Simple tmaps gone?

Manguadi

Manguadi

Dalayan Beginner
When was the last time someone saw one drop? I've been hunting with some friends in dungeons from level 20ish to level 50ish and have yet to see one. I've been in yaralith, miel A, miel B, paw, and lasanth during this time.
 
yaralith, miel A, miel B, paw, and lasanth

never seen a map in yar, paw or miela and have cleared those from top to bottom many many times
gotten a few in Lasa tho
think spent from 45 to 57 and some AA's in miel B, and only got 1 map to drop, think it came off one of the chanter near the warlord
 
One dropped for us in Yaralith on tuesday, was quite a surprise. I think they could stand an increase in drop rate, as you rarely see anyone below level 50 using them.
 
I've killed 6300+ creatures and I've seen only about 5 maps drop in that entire time.

He's 57 and 3 of those maps were in groups in Elds or Crystal Caverns. (Easy & Very Easy).

Only 2 simple maps... EVER. That amazes me.
 
Seems kind of weird. I had thought they had been changed to nodrop b/c ppl were gouging for them. Now the only one i've seen since then, was not dropped, but fished, and was at an even higher price than they were being sold at before, far higher than people in the tiers to do them that are not twinks would be able to afford. Kind of removing the point of them entirely.
 
vistachiri said:
Seems kind of weird. I had thought they had been changed to nodrop b/c ppl were gouging for them. Now the only one i've seen since then, was not dropped, but fished, and was at an even higher price than they were being sold at before, far higher than people in the tiers to do them that are not twinks would be able to afford. Kind of removing the point of them entirely.
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I totally agree on that. Someone complained about lowbie being shafted and proposed an absurd complicated solution. The only thing that happened is that some of the simple TMaps arent droppable anymore. The drop rate was low enough already, now it's hyper rare.

Back to the topic: I have seen 2 drop in paw back to back, and 1 in Yaralith. Never seen any drop in Miel A.
 
unless they are coded not to drop when conning green, if they drop in Miel A. the drop rate has to be 1 in 1000
 
The nodrop Simple maps drop in paw very very very rarely, (ie seen 2 in prolly 200 clears of paw) from green mobs. All I see them being nodrop is fishing map prices will just go through the roof pricewise.
 
The characters who will use simple tmaps will not have the means to purchase high demand items. So instead of low supply meaning high demand, the demand drops off too. The best way for low level characters to get maps is to get them themselves. Maps are a fabulous way to instruct and solidify non-max level guilds. They also provide a stronger draw than a group in a faraway dungeon, so soloers might be encouraged to tag along, which can help to form networks of lowbies outside of Dalaya's Beginners.
If the reward for simple tmaps is great enough that the drop rate has to be reduced, then just reduce the reward. There are too many benefits, not least of all how much fun they are, to neglect them in this way.
 
Kelval said:
I totally agree on that. Someone complained about lowbie being shafted and proposed an absurd complicated solution.
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Please read my absurd complicated proposal here...

http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forum/index.php?topic=13001.0

The fact is, the people who simple maps were intended for are not getting them. Higher tier maps are all over the place. The map progression just plain sucks. It's no wonder that there's been many times I've been in a tmap group in the 50's and even 60's with people who have never done one.
 
kukov said:
Please read my absurd complicated proposal here...

http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forum/index.php?topic=13001.0

The fact is, the people who simple maps were intended for are not getting them. Higher tier maps are all over the place. The map progression just plain sucks. It's no wonder that there's been many times I've been in a tmap group in the 50's and even 60's with people who have never done one.
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Yes, complicated, or irrealistic if you prefer, as it involved creating new items(1 kind of TMap for each lvl range), and then changing the loot tables for all the 20-60 zones to match with it. With what the staff has on the table for monthes now, it was a total dream. And actually the answer from Wiz was:
wiz said:
Splitting the items up and going through every loot table that contains simple tmaps and assigning them the right tier would be a monumental effort.

A much simpler solution would be to remove the sealed simple maps, and just have mobs drop NO DROP simple maps, since who is the digger isn't as critical anymore with the 10 second pause. Fishers can still sell bottled simple maps, too.
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In the end, did anyone get anything better? I doubt that.

Don't get me wrong, you have tried, and the base idea was pretty altruistic.
The answer wasn't what was expected. And the result is now that the rarity has boosted through the roof, with only fished TMaps available. Since TMaps don't drop at a better rate in lower dungeons (read: nearly never drop anyways), and are only sold by fishers, I fail to see how the lowbies have it any better.

Now I have the feeling you are on a defensive mode. I am not trying to bash on you. I am not even saying you were wrong to open the pandora box: you made a suggestion, and it didn't go the way you expected. But I'll keep my word: your proposed solution was irrealistically complicated.

PS: you don't need to link me that thread, I remember it pretty well as I had posted there as well stating the simple TMap drop rate was crazy low... ;)
 
Yes, complicated, or irrealistic if you prefer, as it involved creating new items(1 kind of TMap for each lvl range), and then changing the loot tables for all the 20-60 zones to match with it. With what the staff has on the table for monthes now, it was a total dream. And actually the answer from Wiz was:In the end, did anyone get anything better? I doubt that.
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I just thought that all tiers in the game should maybe have the same attention. Was just trying to point out what i thought was a flaw in the progression of maps.

I agree with you that the "fix" is no good. Sure my idea would involve a lot of work, but unfortunately, if someone really wants to fix something, sometimes it takes a lot of work. I offered my help back then. These days I don't have the time. :-/
 
Well there were a few symptoms of the problem as I saw it personally. Those being:

A) Simple maps were being sold for prices the 20's, 30's etc tier people wouldn't really be able to afford. Standard price was about 75-100pp each. Not too bad as the recoup rate on 30's is about 30pp 40's and 50's is slightly higher, and pretty much why they were running at that as well.

B) The prevalence of them was possibly adding to concerns about the market for droppable gear and tradeskilled gear (to a lesser extent in some cases).

C) Droprate seemed lower than for ve e maps tbh.

I don't think the fix really helped things at all personally. As it is now, go ahead, try and find a map 20-59. I bought the only one actually on the market the other day. For 200pp. Now as the situation stands, because so few people fish (as it is boredom supreme, not sure about the fishing droprate, but I'm assuming it's dismal, always has been with fishing), and they are so rare (paw clear with imeriaz, not one, 2 hours in cc, not one, etc), the price for them has inflated so much due to demand that while lowbies could have just pooled their $ before and gotten one with a decent return on their plat, or could have actually gotten one in the course of a group, the chance of them doing so now is pretty much null. Any of the ones getting done were probably due to the direct intervention of twinks. Seems like the previous situation was alot better tbh.
 
Agreed, simple maps should jsut be turned back to what they were before (droppable) the no drop didn't fix anything and in fact made it worse for the very people it was suppose to help.
 
Imho as long as simple tmaps can be used by players level 50+ it's not very likely that a lower level player is going to out-bid them when one comes on the market, or use it right away instead of saving it for after they hit level 50. Kirin's suggestion might not be doable with the staffs' resources, but I don't see any other suggestion that would result in more low level tmap groups.

Iaeolan brings up a good point in that other thread.
iaeolan said:
Adepts were brought up as a correlation of lower level usage as to maps, specifically 1-30. It may not be an issue of making money or not having the money to do tmaps, but rather lack of knowledge of them and lack of how to do them, as well as lack of means to get wherever the map is.
Pointed out earlier, it is usually only a person on a twink organizing lower tier tmap groups. Ask yourself if this is because of money or because of knowledge.
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In addition to people not knowing about tmaps/adepts/ect, there is already a pretty good content/time spent ratio for lower levels. I know I didn't see/do even close to everything that is available pre-50 simply because I leveled out of range of a lot of content too quickly.
 
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