Riposte changes and Proc Rates

D

DernipDaGnome

Dalayan Adventurer
Heya Devs,

Are you folks taking special requests for changes in proc rates for weapons? I personally saw a huge drop in DPS that I do miss dearly. I'm not a T12 tank w/ spirit harvest and I'm trying to work my way up. I do love my Adversity, unfortunately though, the single target riposte mechanism put in place has cut the effectiveness of this weapon significantly.

Is it possible to see an increase in proc rate to compensate for this?

As a related aside, in a couple of other threads I proposed keeping the riposte proc target numbers in line with pbaoe (6 targets max) to be in line with other AoE mechanics.

Thank you for reading.

Olaw
 
Hmmm, yeah to add to this list... Galeforce off of Animation.

Does riposte no longer proccing weapons apply to every class or just warriors? Cause if it's all of them, then Brainsucker, Hand of Delusions, and Spear of the Szithri.

<<< Fail beastlord who likes to zerg way too many mobs, ends up tanking a few...
 
daenar_sod said:
Hmmm, yeah to add to this list... Galeforce off of Animation.
Click to expand...

I'm no melee expert, but given that the weapon is Slot: SECONDARY only, doesn't that mean it never qualified for ripostes in the first place? :psyduck:

daenar_sod said:
Does riposte no longer proccing weapons apply to every class or just warriors?
Click to expand...

Riposte can trigger procs once again as of two days ago (see the patch notes), though only against the meleeing character's current target. As far as I can tell, the change has been universal all along and not confined to Warriors. They have simply been put center stage because the ever-popular Spirit-Harvest seems to have been the main culprit that lead to this change.
 
Seems like Galeforce could be made primary and secondary, I actually had never noticed that it wasn't.
 
Really they should just double the chance of every proc on non healer weapons (so everything else). I can't see what that would cause problems with now that you can only riposte your main target.
 
double proc rates would be a gross increase of dps, that while may be enjoyed by folks, would probably be a gross imbalance of where their dps *should* be. I highly doubt most weapons were proccing off ripostes enough to warrant such an increase (excluding spirit harvest, obv)
 
Well weapons no longer proccing from ripostes minus the main target effects every weapon with a proc. Should just raise proc chances across the board as a result, although doubling them is obviously way too much.
 
yea but it would be awesome

edit: limiting the amount of targets you can hit with your riposte procs to five would be cool too
 
As I said, using the pbaoe limiting mechanics would put us on par with other classes. Would be nice. These riposte changes were brutal, at least for me, so any rebalancing would be much appreciated.
 
I would say a 5-10% increase in proc rates across the board, and limit ripostes to 4 or 6 mobs would be about right if not a bit of a buff. That is if any change is waranted.
 
I haven't been paying attention in a long time so pardon this unofficial incredulity post (also my head is swimming from a cold and i can't find anything else to do with myself):

tank dps as something that anyone would ever care about (you're not there for your dps)

riposte as the presumptive primary source of procs so much so that proc rates ought to be balanced around it rather than attacking properly with delay and such

procs as a significant source of dps in non-abusive situations (except on niche weapons that trade shitty ratios for heavy procs, almost certainly unintended -- procs tend to be around 10% of dps at most on normal weapons as i recall)

fighting more than 5 or 6 things at a time as the norm around which riposte stuff should be balanced (if stuff is so trivial that you're tanking significantly more than 6 at a time, it ought to be a complete waste of your time (screw farming))

Most obvious point no one mentions: if ripostes are supposed to be a significant source of DPS, that should be built into riposte and not dependent on certain weapon procs.

Riposte has had a shitty setup since day 1 (i.e. no scaling, slow weapons always riposte harder, and on the flip side ripostes from big damage, few swings per round npcs being disproportionately deadly and just having enemy ripostes happen more when tanking with fast weapons in general). Should be remade from scratch as something sensible rather than just having one stop gap for one abuse-case.
 
No one is really mentioning items with + riposte mod. There is an argument that these items are less effective at adding dps due to this change...
 
Unfortunately, one thing many seem to forget is that riposte procs are only a factor when the player is tanking. An across-the-board increase to proc rates would unbalance things in a huge way for non-tanks, as Beastlords, Rangers, Rogues, and so on were never proccing ripostes in the first place in high-stakes situations. Something might be said for Rampage or, to a much lesser extent, Phantom Strikes and such, but I am not even sure that these special melee abilities are subject to riposte checks anyway.

Am I missing something? :psyduck:
 
the only imbalance of making procs on melee weapon increase would slightly close the gap between melee and casters ever since bane was implemented in a new way
 
I came to this thread to post but Zaela beat me to it, good job Zaela!

Tank melee DPS is already nearly doubled by riposte-stancing 1 single mob and only goes up from there. It is ridiculous how quickly a warrior can hit 3x 4x 5x his base melee damage in what is supposed to be a defensive stance used by a tank (defense-focused class).

Any real and reasonable change is going to lower Tank DPS from "technically infinite" and I do not feel compelled to offer concessions to offset this.
 
The real problem here is that riposte stances basically result in infinite damage. Add in procs that happen a lot on riposte, and it only goes up from there. Have these procs be something like lifetaps and you hve a recipie to invincibility.

So the real fix here would be to change riposte stances to 100% dodge instead of 100% counterattack, wich would still achieve the (defensive) goal of not being hit. Alas, this would be a nerf to anyone who relys on riposte stances for DPS, and a bigger one then the current incarnation.

STAFF CAVEAT -- THIS IS NOT MY DEPARTMENT AND ITS BALANCE, CODING, IMPLEMENTATION, RESTRICTIONS, OR DENIAL ALL PROBABLY WOULD INVOLVE ME INDIRECTLY ONLY, IF AT ALL.
 
Nwaij said:
The real problem here is that riposte stances basically result in infinite damage. Add in procs that happen a lot on riposte, and it only goes up from there. Have these procs be something like lifetaps and you hve a recipie to invincibility.

So the real fix here would be to change riposte stances to 100% dodge instead of 100% counterattack, wich would still achieve the (defensive) goal of not being hit. Alas, this would be a nerf to anyone who relys on riposte stances for DPS, and a bigger one then the current incarnation.

STAFF CAVEAT -- THIS IS NOT MY DEPARTMENT AND ITS BALANCE, CODING, IMPLEMENTATION, RESTRICTIONS, OR DENIAL ALL PROBABLY WOULD INVOLVE ME INDIRECTLY ONLY, IF AT ALL.
Click to expand...

I have two points to make:

1. I saw a couple of posts with this infinite damage thing, and I believe it is not correct. (At least not as it relates to enrage.)

How many places in the game spawn like survival mode and have unlimited mobs charging in rapid succession to actually even have the NPC numbers to do infinite damage? One, maybe two? Also, enrage is limited by a bunch of factors, some of which are as follows: PC Survivability, # of hits on PC, amount of time the riposte stance is active. Today when I hit enrage on a warrior it lasted for a short duration, drained all stamina, and was not usable again for a long time.

If there are an infinite number of mobs, or an infinite number of hits, or enrage lasted an infinite amount of time then we could see infinite damage. In practice it is impossible because of limiting factors. At some point there is going to be a limit of damage done by this ability every time it is used.

2. Invincibility is another thing all together. Yes, reposting + 100% procing weapons + vastly over tiering content will look like invincibility. This is because of the over tiering, not the other factors. Tier 13 warriors are going to still be able to pull all of rust and live. They will still need a healer, just like before the changes.

I don't think changing the way riposting works is going to fix the real problem of over tiered players mass slaughtering under tier content. I think they are still going to do it, and I do not think it is going to be harder for them to do it in any meaningful way.

Just my 2cp.
 
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