Simple TMaps

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Allielyn said:
I'm terribly disappointed that many high level fishers noticed a massive increase to fishing, were concerned about how large it was, and neglected to say anything about it to anybody.

The rate I see is dang near the 'find-an-exploit-and-cash-in' level as far as I'm concerned. Shame on every one of you who abused this.
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This is ridiculous. The fishers I have spoken with claim to make about 200 plat an hour between maps and fish. This is not good money.

Having 200 extra maps is not an indication of an exploit, it's an indication of a saturated market, which is precisely the reason that no amount of maps could possibly reach the 'find-an-exploit-and-cash-in' level. In fact, nothing that requires you to trade with another player can come to this level, only merchant-sellable items can.

Any fisher who has made money fishing has sunk days of playing time into skilling up, and days more to see returns from maps.

You call this a "massive increase to fishing", but it's the difference between hours and hours per map to hours per map, and anyone willing to invest this much time into something so boring is entitled to some kind of return. Compare the playtimes of wealthy fishers to high-end raiders and you'll probably find a lot of very similar times.

The only reason the market is so saturated with maps is because Wiz underestimated how many people would fish.
 
Treasure maps were never ever meant to be the bread and butter of fishing - they were the "oooh nice surprise" part of fishing. Yes, fishing gets a return, and it is supposed to be primarily in um, well, FISH. And even without the tmaps it's a nice reward for a tskill that can be done while almost completely AFK.

Wiz gave fishing "a lil' bump" that ended up QUADRUPLING the tmap fishup rate (or more) and you don't see that as an 'unintentional exploitable bug'?
 
I don't believe the rate was actually quadrupled, and I don't believe the gains versus the investment time is anywhere close to being considered an exploit.
 
I know our fishermen at least had excessive maps before any bump... they've been storing them on alts for months. I haven't fished on my fisherman in months, so no idea what the rate change was. I *do* remember when it was cut down, then they said it was "fixed", nothing was ever mentioned about it going sky high, exploits, etc.
 
Allielyn said:
Wiz gave fishing "a lil' bump" that ended up QUADRUPLING the tmap fishup rate (or more) and you don't see that as an 'unintentional exploitable bug'?
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Not at all considering there's almost no profit to be made off it unless you do the maps yourself. The prices have dropped so badly that they just don't sell for more than you could make by doing them. And of course, most fishers don't bother with that.

Is it really an exploit if it doesn't benefit you in any way whatsoever? Frankly it's hurting fishers more than it's helping and even nerfing the drop rate wouldn't help since so many people have stockpiles. It'd take months to wear those stockpiles down and get tmap prices back to where they're worth something. Frankly I like the idea of being able to vendor maps. God knows I'm sick of duoing VEs and Es with Jax for minimal profit because we can't get rid of them otherwise.
 
Allielyn said:
Treasure maps were never ever meant to be the bread and butter of fishing - they were the "oooh nice surprise" part of fishing. Yes, fishing gets a return, and it is supposed to be primarily in um, well, FISH.
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what the hell? show me one person EVER who spent many many hours fishing because they wanted an inventory full of fish that don't even vendor for gold until 230+ skill
 
Seems that map rates were reduced sometime last night. This is based on about 3 trips of 600 bait since last night. Rates are just about what they were a few months ago (the mistakenly nerfed level I believe).

Just for reference I fish at least 3-4 hours a day, so one would notice such a difference... but will check back after a few days (and probably 5000+ more bait).

Personally I would rather see a flooded market, and see people do the tmaps... with excess that doesn't sell, it is much more profitable to just box some maps or even find a group if you really want to do D or VD's.
 
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Ikaa|LoveYums said:
Just no. There ARE reasons we implement things, like BoE, and platsinks; letting tmaps slide "just because" and leaving the market saturated with maps rotting on bank toons would make no sense.
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You're absolutely right about all of this. My only concern is that the reasons for change are analyzed.

There is a difference between changing something because of a mistake, and changing someone because the developers' expectations were somehow exceeded. In this case, fishing may very well have a fine rate of map drops and it may just be that the server was not meant to handle 40 active fishermen.

Zone drops can be tuned to a very clear maximum; if emberflow or highkeep is farmed 100% of the time and every named is killed as soon as it spawns, you can calculate the potential availability of an item. In addition with controls on merchant pricing, you can calculate the potential for plat production on the server.

Tradeskills are trickier. You have to tune the reward with the tediousness of the skill and hope that your experience and predictive powers work out.

If the goal is to reduce the number of maps available on the market, consider alternatives to simply nerfing the fishup rate. It could be anything from putting a vendor price on maps so that the plat drop from fishing can be calculated in the same way that a zone's drops can be to adding a special npc that will accept a certain number of lower maps in exchange for a higher difficulty map. Just be creative.

This game is not designed to have any easy avenues of progression, and fishing is not creating a problem. It's only the number of available maps is a problem. Don't let your fix hurt the people who have spent hundreds of hours to max a tedious and boring skill in their downtime.
 
In this case, fishing may very well have a fine rate of map drops and it may just be that the server was not meant to handle 40 active fishermen.
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I think this is more the case. I stated we have 3 250 fisherman.... for quite a while, we had one, and we did basically every map he fished. Now, with 3, we go by whoever is online/sent to guildbank already. Hence why we have a surplus.
 
Ykari said:
Not at all considering there's almost no profit to be made off it unless you do the maps yourself. The prices have dropped so badly that they just don't sell for more than you could make by doing them. And of course, most fishers don't bother with that.
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This is because the rate was too high, flooding the market. If the rate wasn't so high, the market wouldn't be so flooded, and the maps would be worth more. GENIUS!

I'm no tradeskiller, mind you, but it doesn't seem to me that fishing should be any more profitable than, say, brewing and baking, considering how little it requires other than mindlessly tapping one button for hours.
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You are right, and I'd even say it should be less so: because fishing can be done while watching TV with one quarter of an eye out for tells and passcolor messages.

There is a difference between changing something because of a mistake, and changing someone because the developers' expectations were somehow exceeded. In this case, fishing may very well have a fine rate of map drops and it may just be that the server was not meant to handle 40 active fishermen.
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You are mistakenly divorcing the # of fisherman active from the rate of tmap return. When XXX in-game becomes valuable enough to do it over YYY, then you will see an increase of the number of people doing XXX.

Anyhow, with the lowered rates of return combined with the ability to vendor tmaps, the market should restabilize itself on tmaps shortly. Hooray for economics!
 
Wouldn't just adding a vendor price solve the problem by itself? The reduction on map rates would only hurt fishers who have spent time skilling up. If there is a surplus why does the correspond to automatic reduction in rate of drop xyz? Instead people would just vendor the maps if there were too many maps selling for too low of a profit margin, leading to the same result.

The increased vendor pricing on many drops from dungeons worked to take many items out of circulation. Drop rates for various items were not universally decreased to reduce the number on the market, but rather BOE and vendor prices together helped to reduce supply. I don't see why this solution alone wouldn't apply for tmaps.
 
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The problem isnt a surplus, so everyone stop imagining that thats all there is, and bringing it up as a point of debate.

The problem is that there is a surplus created by AN ERROR IN DROP RATE, which has been corrected to WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN, and not an arbitrary nerf to satisfy our plans in completely ruining the economy/fishing/whatever.
 
Because the fishing rate of return for tmaps for the past few months has been so high as to unbalance the tradeskill's natural balance of risk (and work) to return. Theoretically if this had not been the case, you wouldn't even need vendor pricing on tmaps.
 
So I am to understand that the rate a few days ago was set in error, even though wiz had said the following when he put it back at the previous (the way it has always been before last spring) level?

Wiz said:
This was an unintentional change, I'm fixing it.
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In any case, are the map rates at the "unintentional change" level again? Below? Above?
 
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