Suggestions to make Wizards more interesting
- Thread starter Pecannius
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Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
What the title says. For newer members. Without adjusting their overall dps.
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I believe your first post under suggestion is counter to just what you just said. Many of your combos has extra damage worked in, whereas the few others offer some utility. What is it exactly, that you want?
Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
Not sure the point if continuing this discussion but since you asked:
Or in other words, the initial suggestion did not take into effect or even consider the effect that it would have on overall dps. On the contrary, I had never cared/wanted to buff wizard dps, just make them more fun to play. I understand that it would effect their dps, but I was not focusing on that (in retrospect i should have made this disassociation clear). If people agreed that wizards should be made for fun then discussion could be had about what was to be done to balance the dps. But the community on the forums already thinks they are fun to play so it doesn't matter. Capiche?
Kedrin
Dalayan Pious Diety
A combo system like this is just so hard to execute with so little benefits. Perhaps I am alone in thinking pressing 1, 2, 1 over 1, 1, 1 doesn't overload my fun sensors in my brain and immerse me to a point were I'm in a bar wondering if there are girls there. If there was I would totally do them by the way.
What i am trying tk say is this: The highest damage output would be calculate and that would be used by default by every wizard in the game that isn't an idiot. Resistance to spells would come into play a small amount and that might be taken into account but that is it.
Sweet your whole idea was just turned into wizards hitting *this* combination of keys other than hitting *that* combination of keys. It's ok thought because it was all in the name of fun right? Just look at all the fun them wizards are having.
A much better idea would be to dream up a reactive system. Say the wizard crits, if his next spell is a 5 mana nuke it does more damage than normal and he gains some extra mana. If a wizards nuke gets resisted if his next spell is from a different elemental type than it has a very low chance of being resisted and half of the first nuke procs. I'm just making crap up but I hope you can see just how different these two basic ideas are and why my is superior, other than the fact it is mine.
What i am trying tk say is this: The highest damage output would be calculate and that would be used by default by every wizard in the game that isn't an idiot. Resistance to spells would come into play a small amount and that might be taken into account but that is it.
Sweet your whole idea was just turned into wizards hitting *this* combination of keys other than hitting *that* combination of keys. It's ok thought because it was all in the name of fun right? Just look at all the fun them wizards are having.
A much better idea would be to dream up a reactive system. Say the wizard crits, if his next spell is a 5 mana nuke it does more damage than normal and he gains some extra mana. If a wizards nuke gets resisted if his next spell is from a different elemental type than it has a very low chance of being resisted and half of the first nuke procs. I'm just making crap up but I hope you can see just how different these two basic ideas are and why my is superior, other than the fact it is mine.
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
Agreed. After I posted this I thought of monk combos. After realizing this, I was thinking maybe adding long cooldowns to each combo (monk combos and these wizard combs) would add some variety to the system. Making the cooldowns around the time where you could cycle through 3-4 combos before having the good one come up again. Then maybe adding some random factor for wizards like primals reset the cooldown on these stances for fun.
When posting this I had contemplated some sort of reactive mechanic, I think that's a good suggestion as well.
Loxo
Dalayan Elder
I had fun reading this thread.
I think the disparity between what made a combo system work for warriors was that it worked well with a previous change (foelock) with similar intent; and brought them inline... no... made them viable without a great amount of unreliability and tedium... with a game that changed into a game of cutting down big swathes of mobs.
For monks I believe the addition of combos worked following the logic that it doesn't make much difference or draw much notice when you drop a small pile of $ on an already large pile of $. Also using those extra buttons whose usefulness was often questionable gives many gamers a completionist hardon. Or, possibly, it gives monks some things to execute in proper order and timing to eek out a tiny bit more dps or utility when trying to maximize; which has always been popular with people playing wizards.
The idea is not bad or un-fun though really.
For wizards, or any caster really, combos coordinated across characters sound fun.
I think the disparity between what made a combo system work for warriors was that it worked well with a previous change (foelock) with similar intent; and brought them inline... no... made them viable without a great amount of unreliability and tedium... with a game that changed into a game of cutting down big swathes of mobs.
For monks I believe the addition of combos worked following the logic that it doesn't make much difference or draw much notice when you drop a small pile of $ on an already large pile of $. Also using those extra buttons whose usefulness was often questionable gives many gamers a completionist hardon. Or, possibly, it gives monks some things to execute in proper order and timing to eek out a tiny bit more dps or utility when trying to maximize; which has always been popular with people playing wizards.
The idea is not bad or un-fun though really.
For wizards, or any caster really, combos coordinated across characters sound fun.
darksabbath
Dalayan Master
Monk combos fell flat on their face, sadly. The idea sounds really cool, but the debuff/buffs of most combos came no where close the proc damage of the one combo. And since that combo is rk x 3, all it did was replace flying kick spam with round kick spam, and make one of the monk class tomes worthless in the process.
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
I often wonder why they didnt simply change that proc kick combo to use more abilities than just round kick? Heck even putting in flying kick would force monks to pay more attention so they got that flying kick in the correct place.
This seems like a good idea for wizards that maybe just needs more input on how to balance it. It would be really cool to give wizards a "combo" that cast a concuss upon completion and another that cast a harvest (with chance to stun as well) upon completion to add some interesting mechanics for example:
Cold - Cold - Cold = Harvest with chance to stun
Cold- Fire - Magic = Concuss
This does need to be considered for raid monsters that are also immune or extremely resistant to certain magic types as well which i think will probably add a lot more difficult in balancing.
The reactive system would be also very cool i think if it had some kind of risk reward system implemented such as after a crit (kedrins 5 mana nuke idea from above) if you cast a regular nuke it does double damage but you get stunned for X seconds
I like when monk combo is brought up everyone always complains that it changed from flying kick spam to round kick spam. The reason why it's so terrible in my eyes is you give up, well my monk gives up, roughly 35% of avoidances to do less dps than before all the monk/bane reworks.
harveydent
Dalayan Beginner
I like my wizard as it is. Leave us alone and pls don't do any of this. I don't wanna push a thousand buttons to do the same dps basically. I just want to blow things up as simply as possible.
Thank you,
Kurzax
Thank you,
Kurzax
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
Was it combos that took that avoidance away or the weight restriction change? Seems like the two were, for whatever reason, conflated. They were both great changes that invited dozens of pages of people suggesting all kinds of "oh god try anything else" posts.
I say let whoever designed combos (the original unedited system where Tiger Claw/Taunt was in the DPS combo) just go nuts with wizards. Really jazz them up. After that Rangers need some loving- maybe change what direction their ranged targeting cone is facing after each shot so they have to spin in a really specific pattern. Next, make the melody system dependent on playing gems simultaneously. Last, healing is boring so add a multiplier based on the metacritic rating of the album for the song currently playing on your ingame mp3 player- no song is a .00 by default. Really mix things up. Are we having fun yet?
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You forgot mages, need some ideas for that.
Kedrin
Dalayan Pious Diety
Lleoc can feel free to correct me but the short answer is both.
Monks having a weight penalty granted them with a small boost in avoidance. I'm not sure of the exact numbers but I am under the assumption it was too small to notice or possibly even parse efficiency. This was removed once the penalty was removed. This in itself wasn't a huge deal.
I believe that Lleoc is talking about, sorry to put words in your mouth, is the "debuff" recourse that takes place after a successful "DPS" rotation (round kick x3). This strips the monk of 100% of their avoidance and forcing them to tank with only their AC as mitigation.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Wizards are a bit boring at lower tiers, but as you get higher tier items and spells it gets better.
Having put 300+ days /played into maining a wizard, and progressing through all raid tiers and 6man content, the main problems I see with wizards are as follows:
Wizard sustained dps is weak until T9-10ish, especially on 6man content. On tier encounters just last way longer than our mana pool holds out and a lot of content has high resists.
Wizards rely more on a eternal/supreme charm, and tomes for dps than any other class. Because of ultimate/primal blasts, we get more benefit from crit% than any other class. With 8% crit on charm, 8% crit on tomes, another 8% damage to each element, and the smaller bonuses from various other tomes, wizards gain more than 35% dps from farming exp and platinum.
I think wizards are interesting and fun to play once you get a lot of cool gear and enough charm/tomes that you can be a top dps class, but there is a long time in wizard progression where you can have on tier gear/AA/etc with the rest of your guild, but your dps will just be inferior. This is partially balanced by the fact that wizards are the best burst dps class, moreso at lower tiers than later, so encounters with really important burn phases are nice to have wizards on. On tier 6 man content is just not viable for a wizard until you are relatively high tier.
Having put 300+ days /played into maining a wizard, and progressing through all raid tiers and 6man content, the main problems I see with wizards are as follows:
Wizard sustained dps is weak until T9-10ish, especially on 6man content. On tier encounters just last way longer than our mana pool holds out and a lot of content has high resists.
Wizards rely more on a eternal/supreme charm, and tomes for dps than any other class. Because of ultimate/primal blasts, we get more benefit from crit% than any other class. With 8% crit on charm, 8% crit on tomes, another 8% damage to each element, and the smaller bonuses from various other tomes, wizards gain more than 35% dps from farming exp and platinum.
I think wizards are interesting and fun to play once you get a lot of cool gear and enough charm/tomes that you can be a top dps class, but there is a long time in wizard progression where you can have on tier gear/AA/etc with the rest of your guild, but your dps will just be inferior. This is partially balanced by the fact that wizards are the best burst dps class, moreso at lower tiers than later, so encounters with really important burn phases are nice to have wizards on. On tier 6 man content is just not viable for a wizard until you are relatively high tier.
harveydent
Dalayan Beginner
5 mana nukes are your friend. They may not put out the explosive numbers you want, but I regen mana on raids while casting them so I'm at least ALWAYS doing dps of some kind. Add to that, damage clickies, mana regen clickies and harvests, I find running completely dry on mana (on raids at least) hard to do. Now in 6 man groups I just blow the crap out of everything to where I have to med so I can go smoke a cigarette
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
Would be nice for a link to Formelo in your sig so people know who you are so they can have a frame of reference on things you say.5 mana nukes are your friend. They may not put out the explosive numbers you want, but I regen mana on raids while casting them so I'm at least ALWAYS doing dps of some kind. Add to that, damage clickies, mana regen clickies and harvests, I find running completely dry on mana (on raids at least) hard to do. Now in 6 man groups I just blow the crap out of everything to where I have to med so I can go smoke a cigarette