Relic drops

Draxx said:
We often find that mobs on our Tier are being killed by guilds that are well above our tier, simply for relics.
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This happend even before the 2.0 changes (Prison geared toons would one group things like Gnok and Lord Z). I honsetly don't see how increasing the relic drop rate will prevent this. I'm not saying I like it or agree with it happening... I'm just adding my 2cp. =P
 
JayelleNephilim said:
This happend even before the 2.0 changes (Prison geared toons would one group things like Gnok and Lord Z). I honsetly don't see how increasing the relic drop rate will prevent this. I'm not saying I like it or agree with it happening... I'm just adding my 2cp. =P
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If the relic drop rate was increased across the board, then the higher end guilds wouldn't need to kill the lower mobs.
 
Brimztone said:
If the relic drop rate was increased across the board, then the higher end guilds wouldn't need to kill the lower mobs.
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but they would because not only is the mob easier and can be done with less people, but it now also has a higher chance of dropping a relic for them with less effort.

Leave the relic drop rate the way it is, nothing is broken or wrong with it, guilds have been advancing with the current system just fine.
 
How bout just upping drop rates from the top end and not upping on the bottom? I thought that was the idea in the begining, but it seems to be getting obscured.
 
Cinn said:
but they would because not only is the mob easier and can be done with less people, but it now also has a higher chance of dropping a relic for them with less effort.

Leave the relic drop rate the way it is, nothing is broken or wrong with it, guilds have been advancing with the current system just fine.
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You wouldn't need to, they would just want to and not care about the little guy.

Vicious circle. :psyduck:
 
I believe the original poster was more concerned with the issue of higher end guilds killing lower level content. Not suprisingly, this was discussed in a recent thread as well.

As far as the solution, I think part of it is more content or faster respawns on current content. SOD development seems to be putting out some new raid content which is promising to say the least. This was the answer, so to say, that was given in the previous post. It's definitely good.

However, I don't think the answer is making relics much more common. I would surmise that in any raiding guild, there will be at least a few people who need relics. With trivial content dropping nontrivial loot, you will end up with where Gnok, AWT, Lavascale, et al. were at months ago (with regard to their loot being tradable) -- higher levels using the imbalance to their favor. There is nothing wrong with that per se, but it certainly does hinder the level appropriate people from taking on these targets.

As an aside, our guild has not experienced terribly bad relic drop rates as of late. Sure it isn't quick to get a guild all "relic'ed up" from scratch, but it's also one huge step in regard to progression. It is certainly a nontrivial aspect to raiding. Quite frankly, when our guild was at the point where Yinny, Gnok, or AWT were even a remote challenge, we were by no means expecting to get relics.
 
I see some people posting here and they can't really be talking too much about higher end guilds killing their level tier targets. They know as well as I that after 4 or 5 sweeps in x zone for gear and it's pretty much all about relics after that on some nameds. For example, Storms Eye. No one who raids there currently, CW, Empire, Dandy, even House has been wetting their feet there as of late, kills Gertoz or Baladan for the 5th+ time for loot. You do it for the relic chance, end of story. And if you're not done killing it for loot after 5 times, whatever. It's an example. It varies by guild and class set up. Point is, no matter what level you're at in the raid game, you will down crap that you no longer need for loot for a chance at ancient spells or relic spells. As far as I'm concerned every red con mob should drop relics everytime. Hell you deserve it if you pull the kill off. It would certainly stop people from killing crap they don't need and honestly what does it matter if relics are rare drops or common, bottom line you need to be lv65 and able to kill the damn named in order to get it. That's reason enough for a 100% drop rate. The only reason to keep it rare is so you can feel good about yourself, and frankly that's what the raid gear is for. If we want raids to stay a healthy part of the game, make relics drop 100% or at least a lot more common. Only the selfish would not want this to happen, unless I am somehow missing a vital reason for the spells to not be 100% drop. Only thing I can come up with is person A gets all of his relics in 2 days and goes, "omg that sucks it was too easy I quit." /rolleyes

I think it's more important to keep the majority interested in the raid scene than it is to keep things as is so the minority that are there hardcore style can feel special. The interest just isn't there when targets aren't up. People will give up out of frustration.

Yes I like knowing my relics are rare to get and not everyone will have them, BUT I would give that up for the greater good, so that others after me are not discouraged regarding their relics, for raid targets being up to kill for their guild raiding to thrive.

I'm sorry that some will disagree with me. Sorry that they rather think about themselves than others. Seriously, if I am missing something here and there's a really good reason why relics should stay as is drop rate wise, then do tell. Do correct me and put me in my place. Maybe it's lore related or something. But do tell if the really good reason is there, and no, them being "huge upgrades" does not cut it as a really good reason. If getting them at the SE/DHK tier level of raiding, as 100% drops, instantly(in due time of farming nameds with 100% drop relics) allowed you to start raiding in prison without the gear upgrades, then I'd agree, yes they would be huge upgrades and debates of higher drop rates should be tossed out the window forever.
 
As far as i know there is only 1 mob that drops relic every time 100%, Yaralith. He can only be killed as a part of one long ass quest. Relics are supposed to be rare, i got my relics over ~1 year period. Started off in a low tier guild (we even raided very easy treasure maps), then we worked our way up to where we are now and well, after a year, relics arent really a problem any more.

If relics would drop from every red mob, i would be very disappointed.


Edit: There are plenty of targets up for every tier, more or less every day.
 
Looking back 1.5 years ago when some other guilds existed and there were 36 men raids, I don't think you got your relics faster.

I know my mage got her first one at about 120 AAs and being 65 for several months - and only because relics were class specific at that point (you got a Relic: Bladewind scroll without turning it in to anyone, just like a normal spell. And they were droppable, too).

Maybe that's why it appeared mages and necros had better chances at their relics and guilds that didn't need 5 copies of the same relic sold them and therefore people got their relics faster.
 
Someone made a good point about having a higher drop rate of relics from higher tier mobs.

In my mind, it doesn't make sense to kill a weaker mob where no one is gonna get gear just for the slight chance of the mob dropping the relic.

Say guild X is up to sepulcher's raid tier. Would they kill in sepulcher more often if they knew they had a 40% chance of relics dropping there as well as loot to gear up the guild? Or wipe out early names in Torment just to get relics at a much lower drop rate, and not gearing up the guild in the process?

The point the OP was trying to make is not to increase relic drops across the board, just at higher tiers so high end guilds don't go and wipe out lower tiered raid content simply for the relics.
 
For sure, people got their relics far faster when they were droppable and specific. At least a few of them faster. If they put in the effort to farm enough $, they could get one. It also allowed people to skip their crap relic/s,and go for their best, now with a 20% chance of getting the booby prize each time, chances are you're going to have to get it before you get your good one/s.
 
I think that harder mobs already have bigger chances of dropping relics and 10% is minimum for any easy mob that has a chance to drop one. I'm not sure, which guilds farm lower tier mobs for relics, we only kill them if we still need their loot.
 
Daelius said:
Someone made a good point about having a higher drop rate of relics from higher tier mobs.

In my mind, it doesn't make sense to kill a weaker mob where no one is gonna get gear just for the slight chance of the mob dropping the relic.

Say guild X is up to sepulcher's raid tier. Would they kill in sepulcher more often if they knew they had a 40% chance of relics dropping there as well as loot to gear up the guild? Or wipe out early names in Torment just to get relics at a much lower drop rate, and not gearing up the guild in the process?

The point the OP was trying to make is not to increase relic drops across the board, just at higher tiers so high end guilds don't go and wipe out lower tiered raid content simply for the relics.
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Relic drops ARE higher at the higher end tiers. MUCH higher.

They just take a raid to get. That's the rub.

While it may seem as though they're coming slower (they are, at 50% drop rate) it's really the same, since guilds have half the numbers they used to.

This is all business as usual. If you don't kill a mob that's up, someone else will. I personally havent' seen an issue with upper tiered guilds coming down to kill lower tiered mobs, but I will concede that there may be several guilds on the same tier racing for the same content (particularly if the mob has a slight chance to drop a relic).
 
True but I'd like to see exactly how raids have changed. My guess would be that it certainly wasn't halved by composition. 8 classes need relics. Out of 15. The 36 man format allowed quite a few more people to hang around of the notgetting relics variety. Nowadays will you see more than one of the following classes on a raid?

Monk
Rogue
Ranger
Sk
Pal
War
BL

Probably not. Also certain mobs I've been hearing that would have a pretty decently high chance (I would figure) in the tier that we are in, are currently as far as we've seen not rebalanced. ASOM reportedly being one of them, though we'll probably find that out soon enough.
 
Right, but by the time you're raiding in zones that "dont drop relics" you're actually farming for your archaics - and if you don't have your relics by then, you probably skipped a boatload of content. There's no raid in the world that would survive in those zones unless they had almost all full relic'd members.
 
Allielyn said:
Right, but by the time you're raiding in zones that "dont drop relics" you're actually farming for your archaics - and if you don't have your relics by then, you probably skipped a boatload of content. There's no raid in the world that would survive in those zones unless they had almost all full relic'd members.
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word, but having people join the guild who have 1 or 2 of their relics=going and killing stuff to get relics=aeternus whining.

just because you're farming for archaics doesn't mean "relics shouldn't drop". personally, i don't care. i don't mind going back and clearing PoA and stuff, hoping for relics. But obviously, when PoA is the top of what you're able to kill, its annoying to have people come and clear the whole zone just hoping for relics
 
as far as i know there is only one zone which does not drop relics, and there is only one guild that exclusively raids that zone, and that one guild happens to not need any relics. following this logic, every guild that is capable should be on a tier in which the mobs that they take down are able to drop relics. this seems to be more of a consequence of guilds raiding zones for other reasons, aka ornate gems, or they cant field a force to kill at their tier level
 
guyvertoo said:
as far as i know there is only one zone which does not drop relics, and there is only one guild that exclusively raids that zone, and that one guild happens to not need any relics. following this logic, every guild that is capable should be on a tier in which the mobs that they take down are able to drop relics. this seems to be more of a consequence of guilds raiding zones for other reasons, aka ornate gems, or they cant field a force to kill at their tier level
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QFT
 
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