The beastlord situation - balancing requests
- Thread starter Glamrin
- Start date
One issue with DPS parses on raids is other DPS classes (monk etc) will have Giantkin cast on them but usually when I'm on my enc I don't giantkin BSTS cause it's not mana efficient.
Not to say that his points are wrong but it should be taken into account when looking at the figures.
Not to say that his points are wrong but it should be taken into account when looking at the figures.
Glamrin
Staff Emeritus
name starttime endtime duration dmg DPS Hit Misses %hits MaxH MinH AvgH
Warder Dagrath - nov 01
Cookiemonster (magician pet) Total: 22:14:36 22:19:58 00:05:23 42166 130,54 597 275 68,5% 250 29 71
Mrfantastic (Beastlord pet) Total: 22:14:38 22:19:59 00:05:22 33431 103,82 572 310 64,9% 191 11 58
Clockwork - nov 05
Cookiemonster (magician pet) Total: 23:10:24 23:14:57 00:04:34 33576 122,54 511 184 73,5% 190 21 66
Mrfantastic (Beastlord pet) Total: 23:10:59 23:14:58 00:04:00 22792 94,97 409 193 67,9% 450 22 56
name starttime endtime duration dmg DPS Hit MaxH MinH AvgH
Lokatal - nov 22
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 22:11:30 22:15:19 00:03:50 9,184 39.93 178 450 22 52
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 22:11:18 22:15:22 00:04:05 14,196 57.94 214 197 25 66
Steelbone (necro pet) 22:11:18 22:15:25 00:04:08 16,574 66.83 326 130 23 51
Deyranni - nov 24
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 20:52:11 20:57:49 00:05:39 29,172 86.05 538 100 20 54
Steelbone (necro pet) 20:52:17 20:57:48 00:05:32 30,014 90.40 554 95 24 54
Aken - nov 25
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 21:55:32 22:03:51 00:08:20 61,649 123.30 897 250 22 69
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 21:55:37 22:03:51 00:08:15 47,782 96.53 846 130 17 56
Steelbone (necro pet) 21:55:50 22:03:46 00:07:57 36,306 76.11 629 130 22 58
Denos - nov 25
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 22:36:20 22:42:46 00:06:27 23,636 61.07 577 86 6 41
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 22:36:17 22:42:46 00:06:30 30,809 79.00 573 197 6 54
Steelbone (necro pet) 22:36:29 22:40:03 00:03:35 10,320 48.00 251 166 8 41
Lokatal - dec 02
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 21:58:17 22:03:47 00:05:31 14,608 44.13 285 250 21 51
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 21:58:18 22:03:47 00:05:30 32,522 98.55 501 250 18 65
Eltrac the skycaller - dec 03
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 21:58:05 22:02:51 00:04:47 25,232 87.92 452 102 20 56
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 21:58:03 22:03:08 00:05:06 35,404 115.70 528 197 21 67
Steelbone (necro pet) 21:58:10 22:02:52 00:04:43 25,825 91.25 456 160 23 57
Deyranni - dec 04
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 20:35:12 20:39:59 00:04:48 28,529 99.06 538 97 20 53
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 20:34:56 20:40:00 00:05:05 42,477 139.27 676 250 18 63
Steelbone (necro pet) 20:34:59 20:39:59 00:05:01 29,802 99.01 541 125 21 55
Ghar - dec 04
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 21:25:44 21:29:49 00:04:06 16,000 65.04 292 99 24 55
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 21:25:44 21:29:49 00:04:06 20,707 84.17 313 250 25 66
Steelbone (necro pet) 21:25:42 21:29:51 00:04:10 26,190 104.76 469 99 22 56
Farg - dec 04
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 22:27:25 22:31:47 00:04:23 27,637 105.08 510 125 20 54
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 22:27:32 22:31:47 00:04:16 32,649 127.54 530 250 23 62
A few things must be noted about the parses. First off, the necromancer pet only has pet str and pet health 6 items (vs magician and beastlord having pet str and pet health 7 focus items), each step of pet str does affect pet dps noticeably. The Necromancer pet does have lower pet health item and is generally weaker and with worse heals than magician and beastlord and yes this means that the necro pet does die a lot more often. What this means is that in most of these parses (probably all but I dont want to say too much) the beastlord and magician pet has full raidbuffs and all petbuffs while the necromancer pet doesnt always have all raidbuffs (this explains the fluctuating percentage difference in necromancer pet dps).
The beastlord and magician pets are always attacking the mobs from behind when this is favorable (ie dps goes up, doesnt end up in dead pet). The necromancer pet might not always be doing so, ie in some scenarios are attacking from front.
Beastlord aa pet haste is always on the pet, magician aa pet haste isnt always cast on the pet since it overwrites magician spell pethaste and is short duration, once it fades the magician needs to recast spell haste on pet.
--------
So, what do these numbers tell us? Well first off as can be seen by the two first examples the beastlord pet generally misses the mob a lot more than the magician pet. At the same time the avg hit is a lot lower for the beast pet than for the magicianpet at the same time as the minimum hit doesnt differ much and the max hit doesnt always point in the same direction. This indicates that the beastlord pet is affected by a higherlvl mob and higher ac/avoidance to a much greater degree than the magician pet is. (ie this is a problem that increases on harder mobs vs easier mobs where the difference wouldnt be as high, ie it affects the class more and more the higher in the raidgame we move).
This difference in min/max and avg hits remains consistent throughout these parses... The Necromancer pet does end up closer to that of the beastlord, however it must be taken into account that the necromancer pet doesnt have the same focus items (ie is on a lower lvl in the raidgame because of it) and dies more often (ie isnt fully raidbuffed when the other pets often are).
As can also be seen the beastlord pet consistently ends up quite a bit below the magician pet in dps. Even the necromancer pet ends up quite a bit above the beastlord pet in dps in most of these instances, and the necro pet doesnt have pet str 7 and is not at all times fully buffed (which explains the numbers where the difference is smaller or the instance where the beast pet is slightly more dps than the necromancer pet).
In a previous post on magician pets Jayelle mentions the following:
I have a clear memory myself aswell of this being said, ie the beastlord was supposed to be the #1 pet class. This previous intention doesnt quite match that well with the above dps parses where the beastlord pet is being beaten by a necromancer pet with lower pet focus items.
Warder Dagrath - nov 01
Cookiemonster (magician pet) Total: 22:14:36 22:19:58 00:05:23 42166 130,54 597 275 68,5% 250 29 71
Mrfantastic (Beastlord pet) Total: 22:14:38 22:19:59 00:05:22 33431 103,82 572 310 64,9% 191 11 58
Clockwork - nov 05
Cookiemonster (magician pet) Total: 23:10:24 23:14:57 00:04:34 33576 122,54 511 184 73,5% 190 21 66
Mrfantastic (Beastlord pet) Total: 23:10:59 23:14:58 00:04:00 22792 94,97 409 193 67,9% 450 22 56
name starttime endtime duration dmg DPS Hit MaxH MinH AvgH
Lokatal - nov 22
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 22:11:30 22:15:19 00:03:50 9,184 39.93 178 450 22 52
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 22:11:18 22:15:22 00:04:05 14,196 57.94 214 197 25 66
Steelbone (necro pet) 22:11:18 22:15:25 00:04:08 16,574 66.83 326 130 23 51
Deyranni - nov 24
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 20:52:11 20:57:49 00:05:39 29,172 86.05 538 100 20 54
Steelbone (necro pet) 20:52:17 20:57:48 00:05:32 30,014 90.40 554 95 24 54
Aken - nov 25
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 21:55:32 22:03:51 00:08:20 61,649 123.30 897 250 22 69
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 21:55:37 22:03:51 00:08:15 47,782 96.53 846 130 17 56
Steelbone (necro pet) 21:55:50 22:03:46 00:07:57 36,306 76.11 629 130 22 58
Denos - nov 25
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 22:36:20 22:42:46 00:06:27 23,636 61.07 577 86 6 41
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 22:36:17 22:42:46 00:06:30 30,809 79.00 573 197 6 54
Steelbone (necro pet) 22:36:29 22:40:03 00:03:35 10,320 48.00 251 166 8 41
Lokatal - dec 02
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 21:58:17 22:03:47 00:05:31 14,608 44.13 285 250 21 51
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 21:58:18 22:03:47 00:05:30 32,522 98.55 501 250 18 65
Eltrac the skycaller - dec 03
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 21:58:05 22:02:51 00:04:47 25,232 87.92 452 102 20 56
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 21:58:03 22:03:08 00:05:06 35,404 115.70 528 197 21 67
Steelbone (necro pet) 21:58:10 22:02:52 00:04:43 25,825 91.25 456 160 23 57
Deyranni - dec 04
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 20:35:12 20:39:59 00:04:48 28,529 99.06 538 97 20 53
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 20:34:56 20:40:00 00:05:05 42,477 139.27 676 250 18 63
Steelbone (necro pet) 20:34:59 20:39:59 00:05:01 29,802 99.01 541 125 21 55
Ghar - dec 04
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 21:25:44 21:29:49 00:04:06 16,000 65.04 292 99 24 55
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 21:25:44 21:29:49 00:04:06 20,707 84.17 313 250 25 66
Steelbone (necro pet) 21:25:42 21:29:51 00:04:10 26,190 104.76 469 99 22 56
Farg - dec 04
Mrfantastic (bst pet) 22:27:25 22:31:47 00:04:23 27,637 105.08 510 125 20 54
Cookiemonster (mag pet) 22:27:32 22:31:47 00:04:16 32,649 127.54 530 250 23 62
A few things must be noted about the parses. First off, the necromancer pet only has pet str and pet health 6 items (vs magician and beastlord having pet str and pet health 7 focus items), each step of pet str does affect pet dps noticeably. The Necromancer pet does have lower pet health item and is generally weaker and with worse heals than magician and beastlord and yes this means that the necro pet does die a lot more often. What this means is that in most of these parses (probably all but I dont want to say too much) the beastlord and magician pet has full raidbuffs and all petbuffs while the necromancer pet doesnt always have all raidbuffs (this explains the fluctuating percentage difference in necromancer pet dps).
The beastlord and magician pets are always attacking the mobs from behind when this is favorable (ie dps goes up, doesnt end up in dead pet). The necromancer pet might not always be doing so, ie in some scenarios are attacking from front.
Beastlord aa pet haste is always on the pet, magician aa pet haste isnt always cast on the pet since it overwrites magician spell pethaste and is short duration, once it fades the magician needs to recast spell haste on pet.
--------
So, what do these numbers tell us? Well first off as can be seen by the two first examples the beastlord pet generally misses the mob a lot more than the magician pet. At the same time the avg hit is a lot lower for the beast pet than for the magicianpet at the same time as the minimum hit doesnt differ much and the max hit doesnt always point in the same direction. This indicates that the beastlord pet is affected by a higherlvl mob and higher ac/avoidance to a much greater degree than the magician pet is. (ie this is a problem that increases on harder mobs vs easier mobs where the difference wouldnt be as high, ie it affects the class more and more the higher in the raidgame we move).
This difference in min/max and avg hits remains consistent throughout these parses... The Necromancer pet does end up closer to that of the beastlord, however it must be taken into account that the necromancer pet doesnt have the same focus items (ie is on a lower lvl in the raidgame because of it) and dies more often (ie isnt fully raidbuffed when the other pets often are).
As can also be seen the beastlord pet consistently ends up quite a bit below the magician pet in dps. Even the necromancer pet ends up quite a bit above the beastlord pet in dps in most of these instances, and the necro pet doesnt have pet str 7 and is not at all times fully buffed (which explains the numbers where the difference is smaller or the instance where the beast pet is slightly more dps than the necromancer pet).
In a previous post on magician pets Jayelle mentions the following:
I have a clear memory myself aswell of this being said, ie the beastlord was supposed to be the #1 pet class. This previous intention doesnt quite match that well with the above dps parses where the beastlord pet is being beaten by a necromancer pet with lower pet focus items.
Allielyn
*Pony*
I can't speak for beastlord vs. magician at this time, but I can say your parses for monk vs. beastlord were way off - Unless something MAJOR has changed since the Monk/Beast/Rogue/Ranger parses (and I have not reason to believe it has) those parses are still viable. The only thing that might have change is a beast pet dps increase (based on companion strength increase).
Parses: http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php?topic=13381.40
Bottom of page three.
Parses: http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php?topic=13381.40
Bottom of page three.
Glamrin
Staff Emeritus
unfortunately those parses doesnt include Shadowknight and more importantly Paladin from behind, including dot/lifetap dmg which would be much more interesting to see than the difference between monk and beastlord. also take into account that keeping a pet healed, up and doing dps from right angle of mob will lower the real dps of the beastlord since he will have to heal pet, move pet to attack from right angle, rebuff pet and such which takes away from bst melee dps. In those parses pet is supposed to be 30% of the beastlord total dps.. however those parses were done without having to heal the pet ie in reality bst dps wouldve been lower, also a pet is situational ie if it dies and loses buffs dps goes down a lot, on some mobs it wont be as good as pure melee dps and so on...
also Im not sure nof the lvl/difficulty of the parsing mob, but a higher lvl mob would affect the beastlord and beastlord pet dps more percentage wise than it would affect the monk
Pet reasons for this Ive mentioned some of above and should be obvious. Beastlord reason is that bst blunt,piercing and 2hand skills max at 245 whereas monk max at 250 (ie the harder mob, the more often the beastlord will miss the mob compared to the monk)
Anyways my main points here is about the beastlord pet. Not the beastlord vs monk situation. The Beastlord vs paladin situation however would be really interesting to get a greater insight in.
Even so monks main job is puller not dps, beastlords main job is petclass and buffer. Even in the parses you linked though at higher aa's and gear the monk dps is higher than the total bst dps (including pet). the total difference is about 15-17% in favor of the monk in the parses you linked, in a situation where the beast pet cant be used the difference would be about 60-65% .. those parses also dont take into account lost dps when for example healing pet, or moving pet or such things, ofcourse it also doesnt care that a beastlord has no way of shaking dps ie he has to move in at a later time on a mob than the monk can in order to not overagro.
That the difference in dps can be so huge on mobs where pet is a bigger problem or when the pet has died and is missing buffs is ok. The beastlord is a pet class before anything else. This however illuminates how much the beast pet dps problem affects the class total. I dont think it would be wrong if the difference between a beastlord with pet and monk dps were to become smaller, there are still so many situations where that static pet dps from those parses wouldnt be reachable and this would still give the monk a clear advantage.
also Im not sure nof the lvl/difficulty of the parsing mob, but a higher lvl mob would affect the beastlord and beastlord pet dps more percentage wise than it would affect the monk
Pet reasons for this Ive mentioned some of above and should be obvious. Beastlord reason is that bst blunt,piercing and 2hand skills max at 245 whereas monk max at 250 (ie the harder mob, the more often the beastlord will miss the mob compared to the monk)
Anyways my main points here is about the beastlord pet. Not the beastlord vs monk situation. The Beastlord vs paladin situation however would be really interesting to get a greater insight in.
Even so monks main job is puller not dps, beastlords main job is petclass and buffer. Even in the parses you linked though at higher aa's and gear the monk dps is higher than the total bst dps (including pet). the total difference is about 15-17% in favor of the monk in the parses you linked, in a situation where the beast pet cant be used the difference would be about 60-65% .. those parses also dont take into account lost dps when for example healing pet, or moving pet or such things, ofcourse it also doesnt care that a beastlord has no way of shaking dps ie he has to move in at a later time on a mob than the monk can in order to not overagro.
That the difference in dps can be so huge on mobs where pet is a bigger problem or when the pet has died and is missing buffs is ok. The beastlord is a pet class before anything else. This however illuminates how much the beast pet dps problem affects the class total. I dont think it would be wrong if the difference between a beastlord with pet and monk dps were to become smaller, there are still so many situations where that static pet dps from those parses wouldnt be reachable and this would still give the monk a clear advantage.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Glamrin said:
Well yeah, but everyone that has a pet, is in that same boat. I wouldn't really call them situational just based on the fact that they die
syduck:.Few things I want to know though. Lokatal. Wth is up with the parses there? They seem to be fairly extreme outliers. In most of the other situations it's not that far off.
Hit %'s for the rest of the parses plz. Pretty reasonably sure that is where the problem appears to be on the fights where there is a larger gulf. The mage hit % seems to be within a reasonable distance (AA's for it, don't know if bsts get the same share unerring precision aa's). But that is of 2 situations where the % is given.
Also
Glamrin said:
Whoever told you that is wrong. They stack.
It should be cast on any boss mob minus emergency situations (ie panic button) with short recovery times afterwards, and situations where the next is fairly close by and rapid progress towards it can be made.
Also what is the level of the beast pet (actual pet mobs level, not the spell)?
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
ryutakin said:
That's the angle I was thinking. Would just a general increase in level affect it's hit % drastically I wonder.
Dzillon
Dalayan Master
To my knowledge only mage pets share melee AAs with the owner.
For that person saying Beastlords are the main pet class...you can think it sure, but mages to me have at least a simiarily strong emphasis on their pet. Fun stuff it was a mage saying that.
I'd rather see the BST pet being one level higher then, maybe temporarily for parsing , dmg should almost match relic pets. But are we only considering super high-end raidgame here ? cause if we up BST pet level by one or two, it should be done for previous pets as well ; and gogo overpowering.
Or make BST pets also share melee AAs. But it's not like it wasn't evoked before.
For that person saying Beastlords are the main pet class...you can think it sure, but mages to me have at least a simiarily strong emphasis on their pet. Fun stuff it was a mage saying that.
I'd rather see the BST pet being one level higher then, maybe temporarily for parsing , dmg should almost match relic pets. But are we only considering super high-end raidgame here ? cause if we up BST pet level by one or two, it should be done for previous pets as well ; and gogo overpowering.
Or make BST pets also share melee AAs. But it's not like it wasn't evoked before.
Glamrin
Staff Emeritus
I think that the no1 pet class thing was said by developers when changes were last done to pet classes dzillon, ie not said by a player but by staff, if you go back on mainpage history I think it can be found there. Sometime around when we got a spell changed to add resists to our pets instead of having a pet purification we didnt use and when the worthless pet aa was changed to pet overhaste.Dzillon said:
I dont understand why previous pets should be changed in any way, they arent affected by the problems and no, the suggested changes wouldnt make lower level beasts overpowered, it wouldnt really show that much for them.
Making beast pets share melee aa's (ie maybe not directly mirror, but reflect the beastlord stats) would be excellent yes.
--
As for the parses, the first two are from my logs, but I got some errors in the logfile for more recent time and the rest of them are parses done by a friend on maintank and the reason I excluded hit % there is simply that he didnt include it. However its not only a complete miss that is affected but also how well you hit a mob when you hit it (ie avg hit) and that info is there. It seems to be inline with my first two parses which indicates that the other numbers should be looking similar. Parser used in both cases is EQcomp 0.799 (build 1668)
Seems I was missinformed on the magician aa situation, Im still pretty new to playing a mage, sorry and thanks for correcting me
On the level of the beastlord pet, it is of a lower level than the magician pet but Im not sure if the level is official knowledge ie if its ok to post it here. I think that changing the beastlord pet level to the same level as the magician pet might be one way to solve most of the problem though.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Glamrin said:
I thought it actually already would have been included, but bst being one of the few classes I haven't played I really have no clue about their aa's. Pretty much Bst and monk are in that category. Everything else I've played.
Glamrin said:Seems I was missinformed on the magician aa situation, Im still pretty new to playing a mage, sorry and thanks for correcting me
Np dude, had to check myself. I was 99% sure but on the off chance of a change y'know. It's a verrrrrryyyy happy aa, adds a ton of shit, which is why it's in my panic series and a boss button. If it did overwrite it would be faaar less useful b/c of its duration.
I like your suggestions but i doubt they will upgrade beastlords in anyway DPS wise (pet or otherwise )
Omega- 90 - 110 dps
Vexiz- 180-220 dps
so being around 300ish average between pet and myself (using 2handers)
anyways since beastlords were introduced during luclin, they dont really fill a certain slot in raids. they are more of a utility class and with cunning adding to the caster dps over all i cant really see a raid running without a bst, along with sv providing more atk for melees
I know bards have fiery warcry of tarhyl while it does increase spell damage iam pretty sure it doesnt have the negative aggro component to it and iam pretty sure its weaker than cunning . cunning being 15 percent and warcry being 10 or 12 percent
Beastlords also do very well at soloing being they can slow and heal .
The only real problem i have is that the beastlord damage itself can be alittle sketchy at times due to the fact that they dont get double atk as a innate ability it comes from aa abilities so dps can vary it seems due to misses and such
Omega- 90 - 110 dps
Vexiz- 180-220 dps
so being around 300ish average between pet and myself (using 2handers)
anyways since beastlords were introduced during luclin, they dont really fill a certain slot in raids. they are more of a utility class and with cunning adding to the caster dps over all i cant really see a raid running without a bst, along with sv providing more atk for melees
I know bards have fiery warcry of tarhyl while it does increase spell damage iam pretty sure it doesnt have the negative aggro component to it and iam pretty sure its weaker than cunning . cunning being 15 percent and warcry being 10 or 12 percent
Beastlords also do very well at soloing being they can slow and heal .
The only real problem i have is that the beastlord damage itself can be alittle sketchy at times due to the fact that they dont get double atk as a innate ability it comes from aa abilities so dps can vary it seems due to misses and such
Dzillon
Dalayan Master
Hope I'm allowed to quote TM on the other MAG thread around, this was said the 28th of november.
So 3 levels uh. And apparently stlll easier to keep up. Do we want to lessen the gap between relic pet and 63 pet ? I don't see any objection :dance:
I'm not against more dps but what would monks say if we get too close to them in melee dmg ? If some focus on the class has to be made I'd say do in the pet area with the ideas up here. Melee AA sharing seems a viable solution but I foresee a mage complaint thread :toot: .
And Gladis yeah the pet resists was an awesome idea to fix some completely useless spell (thx Kas for that iirc). Otherwise I'm just pointing it's argueable even if someone of the staff personnally "supposed it to be the #1 pet class". Everyone can assume what he wants. If it means BST pet has to deal as much damage, crit blasts in addition to all it can do...
Glamrin
Staff Emeritus
thanks for that quote from tm dzillon! I didnt know if it was ok for me to post the level differences!
as for the total dps on beastlord, the changes Im primarily wanting wouldnt actually raise our dps from our current possible max much, it would pretty must just make our pet be able to do that dps on higher lvl mobs than it can today (and more often). IE make the beastlord pet dps output keep more on the same level and not differ between 40 -120 dps depending on the mob. The total raise in dps to get it in line with magician pet is some 20-30 (or 40) dps.. I dont think its huge enough to give anyone a reason to complain.
Although my memory isnt 100% on this I have a memory of the #1 pet class quote from jayelle not being an individual view from one staffer but as being something that was written out in clear text on sod mainpage in the changes that was done, ie when the changes were made it was stated to everyone that the intent was that beastlord was supposed to be number 1 pet class (it was definitely stated that beastlord pet was supposed to be above necro pet). (as I said not 100% but I have a memory of something like that) which would mean it was the thought at that time from all of staff.
The easier to keep up bit is basically because we have healing aa's and our heal is ok, especially when it crits. magiician heal kind of sucks with current refresh.
as for the total dps on beastlord, the changes Im primarily wanting wouldnt actually raise our dps from our current possible max much, it would pretty must just make our pet be able to do that dps on higher lvl mobs than it can today (and more often). IE make the beastlord pet dps output keep more on the same level and not differ between 40 -120 dps depending on the mob. The total raise in dps to get it in line with magician pet is some 20-30 (or 40) dps.. I dont think its huge enough to give anyone a reason to complain.
Although my memory isnt 100% on this I have a memory of the #1 pet class quote from jayelle not being an individual view from one staffer but as being something that was written out in clear text on sod mainpage in the changes that was done, ie when the changes were made it was stated to everyone that the intent was that beastlord was supposed to be number 1 pet class (it was definitely stated that beastlord pet was supposed to be above necro pet). (as I said not 100% but I have a memory of something like that) which would mean it was the thought at that time from all of staff.
The easier to keep up bit is basically because we have healing aa's and our heal is ok, especially when it crits. magiician heal kind of sucks with current refresh.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Minor thread hijack: Can you guys expand your discussion to include theoretical ways to use BST mana? Between either doing something to the ice nuke, or my old suggestion of giving bsts a few shortish-duration, modest-recastish dot spells to keep on mobs, or what have you.
It's a scooch offtopic, I know, but since all the bsts are already clustered here I figured I'd toss that out for some useful discussion. Rebalancing overall BST power takes time and consensus, but fixing their lack of useful spells is a much faster, much cleaner process.
It's a scooch offtopic, I know, but since all the bsts are already clustered here I figured I'd toss that out for some useful discussion. Rebalancing overall BST power takes time and consensus, but fixing their lack of useful spells is a much faster, much cleaner process.
AoiMasamune
Dalayan Beginner
Tough topic without significantly altering a Bsts overall power level. Couple things come to mind though.
First off, theres the obvious answers that you already named, short duration DoTs and such. Personally I could care less about Rage of the Wild, and would gladly take an expanded disease and poison dot line. Disease especially.
I've talked before about adding in a disease DoT to break up the stretch between sicken at level 15 and plague at level 65. Perhaps push plague back into the lower 60s or even upper 50s and add a new disease DoT at 65 with a significant debuff aspect. While I'm at it, a lower level disease DoT would really help nicely to break up the stetch between levels 39 and 49 for up and coming beasts.
Another thought is mixing up the elemental specializations, like a cold based DoT that stacks across the board. It could be extremely short duration (read: like 3 - 5 ticks) but do significantly more damage (and use more mana) than Blizzard Blast, which is the last DD we get and at level 59.
Cunning and spiritual bliss seem to make beastlords fall into more of a support role. There are a couple ways to go about expanding in this area that I can think of.
1) A short duration reverse damage shield. (Where you hit a mob and the damage shield kicks in, instead of them hitting you) I believe clerics had this originally on Live. It doesn't expand the beasts utility to any huge extent, but it does add another unique reason to have them around.
2) A mana battery type function. I cast a spell that costs 200+ mana and it gives a member of my party half that. Once again, raid and group utility. Perhaps have it cost hps as well, it would be like reversing spiritual bliss.
Just as a general beastlord point, personally, I think 65 felt very anti-climactic. Plague and an extra 10% on my slow were nice, but Acumen... Even Sha's Protection was good to have, but not particularly exciting. A level 65 pet spell would be just what the doctor ordered imho.
For some controversy, I think theres a lot of room for beastlord ancients and relics. Yes I know they're technically a hybrid class, but relic pet, DD, and DoTs (dare I ask for a relic Spiritual Bliss line?) would be fantastic.
First off, theres the obvious answers that you already named, short duration DoTs and such. Personally I could care less about Rage of the Wild, and would gladly take an expanded disease and poison dot line. Disease especially.
I've talked before about adding in a disease DoT to break up the stretch between sicken at level 15 and plague at level 65. Perhaps push plague back into the lower 60s or even upper 50s and add a new disease DoT at 65 with a significant debuff aspect. While I'm at it, a lower level disease DoT would really help nicely to break up the stetch between levels 39 and 49 for up and coming beasts.
Another thought is mixing up the elemental specializations, like a cold based DoT that stacks across the board. It could be extremely short duration (read: like 3 - 5 ticks) but do significantly more damage (and use more mana) than Blizzard Blast, which is the last DD we get and at level 59.
Cunning and spiritual bliss seem to make beastlords fall into more of a support role. There are a couple ways to go about expanding in this area that I can think of.
1) A short duration reverse damage shield. (Where you hit a mob and the damage shield kicks in, instead of them hitting you) I believe clerics had this originally on Live. It doesn't expand the beasts utility to any huge extent, but it does add another unique reason to have them around.
2) A mana battery type function. I cast a spell that costs 200+ mana and it gives a member of my party half that. Once again, raid and group utility. Perhaps have it cost hps as well, it would be like reversing spiritual bliss.
Just as a general beastlord point, personally, I think 65 felt very anti-climactic. Plague and an extra 10% on my slow were nice, but Acumen... Even Sha's Protection was good to have, but not particularly exciting. A level 65 pet spell would be just what the doctor ordered imho.
For some controversy, I think theres a lot of room for beastlord ancients and relics. Yes I know they're technically a hybrid class, but relic pet, DD, and DoTs (dare I ask for a relic Spiritual Bliss line?) would be fantastic.