SoD 2.0 - Balance Topic II

Wiz

Wiz

NOT DONATING *EVER*
This thread is for posting items, quests, encounters or other things that have become unbalanced (either too powerful or too weak, too easy or too hard) due to the change in the raid model, no CH and the other changes.

This thread is NOT for stating your opinion on the changes or bitching about them.

Please only post from an informed standpoint - ie, "We just tried to kill arbiter of air and he's impossible because..." instead of "Arbiter of Air is totally going to be impossible now because the ouija board said so."

We will try to address unbalanced content within a day or two of it being posted so that we have a quick and painless transition.

Thanks! :)
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Changes since last topic:
- Lowered the mana cost on Complete Healing, Complete Recovery, Word of Completion and Word of Fufillment further.
- Lowered the melee damage done by surging mephits.
- Lowered the melee damage done by both Mirror Golems.
- Increased the hit points on Taeshlin the Guardian.
- Lowered the level of Taeshlin's meteor golems to 63 (to allow them to be mezzed for a longer time).
- Lowered the hit points on Manifestations in Outer Prison.
- Lowered the hit points and damage done by Fleshrotters.

Please note that these changes will not actually take place until next time server is patched.
 
It's not mentioned, but I noticed also a mana reduction on Relic: Circle of Eternity, which is no longer Raid heal, but group heal... Also, Relic: Light of Eternity, Relic: Althuna's Remedy have their mana costs reduced... all in all is making clerics enjoyable, aloowing us to hold mana in long fights bettre than before, thus regaining our "best option status" for a healer.

Also, not sure if this was intentional, but... imo, the Aux tanking system makes soloing harder for some clases. I as meleeing (as a cleric) earlier in HHK, and got my ass handed back by 3 guards, usually I was able to solo them quite easilly. This problem dissapeared as soon as I got an aux tank (my alter) reducing their dps... but still, the non aux tanked mobs were handing my ass back. Was this "handicap" for soloing intentional, or is a unforeseen (but unavoidable) side effect?

Note that, while I understand a cleric shouldn't be able to just step and tank, I also understand that some classes (as paladins) shouldn't have penalized their soloing.

Also, may be only my opinion, but, having a level 53 mob hitting you double for 400 (os backstabing you for 1600) is a bit excesive, considering the actual hp/ac of non twinked characters at those levels. Basically, your run-out-of-the-mill monk puller would die on a couple of those backstabs (mobs aren't aux tanked on pull), and an add on a wizard would mean insta death (again, adds are non-aux tanked) While I understand these are game's mechanics, and death happens, I also find excesive that ammount of damage, considering normal hp on a character that level. I mean, there're level 65 tanks with 4k hp(buffed). These mobs should be decent xp for them, without being almost unbeatable (they're 12 levels under them). And those tanks could be killed in 10 rounds, not counting kick/bash, or spells. Imo, a slightly modification of aux tank value on said mobs (HHK first floor) would be in order, since it'd make them still formidable opponents, without being THAT brutal for non equipped characters.
 
EW ringwar event for Sunbane

I think this event should be looked at. It has always been a small raid event (at least I haven't suceeded with less than 24 in the SoD 1.0).

There are 16 mobs in the last wave. Many of them AEing as well as probably having less CC, tanks and healers available, joint with resist changes could be a problem for an 18-man force.
Considering all mobs now do 1.1 - 1.5 x amount of their previous damage with no aux tanks would significantly increase their dps, especially combined with harder to resist AEs (I imagine). We were never able to completely mez 15 mobs down, we always offtanked some. That seemed the best option, since noone would risk using AE aggro and AE damage on this event and possibly ruin their faction with giants.
I'd suggest reducing the number of spawned mobs.

I imagine the last, Advisor kill, would now be easier than this event, which contradicts the progression of the quest difficulty.
 
Taeshlins Hit points is now about right. But the number of adds is too much, or time limit you have to kill the adds is not enough, with even archaic mez getting tons of resists, and relic mez draining mana way to fast, 2 well equipped enchanters could not keep them tacked down for the duration of the fight. Either the number of adds needs reduced, or the length you have to kill them needs increased, because we had about 30 seconds to damage taeshlin after the last add in the wave dying, to the next wave spawning. Either would probably work.

edit : Or you can lower their hps, that would work as well, I suppose, probably the easiest fix.

edited for clarity
 
volvov2 said:
Taeshlins Hit points is now about right.  But the number of adds is too much, or time limit you have to kill the adds is not enough, with even archaic mez getting tons of resists, and relic mez draining mana way to fast, 2 well equipped enchanters could not keep them tacked down for the duration of the fight.  Either the number of adds needs reduced, or the length you have to kill them needs increased, because we had about 30 seconds to damage taeshlin after the last add in the wave dying, to the next wave spawning. Either would probably work.

edit : Or you can lower their hps, that would work as well, I suppose, probably the easiest fix.

edited for clarity
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i'd also point out that you really shouldn't need archaic mez to do taeshlin, for obvious reasons
 
Just on the Taesh topic, while I hugely appreciate Ruin doing 'balancing' testing for Taesh, they're pretty well geared to and above Taesh, so idk quite how good it is to judge Taesh diff by their ease or diff of doing it. Of course, if this has been taken in to consideration, all is good. Perhaps I/we can get back to you with some feedback soon (I hope) ;)

Kinda along the same topic, using bards/necros to mez taesh adds, considering the soon-to-be-2-man-class-cap, is worth looking in to? ;)
 
The adds would be too resistant for bard, nec to effectively mez imo. I was using Archaic with 485 charisma and it was just not worth casting compared to relic cause of resists (same goes for the level 65 adds in thaz tower, archaic 30% resist rate = far too high). I think the on his adds should be lowered so they don't take so long and on a seperate note archaic mez should be given a look at cause it's proven a huge disappointment for me on raids (note: raids, its great for mezzing xp groups but that's not really what archaics are for...) so far.
 
Right, so considering the nature of the 18man raids, where 2 enchanters is... well, not always gonna happen - perhaps some tweaking to allow bards/necros to mez, at least somewhat, is a fair change.
 
Taeshlin did not *need* mezzing before, now with the raid cap cut down, there are not enough tanks to go around.
 
Monks, Bards and Rangers can all tank Taesh adds. Hell I bet Tryfaen could. Even if, for whatever reason, you don't have any of those classes, have your two (or whatever) tanks get them all. They aren't that tough.
 
Honestly, don't you think we tried that? There isnt enough DPS to go around and kill alll of them before the next wave shows up. Ruin might be able to beat it still, with a very good run, but given that we have beaten this encounter many times with the 36 cap, and the fact that it seems to be near impossible now says that other newer guilds wont even have a shot.
 
not to mention we were the ones who shouted for him to be drastically increased=p this is just saying Whoa! too much of an incrase
 
Mythryn said:
Monks, Bards and Rangers can all tank Taesh adds. Hell I bet Tryfaen could. Even if, for whatever reason, you don't have any of those classes, have your two (or whatever) tanks get them all. They aren't that tough.
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Duuurr.....

The issue isn't tanking them the issue is they take too long to kill now.

100% to 62% before first wave. (This is fine)
65% to 58% before 2nd wave. (This is not)
58% to wipe at 26% because we kept the 2nd wave fully mez'd, except 1 which we killed, cause they simply take too long to kill. Wipe was from inability of TWO chanters to keep them mezzed due to resists. We also BARELY avoided a 3rd wave even after concentrating on dps.
 
A lot of adds/trash are now the hard part of raiding, rather than named. It's the same all across the board - or at least, from DHK to OP. This seems clearly wrong. Heck, go to DHK. Tell me one of those big wyrm trash isn't harder, or as hard, as Yzair and all the named before it...

Adds and trash 'generally' need balancing quite significantly...

On a different topic:

Mobs that rampage are clearly out of whack, too. Or whirlwind, I guess.
Either the rampage dmg needs to go down 50%, or the # of ramp tanks 50% - in line with the halving of a raidforce, but no change to DPS of mobs.
 
Were the add's on a Shade of Misery looked at for the HP reduction? They seemed to have alot of hp, but since it's our first attempts I'm not totally sure.
 
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but why are all in-door zones flagged so that you can't pass into them with out-door buffs? since MOST raids are done in in-door zones that makes half of a druids buffs useless, and since no one ever exp's in out-door zones, druid buffs are useless in grouping for exp as well.

even if druids are meant to be useless except as a cleric when you already have two clerics in a raid, at least make it so we aren't useless in exp groups :)
 
I am sorry you have such a low opinion of druids that you think they are useless now. Or that you think half their buffs are outdoor only. Or that nobody xp's in outdoor zones. But really I am the most sorry for ever reading your post or replying to it.

Druid resist buffs castable indoors? Check
Ward of Nature and the entire Skin line castable indoors? Check
DS castable indoors? Check
Stat buffs castable indoors? Check

So what buffs exactly are you losing? SoW? Get run speed 3. The annoying ass doggie illusions that overwrite my perma illusion? Good riddance.
I am prolly missing a couple but whatever. It sure doesnt seem class breaking to me.

Calling druids useless because of this change is plain retarded. You may be a useless druid but that may not have been due to this change.
 
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