Shaman healing role

Thinkmeats said:
You're doing 333-500 sustained dps? That's quite a lot.
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At least 298 dps without crits. The 3k a tick is very rare for me, like I said, so I don't reach 500 dps much.
 
ElPapaPollo said:
At least 298 dps without crits. The 3k a tick is very rare for me, like I said, so I don't reach 500 dps much.
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400 AA rogues with IP/thaz loot parse at about 325 against weak-ish trash, so you can understand my surprise. How long can you sustain that?
 
Since we're already waaaay off topic here...

1) It'll take you 3 ticks to get all 3 dots on. Both poison-based dots (the two that make up about 75% of the DPS) wear off in 4 ticks.

2) The casting times for those DoTs is long enough that if you interrupt your chain casting of DoTs long enough to throw a patch heal, a buff, a slow, or a debuff, you will lose a tick. I suspect you can fit a Canni IV in between if you time it well, and a Canni V would be no problem, if you had to get a sotb in there, again, you'd lose a tick of DPS.

3) I have sigs turned off so I can't check your fomelo to see your gear and whatnot, but I doubt you're all that much better off than Hasrett in terms of mana regen and mana pool, which leads me to conclude that you're going to drain your mana pretty quick doing that. Not exactly viable.

4) I highly doubt you've done 3k per tick more than a couple of ticks EVER, given how fast the poison dots wear off and the fact that you'd need both of them to crit the same tick. You're therefore full of it when you say that a shaman does 2k-3k per tick with DoTs alone, just as you'd be full of it if you said that wizzies do 25k per nuke.

Your overall point that shamans can put out some DPS with their DoTs is absolutely correct, but there's no need to shit up the thread (even more than it was already shat) with huge exaggerations. Realistically, we're looking at an average of about 250-300 DPS MAX with those three dots going plus pet and melee, given A) time to land all of the dots; B) resists; C) need to Canni and sotb; and D) crits.

Edit: And that's still burning the crap out of your mana. And yes, even a 305 cha shaman with maxed specializations gets resists, EVEN on trash mobs that have no particular resistance to poison or disease, so don't go there.
 
Thinkmeats said:
400 AA rogues with IP/thaz loot parse at about 325 against weak-ish trash, so you can understand my surprise. How long can you sustain that?
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Mana costs are Relic: Scourge of Life: 500 mana, Caress of Sivyana: 505 mana, and Black Plague: 520 mana. I have Spell Casting Mastery 3 (around 5-6% mana con iirc) and mana con 7 from shoulders. So, that's ~12% mana con. When stacking these three dots, I do them altogether. Once I'm done, I have to recast Relic and then Caress again. Once Relic fades again, Black Plague will, so I redo Relic, Caress (which fades after Relic cast), and then Black Plague. So that's 2 set's of three casts: A. Relic, Caress, and Black Plague and B. Relic and Caress. With the 12% mana con, that is (500+505+520)x3 + (500+505)x3 = 6679 mana spent, leaving me with 487 mana (from 7166 total mana); I'm not going to take into account any effect FT may have. Assuming no resists and no crits, total damage is (748+677) x 4ticks x 6casts + 366 x 9ticks x 3casts = 44,082 (298 dps). So I can sustain this dps for the duration of these casts.
 
You're off in the total number of ticks there. Gotta add the three ticks it takes to land the spells, plus potentially any lost ticks of a given DoT if you don't time the recasts right. Plus, any resist means a complete skewing of the timing, which will in turn spread out your DPS over an additional tick or more, further reducing the DPS.

Your assumption that everything is instant and goes perfectly is like a rogue assuming he hits every time with his BS. I highly recommend you try parsing it a few dozen times and seeing what kind of numbers you really come up with.
 
Hasrett said:
4) I highly doubt you've done 3k per tick more than a couple of ticks EVER, given how fast the poison dots wear off and the fact that you'd need both of them to crit the same tick. You're therefore full of it when you say that a shaman does 2k-3k per tick with DoTs alone, just as you'd be full of it if you said that wizzies do 25k per nuke.
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What part of the words AVERAGE and RANGE are hard to understand? In addition, what about the part where I said the 3k is VERY RARE for me.
 
Hasrett said:
You're off in the total number of ticks there. Gotta add the three ticks it takes to land the spells, plus potentially any lost ticks of a given DoT if you don't time the recasts right. Plus, any resist means a complete skewing of the timing, which will in turn spread out your DPS over an additional tick or more, further reducing the DPS.

Your assumption that everything is instant and goes perfectly is like a rogue assuming he hits every time with his BS. I highly recommend you try parsing it a few dozen times and seeing what kind of numbers you really come up with.
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I was calculating mana spent and total damage done, not time. So, those extra ticks don't count in that sense.

Edit: I'm sure I don't sustain perfect 298 dps, but 250 is not too arguable.
 
Nonetheless, let's just drop this. Thinkmeats first asked about the dps aspect, and so I jumped to quick number crunching that is probably flawed. I don't want to get into an argument with you over this, Hasrett; it's pointless and you're a nice guy.
 
Fair enough :psyduck:

One thing I'm not good at is being the bigger man and saying let's move on, so thank you for that.

<3
 
Thinkmeats said:
400 AA rogues with IP/thaz loot parse at about 325 against weak-ish trash, so you can understand my surprise. How long can you sustain that?
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If you're referring to my extensive parses, keep in mind I did not bother to parse Max dps - a number of high atk buffs including savagery, giantkin, clicky atk rings, cotp, and blademaster were not used in those parses. I was looking at comparative dps - so long as they all had the same buffs, (and the same lack of buffs) then that was what was important.
 
Allielyn said:
If you're referring to my extensive parses, keep in mind I did not bother to parse Max dps - a number of high atk buffs including savagery, giantkin, clicky atk rings, cotp, and blademaster were not used in those parses. I was looking at comparative dps - so long as they all had the same buffs, (and the same lack of buffs) then that was what was important.
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Oh, i didn't know you didn't use cotp/blademaster. Giantkin is enc dps and can't be credited to rogues. Savegry is a sort of gray area, im not sure whether to count it as bst dps or as part of rogue. At any rate, it's a side topic, and thanks for the clarification.
 
Thinkmeats said:
None of that has anything to do with what we're talking about, though. Unless there's an evil space wizard causing all the dust-collecting former-main shaman guild bots to appear, shamans clearly have some gameplay issues (NOT balance issues)--you should never really be required to bash the same spell over and over. See: necro manafeed, bard melody. That's not to mention the half-dozen or so other things brought up in this thread.

So no, that brief of a dismissal doesn't really address anything beyond the structure of the thread itself. That is, an unofficial discussion thread that's been muddied up by drive-bys. After all, you can't really expect a two-sentence post to easily refute a 650 word proposal. This thread got pretty chaotic; add to that a good amount of bleedthrough from the healing sleep thread and some irrelevant talk about bard songs and buff slots, and I don't really see much productive coming from this anymore.

If there's ever another thread made about this, I'll make it for my own proposal with all the information right in the first post for people too lazy to read the thread. Before that would happen, I'd get ahold of most of the active raid shammies and chat with them about it. Before that would happen, I'd have to have more free time than I do. So it'll be a while.
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QFTW!

*cough* Healing Pet *cough cough*
 
I did use cotp on the ranger parse; counting it as "ranger" dps - in retrospect perhaps I shouldn't have, but there's little that can be done about that now. Blademaster likewise could be counted as "bard" dps, savagery as "beastlord" dps,

But to be honest, the reason I didn't incorporate any of those is not because I cared what portin of the dps really "belonged" to what class, but that that I wanted to be able to do long term parses without worrying about buffs fading. I wasn't as interested in max #s as I was in comparability anyhow, so it was no big deal.
 
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