The Problem(?) of PUGs

Slaariel

Slaariel

*The Only Real Life Girl Dev*
HI! I am Slaariel and I really do like PUGs. All raid content I have made (except 1 mob Woldaff asked me to make in Yclist) is puggable and I have no problems at all with a bunch of people getting together and killing stuff etc.

HERE is the problem. I know that the recent PUG rules make people upset.. I know even the 2/3 rule was really annoying and tough to enforce for both GMs and raid leaders. Here is the thread where we have a dialog about it because while I like PUGs I have 1 small problem:

I THINK THERE SHOULD BE CONTENT AVAILABLE TO HIGH LEVEL AND COHESIVE GUILDS AS ORGANIZATIONS RATHER THAN COLLECTIONS OF MERCENARIES.

So what do we do about this? I liked the idea of zones that tie heavily into world lore being guild stuff. Meanwhile, zones that may have rich interior lore without ties to big storylines like the Seekers vs. Kaezul and so forth (aka MINOR lores) be free for all.

That would mean GUILD zones are like:

Prison,
Yclist,
Spires,
Turruj, etc.

Where your basic god-domains and so forth would be free-for-all:

Torment,
Water,
Fire,
Earth,
Valor, etc.

Anyway let me hear what you have to say because I do like PUGs but I want some content to be available and conquerable by guilds alone despite ancient content design that may allow some of these fights to be easily PUGgable. LET'S HEAR IT.
 
I like this idea. What about archaic frags etc., would those be moved around? Back farming for those has historically not been as fun as advertised.
 
Yes frags would be distributed throughout T8-9 (this process has already begun).
 
Say my guild and another guild sort out their best for a progression target, or my guild brings other guilds members to fill raid slots or ... ... What constitutes a pug for these rules?
 
Yes that is also part of the problem

Edited to add: Am I alone in thinking that some content should be for guilds over individuals? It requires a lot more effort to build and maintain a guild and I think that effort should bring rewards.
 
Disclaimer: I do not raid.

However, for all the bitching and hair-splitting regarding what does and doesn't constitute a pick-up raid and what is or isn't allowed as far as "2/3" types rules are concerned, limiting some stuff to guild only is a nice way to avoid any unnecessary drama down the road.
 
If your guild only has max raid # - 1 and wants to kill in raid zone x, and one of these said people has a real life friend on that isn't in the guild so they take him/her along to prevent rots, or just play a video game with a friend.

Is this now against the rules?

Anyhow, I thought MMO's were all about playing with people and meeting new people who were all just as big of a geek you are and likes to kill fake dragons. Putting rules in the game such as this hurts people meeting other new people in the game. The community in SoD is one of the reasons this game is so great over the new MMO's coming out that follow the WoW easy mode of soloing to the top without getting to meet anyone.
 
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Or this could encourage people to join guilds / guilds to merge to work on progression, thus meeting new people to play with.
 
Yeah if you like raiding with people form a guild that would exempt you from this entire debacle!
 
Would one or two people raiding with a friend's guild (which has only really happened once or twice for me) really be a pug tho?
 
I'm just asking for clarification on what a pug is with all moral, entitlement, and emo considerations aside. Maybe it's just buried in the q&a thread and I'm not finding it.

I would like to know ahead of time if the night in prison is over because someone from another guild replaced the logging <class>, and boxing them in is the only option for staying.

ffs I support guilds.
 
I do hope there will be a low level bureaucrat and several forms to fill out involved in all this somewhere.
 
I do not want record-keeping and I don't want to stop people from playing with their friends? How about answering the question I put forward at the beginning: Is it the general idea that there should be some content for guilds alone? Let's address that before splitting any hairs.
 
How to fix:

#1. Raiding zones that require a key cannot be pugged. See: Prison, Undercity, whatever else has a key.

#2. Revert thaz, change wing bosses to drop only 1 loot per kill.

#3. Make thaz require a key so that pugging is not an option!
 
Use some common sense, its pretty easy to see when something like this is happening, and its a small community if you "loop holed" though the rules word gets around. It should just be self enforcing, you know if what your doing would be in the spirit of the rules or not. And if a GM does ever have to look into it expect a harsh punishment.

If solo wants to bring his alt not tagged fwf on a fwf raid that's his business, If a guild wants to bring a potential app with them fine, If you want to bring 1 or 2 friends, So be it but there doesn't need to be a number you know if what your doing is legit or not.
 
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None of that really addresses the issue... let me put it another way:

What if there were no restrictions at all on pugs?

Guilds are reduced to social creatures with loot structure and are no longer linked to progression in any meaningful sense.

Is this preferable? What is the alternative?
 
Slaariel said:
Yes frags would be distributed throughout T8-9 (this process has already begun).
Click to expand...

Would be cool if all archaic frags were dropped in T6-T9, sort of making int and wis drop in all zones that archaic frags can drop now. Rust raid trash, Prison, ValorB, ToT, maybe add pofrost?

I've noticed quite a few characters (like this guy for example) that managed to get past those tiers were pretty much screwed on archaic spells outside of pugging if they weren't lucky enough on their guild's raids. I mean this wouldn't help those people now but people coming up the tiers would be much more likely to end up with archaic spells if they legitimately raid T6-T9 without tierjumping.

May be effort? Do not know.
 
Quick thought

I'm on the fence on the whole Thaz thing until I wait and see what Slaar has in mind. As far as guild raids vs. pugs, I like this rule. However, as leader of Prophecy I have made alliances with at least one other guild to use them to fill in ranks on raids, and them us. Could we perhaps start a forum which, much like the current pug forum, would allow certain guilds to "team raid" together as long as we 2 guilds are both keyed for said zone? Would be public knowledge that those guilds work together; and easy to prove/disprove whether or not either is keyed and deserves to be there.
We have a limited population, but a good one. It would be nice to not tear up anymore guilds just for the sake needing some help now and then.

Randj
 
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