THE GRUPO INCIDENT (legitimate discussion)

[Wulamdar]

The point isn't to slow you down, it's to give you more things to do so that you don't jump straight to the last dragon, slay it a few times and then move on having experienced little of the game's content.

What if that's what the person is interested in doing? They shouldn't have to jump through a bunch of hoops to play the game a certain way. So what if they skip to the end and never slay an adapt or pass raiding tiers 1-8. If that's how they want to play the game and they're able to accomplish that, then good for them. All you're suggesting is the 'right way to play' mentality. Who's to say your way is the right way? The game has tons of content and people spent a lot of time developing it, that doesn't mean everyone will, or has to, play it.

At any rate, Grupo isn't stopping you from exploring all of the games content. Have fun playing this game and do that if you want. Or don't. Do whatever makes you happy.

 

[eqjenius]

I don't think "gross xp prostitution" is a problem. If people think playing someone else's character to advance some other character of theirs is a good deal, let them do it. If they don't think so and want to do something sensible like start their own alt character to progress their character then they are still able to do that.

Nobody is forcing anybody to box someone's shitty alt paladin.

edit: I'm happy that the revert was done and since things like this basically never happen I don't think we need a slew of rules to try to prevent things like this from happening.

Let's take [Silo's] preferred scenario to it's logical conclusion: what [he'd] like a guest-lock that keeps people from abusing his character, but which allows other people to level him up and do his quests. He wants his character rewarded without having to take any risks or do any work.

If this was written into code, then the top players on the server would all do the exact same thing so that their characters get progressed without having to do any work on their part.

Eventually, there would be about 50 insanely geared/tomed characters on the server for which the owners of those toons get the most benefit because they can kick off other people and use those toons whenever they want. Other people would have benefited as well from the leveling they did while boxing ringers, but it would jam just about everyone into the top content on the server while dramatically worsening the ringer plague, and everyone would have bypassed even more of the game's content.

Not my idea of a SoD utopia.

 

[eqjenius]

What if that's what the person is interested in doing? They shouldn't have to jump through a bunch of hoops to play the game a certain way.

Everyone is interested in getting XP and gear. Everyone would like to get free XP and gear if they could. That doesn't mean the people who run the show should give it to them.

People should have to do work in order to progress. Whether that means killing 1 mob or killing 1000 mobs is only a matter of determining the reasonable rates of progression. But no one should be getting things for free, even if that's what everyone thinks they want.

 

[fuwok]

Nobody's making these people play your character. If I want to play as some high-tier character all day and all night that is my problem, not the server's problem.

If you think its wrong to level other people's characters don't do it!

Also this slippery slope argument that everybody is going to do this is preposterous. The reality is that there are 50 insanely geared/tomed characters who let other people use them but the number of people using them is VERY small. Because nobody wants to deal with this kind of problem, and nobody wants to try to figure out who it is with their info that is holding them at character select because they fell asleep at the computer after taking a giant bong hit and eating a fistful of roast beef at 5:30am.

 

[eqjenius]

Also this slippery slope argument that everybody is going to do this is preposterous.

No it's not, because if they Devs fixed the guest-lock to also include a faction lock (which they should, by the way), I would do the same thing that Silo did because it's the easiest way to get free XP, and I imagine a lot of other people would as well.

Like a customer walking into a place of business, the motivations of players and the motivations of developers are not the same. Everyone wants their character to be at the top. For the people who develop content and who care about the server population, this would be a bad scenario.

 

[fuwok]

The point is that nobody is going to play your character just because you say hey my login is Romeo1996 and my password is SADIDA1111111.

I'm about to make a character and then you can make a character and then we can trade and unjustly profit from each other. This can be a social experiment.

 

[Moraelintz]

Nobody's making these people play your character. If I want to play as some high-tier character all day and all night that is my problem, not the server's problem.

If you think its wrong to level other people's characters don't do it!

Also this slippery slope argument that everybody is going to do this is preposterous. The reality is that there are 50 insanely geared/tomed characters who let other people use them but the number of people using them is VERY small. Because nobody wants to deal with this kind of problem, and nobody wants to try to figure out who it is with their info that is holding them at character select because they fell asleep at the computer after taking a giant bong hit and eating a fistful of roast beef at 5:30am.

This! I stopped giving out infos because someone had me at char select from using me the night before, for an entire saturday.

Also, why not get off your high horse and if you don't like something just don't do it or don't group/associate with those that do. There are plenty of people that can/have benefited from having a nicely geared tank available. I have counted 12 times this weekend alone where I have seen someone ooc for a group looking for a tank. Think if those groups had grupo'or some other tanks infos then they could have been rolling instead of waisting 30+ minutes looking for one.

Who does it really hurt for an alt paly with good gear to get 'free' exp. Other alt palies in said high end guild. Because they are the only ones fighting for a raid spot with him. It also may hurt the people in competition with the people boxing the paly becuase they may not have that same advantage of having a nice tank to group with and getting as much exp as fast. Of wait they all have had that opportunity as he ooc to give away his info.

 

[eqjenius]

I have counted 12 times this weekend alone where I have seen someone ooc for a group looking for a tank. Think if those groups had grupo'or some other tanks infos then they could have been rolling instead of waisting 30+ minutes looking for one.

I'm not against Silo sharing his info with people. I just don't think he should be getting experience for it if he doesn't trust them far enough to give them his guest-lock info.

 

[Moraelintz]

Then what is the benefit to him sharing his info?

 

[Otcho]

Please start decreasing experience gained when using buffs not available in your group and please tax experience gained through adventure bands. fuck fun

 

[eqjenius]

Then what is the benefit to him sharing his info?

Self-satisfaction. He's helping the noobs, remember?

Game mechanics shouldn't incentivize players giving their account information to everyone else in the game. If they want to do it, fine, but they shouldn't be rewarded for it since they're not doing any work.

 

[eqjenius]

Please start decreasing experience gained when using buffs not available in your group and please tax experience gained through adventure bands. fuck fun

I have no problem whatsoever with adventure bands. From what I can tell, they're well-designed. Adventure bands don't give you free experience, they transfer experience. However, somebody has to do the work to get that experience, which is why they seem fair to me.

You're probably right though, if it's harder for people to get experience when they're not even playing the game, fun will be completely jeopardized.

 

[Draeos]

somebody has to do the work to get that experience, which is why they seem fair to me.

now apply this logic to the rest of your rabble

 

[eqjenius]

now apply this logic to the rest of your rabble

If you'll go back and read from my first post in this thread, I think you'll find I've been following the same line of logic throughout, that players should not be rewarded for doing nothing or risking nothing.

 

[Obscenitor]

I have no problem whatsoever with adventure bands. From what I can tell, they're well-designed. Adventure bands don't give you free experience, they transfer experience. However, somebody has to do the work to get that experience, which is why they seem fair to me.

How are adventure bands any different than this Grupo situation? Someone can be adventure banded with someone else and get 100% free exp. If you are legitimizing this by saying that someone is doing the work so it is okay, how about in the case of Grupo? Someone is boxing him and arguably doing more work than the person funneling exp into an adventure band.

 

[eqjenius]

How are adventure bands any different than this Grupo situation? Someone can be adventure banded with someone else and get 100% free exp. If you are legitimizing this by saying that someone is doing the work so it is okay, how about in the case of Grupo? Someone is boxing him and arguably doing more work than the person funneling exp into an adventure band.

An adventure band takes the experience of one toon and cuts it in half or thirds, or however many people are in the adventure band. Adding someone to an adventure band requires consent from both players online at the same time in the same zone. If Solo wanted to gain experience this way he could, but then he would have to drop this person from the adventure band the next time he logged on or his experience would be cut in half. Finally, if lots of people were playing Grupo, he'd have to be constantly switching people in and out of his adventure band, which requires his time and attention, things he's probably unwilling to invest.

The ONLY situation where your question would apply is when a person Solo doesn't know is boxing with Grupo. In this situation, their experience would be cut in half, but that's a small price to pay for having access to content you could not access any other way. They would also still get 100% of the loot and faction in this scenario.

 

[luciferblack]

How are adventure bands any different than this Grupo situation?

 

[Rorne]

Why is the apple on the right a different colour

 

[Silosobi]

First off, I don't think you quite grasp the barrier experience creates in SoD. Your play style is pretty different from the majority of people. Most people just want to hang around with some friends and slay dragons. At some point in the game, you start needing (at least in the minds/eyes of guild recruiters/leaders) lots of exp to continue progressing in the raid game. I have known numerous people who quit SoD because they didn't have the time or didn't want to commit the time to gain the exp points "required" to continue raiding. SoD has been around for a while, and people who have been playing consistently for years have had the time to accumulate massive amounts of exp. Now consider someone new entering the raid game, they raid a lot and get into a higher tier guild and suddenly they are expected to get to the same experience level as people who have been around for years. Its no surprise that the only people who make it are ultra hardcore, and others who can't see putting in that time often just quit.

Also just LOL at your adv band argument.

Adventure bands are OK because someone else works to give another player/character free exp they didnt work for.

Grupo situation is NOT OK because someone puts in the extra effort to box a tank along with their own character, and grupo gets exp he didn't work for.

Sorry, but in both situations someone puts in extra effort so that another character gets free exp. The only real difference I see is that with Grupo at least there is mutual benefit, since that person can probably gain exp or quest or w/e at a faster rate than they would before. If getting exp w/o putting in effort is wrong, then adv. bands are wrong.

And your extrapolation on guest lock doesn't work. Faction lock will not and should not ever be added. Its too easy to exploit. There is always going to be a level of risk in sharing info, that risk just shouldn't include complete destruction of the character.

 

[Otcho]

Why is the apple on the right a different colour

(maybe get some glasses nerd)