The SoD economy

Garluk said:
Geez, when he said drop rate nerfs I'm hoping he's talking about vendor trash like gems, otherwise, I'll be forced to agree with G2 and that would just ruin my day :( Either way, spawn rate nerfs should be helpful toward slowing oversaturation.

Yep, it's ruined.
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lol, i assume he means drop rates of items, because gem drops were upped afik.

Danku said:
Ancient girdle of rocks for example.
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Girdle is from THE CRUSHER i believe, and that is a 1 group or less mob
 
But at the same time that gem drop rates were upped, their vendor value was greatly reduced (at least on the stackable ones). So, how much, if any, change actually came about? It was a boon to tradeskillers for sure, but did it have any impact on the common players bank acct?
 
Garluk said:
But at the same time that gem drop rates were upped, their vendor value was greatly reduced (at least on the stackable ones). So, how much, if any, change actually came about? It was a boon to tradeskillers for sure, but did it have any impact on the common players bank acct?
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well from what i heard, drop rate on gems was doubled, and the vendor prices were halved, this may not be accurate
if it is the case though, you shouldnt see any impact on the ammount of plat entering the economy from gems alone (unless you had a shitton of them in your bank during the change like thoias lol)
 
Danku said:
So, we seem to have established there was a cut in named spawn rates, gem drop rates, drop tables, plat drops, spawn rates of cash critters, cutting in gem prices at NPCs, questions over some NPC pricing of items (example 10p items and 1g items from same mobs), and maybe more.

If each nerf reduced available plat by 1/2 (pulling numbers out of my ass as an example is all, these are NOT the real changes)...then we have had a reduction from X available plat to X/64 (1/2 for spawn rates, 1/2 for gem drop rates, 1/2 for lowering drop tables, 1/2 for plat drops, 1/2 for spawn rates, 1/2 for cut in gem prices... 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2 = 1/64th of the previous available loot. The effect of so many changes all at once was exponential.

The example above is to illustrate the effect of lessening more than one factor at a time. With so many variables changed at the same time, I think that the tightening of the plat was more effective than was intended is all. AGAIN I DO NOT CLAIM THAT THE EXAMPLE IS THE REALITY. I do not know the actual effect that was had, but I do know that merely looking at the overall quantity of plat in the game is not an effective measure of the economy.
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I just want to quickly note how absolutely terrible this math is. This situation is only applicable when these are all nested within one another, such as being only able to get money by getting named to spawn (half as much) who must then drop their loot (half as often) that you trade for half as many gems which sell for half as much and so on.

It is not exponential. A couple of them can be combined together, such as having both named spawn less often and their equipment selling for less, but the majority of this math is spectacularly bad.

If they halve every single platinum source on the server, half as much platinum will enter the game. If they halve multiple factors of a given source, only that one source's factors are multiplied together. If, for example, they halve gem drop prices (let's call that 10% of the platinum entering the server) and halve platinum drop rates (another 10%), the result is only 10% less platinum entering the server (these sources generating half), not 15% less (these sources mystically combining to generate only one fourth or, should you add in another factor such as named loot prices, one eighth).

The rest of the thread I just sort of glossed over to see if anyone had noted these mistakes yet, because correcting someone's math is clearly far more important than voicing my opinion on the economy.
 
I do believe if you read that I stated, pulling numbers out of my ass as an example is all. This was an example meant to illustrate that the effects all add together in a way that may be more than was intended.

I do not claim to be a math guy, I only claim to actually care that people have fun at all levels in SoD.

If you have something to say on the subject of the SoD economy, please speak up.
 
guyvertoo said:
lol, i assume he means drop rates of items, because gem drops were upped afik.
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Actually, there are mobs that dropped good workable gems at a nice rate (cyclops or giants for example) that now drop far less of that type of gem. It is adressed on other pages of the thread.
 
Danku said:
I do believe if you read that I stated, pulling numbers out of my ass as an example is all. This was an example meant to illustrate that the effects all add together in a way that may be more than was intended.

I do not claim to be a math guy, I only claim to actually care that people have fun at all levels in SoD.

If you have something to say on the subject of the SoD economy, please speak up.
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Yes, yes, you made quite clear that you invented the numbers, which is fine.

What is not fine is the whole point you were trying to illustrate, implying that "we have had a reduction from X available plat to X/64 (1/2 for spawn rates, 1/2 for gem drop rates, 1/2 for lowering drop tables, 1/2 for plat drops, 1/2 for spawn rates, 1/2 for cut in gem prices... 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2 = 1/64th of the previous available loot. The effect of so many changes all at once was exponential." They are not all exponential. A couple are with one another if they even happened in the first place, but you don't just multiply them all. See the above post.

As for my comments on the economy, I haven't been low level in quite some time, so I can't really speak much to that part. I make a good deal of money both solo and in groups, in part by farming high value tradeskill components from light blues (which, though not adding liquid platinum to the server, add their own value as assets that can be traded). It helps that there are also frequent named in that area that reliably drop loot selling for 60-100 platinum. To properly assess the effects of these alleged 'nerfs' upon the economy, we'd have to understand 1) how strongly each aspect was nerfed and 2) actually have confirmed that half of the things spoken about, such as named spawn rates, have been lowered. The gem thing has already been spoken on, it lowered the prices for tradeskillers whilst having virtually no impact on platinum flow due to increased supply. I'd like to see something concrete about the rest, outside of the changes to giants (which I wholeheartedly support - their loot was way out of line given their power, that's why everyone farmed them in the first place).
 
Ramgan said:
The gem thing has already been spoken on, it lowered the prices for tradeskillers whilst having virtually no impact on platinum flow due to increased supply.
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And that is an assumption, there has been no official word on the exact changes. Youa ssume there is virtually no impact, but that is your perspective. I would love to see solid numbers on all of the various changes, but we are the players. To keep the game mystique we do not get the exact formulas and such and I support that. In another post I reccomended overall examination in plat drops VS having specific areas be the cash farms. If every mob dropped loot in relation to their level then maybe there wouldn't be a reliance on specific spots to make a basic amount of cash to help pull yourself up. New people to the server are the ones who need the break here.

In any case, there are problems. They may not affect you, but that does not lessen their importance in relation to the overall health of the server.
 
Nor did I say there weren't problems, for there very well may be - only that I was not finding it difficult to make money. Anecdotal, sure, but an example that may be followed by others. There have always been areas comparable to giants or greater in value, though not in ease (or they'd have been adjusted, as well), which you see hinted at quite a bit in the forums.

It is precisely this 'word on exact changes' you speak of, or even the presence of changes at all, that I am interested in. People speak of lowered named mob spawn rates and lowered loot drop rates, yet I have seen nor heard no actual indication of this. They speak of lowered loot tables and cash drops, but the only places I've seen this are the giants, which I again support because giants were entirely too easy for their money.

Underpowered giants with overly much loot cannot be the backbone of the economy. The fact that they were, according to this thread, is a testament to how badly they needed adjustment.
 
Ramgan said:
Underpowered giants with overly much loot cannot be the backbone of the economy. The fact that they were, according to this thread, is a testament to how badly they needed adjustment.
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Another way to view it is that cash is so difficult to farm that everyone flocks to the one overpowered area.
 
Thinkmeats said:
Charms aren't the problem.
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I wouldn't say the but maybe a strong factor. How much platinum, at any given time, is waiting in the banks of level 65 characters to buy a, or the next, charm? On a server of mostly 65's, if it were an appreciable percentage of the total platinum, it would probably cause a problem.

I would also like to mention that it seems most games to ever have an economy, had a broken economy after a while; so it's probably hopeless wasted effort in any direction :dance:.
 
Ramgan said:
Nor did I say there weren't problems, for there very well may be - only that I was not finding it difficult to make money. Anecdotal, sure, but an example that may be followed by others. There have always been areas comparable to giants or greater in value, though not in ease (or they'd have been adjusted, as well), which you see hinted at quite a bit in the forums.

It is precisely this 'word on exact changes' you speak of, or even the presence of changes at all, that I am interested in. People speak of lowered named mob spawn rates and lowered loot drop rates, yet I have seen nor heard no actual indication of this. They speak of lowered loot tables and cash drops, but the only places I've seen this are the giants, which I again support because giants were entirely too easy for their money.

Underpowered giants with overly much loot cannot be the backbone of the economy. The fact that they were, according to this thread, is a testament to how badly they needed adjustment.
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And we agree. Giants were insanely generous and have been fixed. And no, I do not think giants were the backbone of an economy, just a single facet. In any case, back and forth solves nothing. Opinions fully posted by alot of people and alot of information through here.
 
Wiz said:
Just a little note here, when you do / all 1-60 you don't see anon people. The real statistic is ~50% under 60, and has been so for a long time.
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when we're looking at these numbers as they relate to this discussion.... i'd guess that most of those are our 65's twinks/alts. At raid time the number of pre 65's drop significantly. It's harder to see exactly how much since not everyone raids at the same time on the same days.

One day you should send everyone to their mains and to their gathering spots and see how many are really left that are honest mained under 65 players.
 
I will be jacking up cash drops across the board the next patch. We'll see how things work out.
 
JoeMeyer said:
Care to clarify?
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Economics

Atm there is a surplus of goods and a shortage of expendable income.
With a rise in the ammout of money flowing into the economy there will be an increased propensity to spend, driving up demand and raising prices across the board.

If supply remains the same and demand rises prices will also rise.
 
guyvertoo said:
Economics

Atm there is a surplus of goods and a shortage of expendable income.
With a rise in the ammout of money flowing into the economy there will be an increased propensity to spend, driving up demand and raising prices across the board.

If supply remains the same and demand rises prices will also rise.
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you go up from depression, it looks like inflation. maybe whatever happens will be a lil' closer to the desireable middle.
 
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