T9+ Monk (and Bst) gloves

Stonewalljack

Dalayan Elder
I'm making this post to discuss tuning of the new fists from Bloodstorm tunnels. For dps, elemental damage, proc damage (type and resist adjust influence zones where effective), and proc rate matter for fists. Delay is shifting based on str/dex amount as well as the influence of the elemental damage (each elemental damage adds 0.05 to ratio, causing Slaar's algorithm to shift damage/delay), and is a discussion for another topic. For simplified comparison, it's easier to just ignore delay, partly because ratio caps out based on hidden str bonus (so 485 each stat with hidden str aa, 525 after opus of str/dex II). With blazewind gloves, this gives delay of 16, and I estimate a damage of 22 for ratio of 1.375 with maxed aa and codex bonus to str/dex hidden cap.

T13 Matron:
Ele Damage - 7
Proc Damage - 640 fire (-300 resist adjust)
Proc Rate - 3.3%
Average proc base damage per round - 640x3.3% = 21.12

T12 Golem Grip:
Ele Damage - 7
Proc Damage - 250 magic pbaoe (-250 resist adjust) with 50 hp self nuke recourse
Proc Rate - 2%
Average proc base damage per round - 250x2% = 5 per target, so 30 max

T10 Serizus gloves:
Ele damage - 6
Proc Damage - 400 disease (0 resist adjust, but less resisted element)
Proc rate - 4.5%
Average proc base damage per round - 400x4.5% = 19

T9 Silence:
Ele damage - 5
Proc Damage - 125 magic (-50 resist adjust)
Proc rate - 6%
Average proc base damage per round - 125x6% = 7.5

With the bump to Matron (about a year ago?) they are superior to serizus gloves if the target's fire resist is 9 or less as they will do more white damage, and with the huge negative resist adjust they will land for close to full damage once resist debuffs are in (and fire gets extra debuff from druid archaic then other elements). In exp settings Matron defensive stats are much larger then serizus, and I only find myself switching out in First Ruins bloodfires, where the mobs are immune.

Discussion:
With the ele damage equal to Maton, Golem grips will be even in melee damage. It takes 4 mobs to surpass serizus, and 5 mobs to surpass matron on spell damage. To put it in a desirable spot vs other gloves, I suggest increasing proc rate to 4-5%. 4% would out perform serizus at 2 mobs, and matron at 3. 5% would outperform both at 2 mobs.

Elephant in the room:
With entropy's spine (T13) you lose single target dps, but gain damage on round kicks (2 hits on 3 targets) as well as over 2x magic damage.

Pheonix flame (from my understanding) does average of 750 damage above 50% mob HP and 1500 below 50%. So 1125x6.2%/4 delay = 17.4 dps x 0.83 (accuracy penalty) = 14.5 base magic dps per target.
Adjusting golem grips for 16 delay from early calculation: 5/1.6 3.125 dps per fist x2 fists = 6.25 base magic dps per target.

With a proc rate of 4%, fists would underperform magic damage. At 5% they would do more damage with straight attacking, but less with round kick. Round kicking with spine would give more white damage, as well as high percentage chance to proc aoe, as the additional rounds don't care about delay.

Conclusion:
If the proc rate was increased to 5% I would used these gloves in both some single target and some aoe situations, mainly group or raid. In any situation were I would be taking agro, I would probably use spine given the defensive bonus from holding a weapon, the less ripostes from lower delay, and the self nuke applied with from the gloves procing. If their was no recourse or it was a self heal, it would be a lot closer call.
 

Stonewalljack

Dalayan Elder
Update:
Fuwok had asked to make a post comparing the existing fists, after reviewing these numbers he stated he thinks the fist have a niche already.
 

fuwok

Dalayan Pious Diety
Fuwok says this:

I think this item might be pretty powerful already, but I am willing to give it a little more zip. Increasing proc rate to 2.5% but I am wary of going past that.
 

Stonewalljack

Dalayan Elder
Yeah, either way its a direct upgrade to silence with the higher white damage and gives a second and lower tier aoe option for monks.

Edit: I forgot to mention Ule's Conception, but with a base damage of 27 fire with no resist adjust, even a 10% proc rate makes it worse then serizus at the same tier. (2.7 damage per round per mob, max 16.2)
 
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Snake

Dalayan Elder
I think there is a matter of "risk fitting the reward" here.

Currently I don't think anyone but LA kills either IM or BW, but I'm pretty sure that the Golem Grip will soon be in the hands of other guilds than just LA.

This is not a problem persay, the problem is, that you can now get a very close alternative to these two t13 weapons "pretty easy", heck when stuff resist fire, they are even better.

In the light of risk reward, they are very very good.

If they came of Thaz him self, yeah then I too would argue they needed to be stronger.
 
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