Shortstaff of the Cold

[Nodnal]

This item from PoFire seems to be a little unbalanced. It has insane stats for the tier, and the ratio is quite good at 15/19, even before the 6 cold damage it has on it. How exactly does elemental damage work? I have heard varying things, and parsing it without knowing how the resist checks work would be a pain. This weapon seems to be an 18/19 most of the time and sometimes a 19/19-21/19 in zones where mobs have low cold resists. The proc is an extremely good debuff that actually resists the mobs cold resist, ac and attack, making the weapon do even more dps.

The weapon seems to be upper ToT quality, and I think it should be looked at and rebalanced (mostly lower the cold damage by 4 or so or adjust the base ratio).


P.S. It should probably be coded as 1hb instead of 1hs.

 

[Cyzaine]

All pofire items may or may not already be in the middle of a comprehensive item review, that may or may not be coming in conjunction with a revamp of the latter half of the zone, that may or may not be due for release in the very near future.

 

[meyers]

A 15/19 ratio weapon from a tier 7 mob is not good, especially considering that Silver, a mob that can be two-grouped by people of the same tier, drops Bone Sabre which is 15/18.

You can also add Swirling Staff of the Scale to Zaela's list of weapons with good elemental damage. Both mentioned so far would, in perfect conditions, evaluate to a ratio of 1 and both come from encounters that are easier (and in this case, much easier) than the one in question.

I will not argue either way that the proc/elemental damage are overpowered. Only someone with access to the resist formulas and statistics about average mob resists can truly determine what its average ratio would be. I will say that I think the idea of a weapon that procs a debuff that improves its elemental damage's ability to land. It is a clever and uncommon way to have a proc improve dps rather than the done-to-death dd proc.

All pofire items may or may not already be in the middle of a comprehensive item review, that may or may not be coming in conjunction with a revamp of the latter half of the zone, that may or may not be due for release in the very near future.

I hope that this was not prompted by negative remarks in the raid respawn thread. It'd be a shame to revamp content that nearly nobody has seen just because someone (that likely has not even been to the zone) thinks it needs to be a higher tier. I would agree that some of the loot may need to be adjusted, but I think changes based on input from people that have actually been through the content would be more valuable than revamping everything just because a couple of people would like more higher end targets. Maybe a new thread is in order?

 

[Nodnal]

Not that I like overpowered weapons, but just to get the obvious precedent out of the way: Incorporeal Arachnid Limb.

No time for me to comment in more depth at the moment!

Magic damage and cold damage are two different beasts. The weapon in question would be way worse if it had magic damage instead. Even still, the base ratio is balanced enough on the limb that the 6 magic damage is fine.

Thanks for the info, Zak.

 

[Cyzaine]

Last I'll comment about the topic:

Tier will not be changing
90% of the encounters will not be changing (Save Ymir he's going back towards beta version)
and The changes are not due to the 'other' thread gripes

The latter half, has serious pacing issues (I raided it as a player, and am VERY aware of them) that need to be addressed, and overall the items needed tuning (alot more aware of tiers and where things should be than I was when I first started as a dev).

Overall Pofire is my freshman effort, and I'd never dream of revamping it in its entirety. Some of the encounters I may never be able to top (<3 Raigol and Raizol && Taymullah!). However the game is living and I feel improvements can be made that will really help the zone, and that won't take away much time from my priorities (Aug Quests and Ikisith).

 

[vistachiri]

Last I'll comment about the topic:

Tier will not be changing
90% of the encounters will not be changing (Save Ymir he's going back towards beta version)
and The changes are not due to the 'other' thread gripes

The latter half, has serious pacing issues (I raided it as a player, and am VERY aware of them) that need to be addressed, and overall the items needed tuning (alot more aware of tiers and where things should be than I was when I first started as a dev).

Overall Pofire is my freshman effort, and I'd never dream of revamping it in its entirety. Some of the encounters I may never be able to top (<3 Raigol and Raizol && Taymullah!). However the game is living and I feel improvements can be made that will really help the zone, and that won't take away much time from my priorities (Aug Quests and Ikisith).

I've heard good things. I only saw a few of your loots that were offbalance. The old robe made me wish you designed items for my tier.

 

[stope21]

From a former ranger:
Swirling staff of the scale
Arachnid Limb
Shortstaff of the cold

All are insane.

I remember thinking the staff is the best monk 1her in the game, the arachnid limb is the best ranger 1her in the game. And now this, which is even better.

The only comparable 1her i saw to the monk staff was fist of solid ice (and now searfist)

This item is FAR overteired.

The fact that it could ever be a 18/19, 19/19 20/19 or EVEN a 21/19 is ludacris. The best ratio 1hers in game are: 18/20 (fomelo: felyn/allielyn/llanoldar), 15/16 (fomelo felyn) and 18/19 (fomelo otus). This item kicks the everliving shit out of them in ratio.


This item is basically 2-3 teirs above the zone that drops it. It's basically the degree in advancement over any known item that sanctum items should be over every other item.

Other weapon notes (and after much parsing) searfist needs to be pumped up as its not where it should be in terms of dps against Spiked Obsidian. Fire imbued cudgel is far over nerfed.

 

[meyers]

I remember thinking the staff is the best monk 1her in the game, the arachnid limb is the best ranger 1her in the game. And now this, which is even better.

Do you have any parses that back any of this up? I'm not trying to knock you, I'm just assuming that item designers who (should) have information/statistics about this sort of thing know better. Also, in the case of every item you mentioned, the base ratio, which is unresistable, is much much better.

 

[Allielyn]

Also add Fjorleif to the list!

 

[Worelan]

Overall Pofire is my freshman effort

I have not raided but I did do some running around on my monk (whole place) and it looks awesome. The story line is cool, the 2 gazebo named are cool, and overall, the layout is pretty sweet (mob placement, and named abilities)

If we're talking about this, then what about the Knuckles of Faith, couldn't we argue that an item off a Tier1? named has a sick ratio too? Seeing how its 1.0 (to undead obv) that is unresistable. Maybe, the elemental dmg on the staff should be decreased a tad though as it is > than a 1.0 from a much lower tier than the items Stope mentioned. /shrug

 

[Bonk84]

Honestly the knuckles can't even be considered due to how situational they are throughout the tiers. Since they only work on undead, there is a very limited amount of encounters to consider them useful for. The other items in question all have elemental damage attached, so they would add in to every hit on every mob not immune to that damage type.

Also, isn't bane damage different than elemental damage? Bane damage can't be resisted, where as elemental damage can be?

 

[Ponden]

Most of the items listed in this thread with really good elemental damage ratios were created before there was a elemental damage modifier. (TM?) or someone, mentioned that there is now a negative resist mod on elemental damage from weapons.

I have done some parses with Fjorlief and as long as the mob doesn't have significant CR resists, then it parses equivalent to screamtsrike. (there was also a noticeable increase in dps just from malo doll 2-3 dps)

The old system of comparison was half the magical damage. Which makes all the weapons mentioned in this thread balanced for their tier. (as in, 10dmg +6 MR would be comparable to 13 normal dmg.)

I do not think the resist mod is huge. It's probably only -20 (my guess.) But it seems to be enough, to throw off these old item's balance.

IMO -- Rebalance them all or remove the negative resist mod.

Also- please rebalance knuckles of faith -- or put back Mrript's 15/15 1hs no rent sword

 

[Dinadass]

(there was also a noticeable increase in dps just from malo doll 2-3 dps)
(

Uhhh.... 2-3 DPS is far far from "noticeable" and without many hours of continuous combat parses could very likely be within the margin of error due to a string of misses, crits, whatever.

 

[Nodnal]

Uhhh.... 2-3 DPS is far far from "noticeable" and without many hours of continuous combat parses could very likely be within the margin of error due to a string of misses, crits, whatever.

Re-read what you just quoted. He said it was a 2-3 DPS increase from malo doll, not comparing the weapons. The problem is, the way elemental damage was changed to made these weapons very good. Also, the problem with leaving overpowered items in lower tiers is that people will never be replacing the items until they get into very high tiers, and sometimes never.

 

[stope21]

Re-read what you just quoted. He said it was a 2-3 DPS increase from malo doll, not comparing the weapons. The problem is, the way elemental damage was changed to made these weapons very good. Also, the problem with leaving overpowered items in lower tiers is that people will never be replacing the items until they get into very high tiers, and sometimes never.

And the fact that higher teir guilds will go in and kill the lower teir stuff until they get the items (WHICH WE ALL KNOW HOW MUCH BITCHING IS DONE HERE).

And the fact that it enables lower teir guilds to progress through the teirs easier b/c they have overpowered weapons.

 

[Ponden]

Weapons were always wielded in offhand on the exact same "a clay golem" (meaning no melee crits) - primary hand was empty and punching h2h. Auto attack only, from behind.

Empower was the only buff.

The proc damage as a % of total damage is slightly inflated for most situations because of no -melee crits. Specifically look at melee damage.

Screamstrike: (ran for 1 hour, 30 mins.)
punch = 16.41
crush = 73.67
dd proc = 0.60

Fjorlief: (1 hour)
punch = 16.23
Slash = 75.47
dd proc = 3

Fjorlief (w/malise applied) (1 hour)
punch = 16.232
Slash = 76.43
dd proc = 4

Obsideon Shanker: (1 hour)
punch = 16.40
pierce = 74.92
dd proc = 2.04

 

[Eustace]

You're forgetting Plaguebringer, too. No cool wiki link exists for it, so you'll have to fomelo me to view it.

 

[metvayne1]

And the fact that it enables lower teir guilds to progress through the teirs easier b/c they have overpowered weapons.

I highly disagree with this statement. The magnitude of impact a slightly overpowered weapon equipped by a melee dps/tank class on progression really is minimal. Besides, every zone will have its good (or in turn, more saught after) drops and bad drops, it just so happens one of those drops in Plane of Fire is a weapon. It is not game breaking.

If you want to see helping guilds progress easier through the tiers:

Up the relic drop rate
Up the drop rate of rares that are huge (Elder Dragon Hide Tunic, Seraphic Voice, big tank drops, etc)

 

[vistachiri]

Even with a fair understanding of how elemental damage goes (dunno if I'm allowed to spill what I've learned through my GM parses--sorry!) it's hard to say when it would be balanced and when it would be unbalanced, considering that it will always be at least a little situational.

That said, I'm surprised just how much elemental damage goes through on OP/IP-level red-con trash mobs with fairly average resists (about a considerable (6) going by bard jayla's) and even fairly generally resistant mobs (fairly high into the potent (8) range) before they are resist debuffed--let alone after. I might take a closer look at these big elemental damage weapons if the other devs agree with me that they seem a little too good.

If the resist mod is as intense as I've heard I'm not particularly surprised. 50 is pretty high. Relic storm and mage archaic for instance are 50 and 25 respectively.

 

[Budizzle]

Thread necromancy.

This weapon was nerfed a while back. Its current status:

Longstaff of the Cold
[MAGIC ITEM] [LORE ITEM] [NO DROP]
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: 1H Blunt Atk Delay: 19
DMG: 12
Cold DMG: 4
Effect: Deathly Chill (Combat, Instant)
STR: +20 AGI: +20 DEX: +20 HP: +100 MANA: +100
Weight: 2.0 Size: Medium
Class: WAR RNG MNK BST
Race: ALL

I will agree that it was fairly overpowered before, but this is a prime example of excessively rash action. A 12/19 (~.63) pure ratio off a tier 7 mob is not really acceptable, regardless of how situational it's intended to be. Even if the cold modifier affected a reasonably significant amount of hits on a debuffed mob -- which it does not -- the ratio still would not be balanced with how difficult it is to obtain this weapon. I love the encounter... I love PoFire in general, but this weapon is fucked.

My suggestion:

Longstaff of the Cold
[MAGIC ITEM] [LORE ITEM] [NO DROP]
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: 1H Blunt Atk Delay: 19
DMG: 15/16
Cold DMG: 2/1
Effect: Deathly Chill (Combat, Instant)
STR: +15 AGI: +15 DEX: +15 HP: +100 MANA: +100
Weight: 2.0 Size: Medium
Class: WAR RNG MNK BST
Race: ALL