinforce the guild as a whole. An open raider will not work his ass for the others to be able to random on loot. Does your drone in The Rust, designed for 1 group, drop caster gear? Because then, something's wrongsyduck:.
What's the point in a loot table where MNK only items drop if no one will want them for the fight ( again, in an open raid, where things are randomed)?
I will pass on the arguments for the FT 15 thing and all the stuff you would have to farm ( is it even attainable at lvl 57? Again, if you have to do all of that to kill Traek, something's wrong) to comment:
That does not mean the average Joe-shmoe that leveled there in no time, will be able to kill it np. That means that lvl 57 people with no char in a high end guild, that organize and gear decently ( decently= better than average gear and specific resists; but no silly things like deepmetal, or a combination of 12 items that together give you the uber mana regen) would be able to work it out.
EDIT: typos and open brackets... All that.
As for Shanara, first sorry for the he/she confuse, it was midnight and I missed the "a" at the end
.Still I disagree with you...
Your point is flawed, because Traekoth is not immune. He is tuned way too hard, wich is different.
Plus, your MotSS golems are designed for a high end raiding guild. A guildmate can stand "working for the others", as he knows the loot will reinforce the guild as a whole. An open raider will not work his ass for the others to be able to random on loot. Does your drone in The Rust, designed for 1 group, drop caster gear? Because then, something's wrong
syduck:.What's the point in a loot table where MNK only items drop if no one will want them for the fight ( again, in an open raid, where things are randomed)?
When it comes to a point where it's semi suicidal to engage melees besides the tank on an open raid designed encounter, something's wrong, don't you think?
I will pass on the arguments for the FT 15 thing and all the stuff you would have to farm ( is it even attainable at lvl 57? Again, if you have to do all of that to kill Traek, something's wrong) to comment:
That's where you are wrong imo, and why we cannot agree. In 18 chars adept setup, he was hard, but doable, as Lilbrateeboie said somewhere along the way. Now he is nearly undoable unless you have 12 twincked chars hyped at 150% skill. What's asked is that he is set back to "hard but doable status".
That does not mean the average Joe-shmoe that leveled there in no time, will be able to kill it np. That means that lvl 57 people with no char in a high end guild, that organize and gear decently ( decently= better than average gear and specific resists; but no silly things like deepmetal, or a combination of 12 items that together give you the uber mana regen) would be able to work it out.
EDIT: typos and open brackets... All that.