recruiting new players?

[rogue923]

So SoD is advertising on Facebook, Google, and YouTube now? They are trying to get new players but they're not doing anything to improve the game for new players. All the efforts are going to adding and improving content for level 65 with AAs.

I have tried getting my friends to play but they don't like SoD for a lot of reasons. Part of it is the old EQ client used here. On other emulator servers the bandolier works, in game quest journal works, bazaar works, quest responses are links that can be clicked, in SoD all of these things either don't exist (bandolier), are text based (journal), or use custom commands that new players don't know about (/cm listsold, /cm listget, /cm listaccept, /cm listsend).

Newbie quests (you know, those things that new players want to at least try to do to get into a game) are either broken (http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Tamer_Kabil's_quests_-_Part_V) or non-existant in some areas (Sadri Malath has no quests for Warrior, Cleric, Paladin, or Shaman; Oggok has no quests for Beastlord or Shaman and one lousy quest for Rogue; Underhill has no quests for Wizard, Magician, or Enchanter; Newport has no quests for Shadow Knight; a lot of other starting zones have only 1 or 2 quests for the classes that start there; check out Wiz's impressive list of zones lacking in quests: http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=7658).

Even to team up with each other at level 1 is hard to do. They have to take the mansion of portals (if someone happens to tell them about it) where they obviously don't know what happens there because they've never seen it before and end up dying, or even worse, getting poisoned or diseased and not know how to get rid of it. It's even worse if someone rolls a Vah because to get to the nearest portal they have to run Mountain Crags of Tarhyl -> Southern Wastes of Tarhyl -> Stinger's Bog -> Greenmist -> Oggok. But then there are 2 zones connecting to each other that each have portals, Greater Faydark and Athica. How about moving one of those to the Vah starting zone? Halas is tough too. It's a pretty long walk just to get to Blackburrow and once they make it there they are most likely going to die. It almost can't be done at level 1 without someone else clearing the path for you.

Dying at level 1 gives exp debt and death sickness. I understand there needs to be consequence for dying but how about easing people into it? Experience debt and death sickness don't add any value to the game at level 1. The only purpose it is serving at level 1 is to slow down and annoy new players. It's hard for me to get new people to play when there is so much working against them.

And look I'm not complaining about these things. These aren't really that big of a deal to me, personally. I'm just saying these are the reasons why I have been unable to get new people to play.

 

[Allielyn]

Thanks for this post! I was just talking to a few staffers two days ago about player retention!

What I especially like about your post is that it is concrete, specific, and to the point. While we may or may not implement all of your ideas, these are the types of ideas (concrete, specific!) that we need! We do recognize that recruiting new players is only half the battle. Retaining them is the other half!

I would like to turn this thread into an open call for ideas along these lines. If any of you have other things to add to this thread, please do. We can always use more good ideas! What can we do to help retain players at the low levels (and the mid levels, even?)

Also, on the topic of this thread is there anything about the low end game that you *do* really like that we could do more of?

 

[Obscenitor]

.

 

[Rorne]

So SoD is advertising on Facebook, Google, and YouTube now? They are trying to get new players but they're not doing anything to improve the game for new players. All the efforts are going to adding and improving content for level 65 with AAs.

I agree it's a bit lopsided but it's silly to say nothing for lower level players is added (ie: expable adept and starfall items, cleric cult quest, warrior oggok mine quests, etc). I think the cause of the lopsidedness is that you have a bit less leeway with what exactly you can have a level 10 doing compared to a level 65 (or multiple 65s which is often the case) and there is also the fact that the time spent at 65 is essentially infinite and the power progression between a fresh 65 to a late game raider is probably much greater in magnitude than going from 1-65 in the first place.

I have tried getting my friends to play but they don't like SoD for a lot of reasons. Part of it is the old EQ client used here. On other emulator servers the bandolier works, in game quest journal works, bazaar works, quest responses are links that can be clicked, in SoD all of these things either don't exist (bandolier), are text based (journal), or use custom commands that new players don't know about (/cm listsold, /cm listget, /cm listaccept, /cm listsend).

The old client is a problem, it's a brick wall that has been run up against again and again and only recently has there been a real glimmer that we can upgrade to a newer version without having to redo a billion manhours worth of custom content but I mean it takes time and it takes effort, it's a fairly complex undertaking and it's a completely volunteer staff.

Newbie quests (you know, those things that new players want to at least try to do to get into a game) are either broken (http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Tamer_Kabil's_quests_-_Part_V) or non-existant in some areas (Sadri Malath has no quests for Warrior, Cleric, Paladin, or Shaman; Oggok has no quests for Beastlord or Shaman and one lousy quest for Rogue; Underhill has no quests for Wizard, Magician, or Enchanter; Newport has no quests for Shadow Knight; a lot of other starting zones have only 1 or 2 quests for the classes that start there; check out Wiz's impressive list of zones lacking in quests: http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=7658).

If a quest is broken definitely post about it in quest discussion. As for the lack of quests, quest writing is tough!! It seems easy, you think man all I need to do is throw some ye olde english around but then you start writing up a recursive dialogue tree as long as your arm and it's not compelling or it's uninspired or you just get writers block on it. As for the Wiz post, look at the date.

Even to team up with each other at level 1 is hard to do. They have to take the mansion of portals (if someone happens to tell them about it) where they obviously don't know what happens there because they've never seen it before and end up dying, or even worse, getting poisoned or diseased and not know how to get rid of it. It's even worse if someone rolls a Vah because to get to the nearest portal they have to run Mountain Crags of Tarhyl -> Southern Wastes of Tarhyl -> Stinger's Bog -> Greenmist -> Oggok. But then there are 2 zones connecting to each other that each have portals, Greater Faydark and Athica. How about moving one of those to the Vah starting zone? Halas is tough too. It's a pretty long walk just to get to Blackburrow and once they make it there they are most likely going to die. It almost can't be done at level 1 without someone else clearing the path for you.

The mansion I agree with you about, as a level 1 caster I'm pretty sure one knockback will kill you or bring you down to bleeding out. It's not ideal but the option is there to just take like 5 minutes and level to 2 before you go trekking. Travel isn't supposed to be trivialized on the server, that's just the flavor here, tipt and halas are remote for the sake of story reasons and I mean sure you could throw that stuff out for the sake of convenience but I think actually putting importance on that kind of thing is what sets this server apart and I mean where do you draw the line?

Dying at level 1 gives exp debt and death sickness. I understand there needs to be consequence for dying but how about easing people into it? Experience debt and death sickness don't add any value to the game at level 1. The only purpose it is serving at level 1 is to slow down and annoy new players. It's hard for me to get new people to play when there is so much working against them.

A healer will actually take that debt off you for ummm, I want to say 5 silver? Not exactly a small amount at level 1 (my.... snake.... scales...) but not a king's sum either.

And look I'm not complaining about these things. These aren't really that big of a deal to me, personally. I'm just saying these are the reasons why I have been unable to get new people to play.

It's kind of a complaint thread. Not say some of them are not valid complaints but they are definitely not new or unknown ones.

 

[rogue923]

As for the Wiz post, look at the date.

I doubt much has changed with that. I'm sure a couple more quests have been added, but it only makes sense that people have been working on end game content and not early game content because most people fly by the early game and the end game is never ending. I would check out those zones myself but It would be a pain get every class/town combination through the dream and look for quests.

Travel isn't supposed to be trivialized on the server, that's just the flavor here, tipt and halas are remote for the sake of story reasons and I mean sure you could throw that stuff out for the sake of convenience but I think actually putting importance on that kind of thing is what sets this server apart and I mean where do you draw the line?

It actually seems like travel is trivialized here. Between MoP, NPCs that cast SoW, NPCs that teleport people, druid teleports, wizard teleports, and at least 31 different gate items (http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Category:Gate_Necks), travel is pretty trivial. Unless, of course, you're new the server. Then travel is a huge PITA for you and nothing for everyone else. If that's just the flavor here then that's fine leave it how it is. I don't think making a new cat run across 6 zones to meet up with their friend is what sets this server apart, though. I'm not sure I see any added value in making 2 new players that want to play together spend 30+ minutes just running across zones to meet up.

It's kind of a complaint thread. Not say some of them are not valid complaints but they are definitely not new or unknown ones.

When I said I'm not complaining I actually meant it. These things don't bother me and if none of them were ever changed I wouldn't care. I'm not the one that quits the game because of these things, but there definitely are people who won't put it up with it. You probably don't hear from a lot of these people when they quit early (usually the ones that go mouthing off about quitting don't actually quit) so I'm passing it along.

I think scaling is the answer to a lot of it.
Either something like no give exp debt until like level 5 and no death sickness until level 10, or have them both at level 1 but make the debt small enough for 1 kill and the death sickness only last a couple of ticks and make them scale up with level until they match what they are currently.

The wizards that stand infront of portals that flag you for using the MoP could could take pity on the puny and teleport people to the portal of their choice but only works for players under a certain level (10? 5?). Maybe another way around it for story line could be when you talk to the wizard instead of them flagging you for mop at level 1 they could tell you that you're not powerful enough to use the mansion yet and its their duty to provide teleport services to people that can't enter the mansion. At a certain level you can get flagged and the wizard no longer has to offer teleporting services to you.

Some things I do like about low end game are the quests that are fully implemented and functional, like the ones in the church of the deep (petitioner advice, collecting church dues) and in the newport rogue guild (pick pocketing, picking locks, assassinating). Not really a fan of the necro/sham/shd/bst quests in grobb - "go get 1 thing and 2 doo-hickeys and 1 what-cha-ma-call-it and i'll make a bracer out of it for you."

I also like the quests where you turn in stuff for faction, exp, and money (broken mosquito legs, dried leech sucker, froglok scraps in stinger's bog; beelte pincer, rat tail, ratman hood in newport/newport sewer) I wish every zone had 3 things to turn in like that.

I like the fence in the newport rogue guild. I think that is good for getting new Rogues hooked.

 

[Slaariel]

"All the efforts are going to adding and improving content for level 65 with AAs."

This is false. Even if it were true, it would make sense because most players are 65 with some AAs but no it is false. We love making all content.

The mop is ultra forgiving for low level players.

There are more newbie quests than you are aware of.

"I also like the quests where you turn in stuff for faction, exp, and money (broken mosquito legs, dried leech sucker, froglok scraps in stinger's bog; beelte pincer, rat tail, ratman hood in newport/newport sewer) I wish every zone had 3 things to turn in like that."

Too WoW-like for me, sorry.

Also I mean I am against death fatigue in general and event death fatigue specifically so you definitely have an ally in that. Just need something meaningful to take its place.

Also it was made much more forgiving lately (you can meditate with death fatigue).

Also: EVERYONE READING THIS TAKE NOTE!

IF A MAJOR POINT IN YOUR ARGUMENT IS "DEVS ONLY MAKE STUFF FOR 65+++ PLAYERS AND IGNORE EVERYONE ELSE" YOU ARE WRONG AND SHOULD RECONSIDER YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT!

Seriously don't ever cite a Wiz post either.

LAST POINT I promise anyone who wants to make newbie quests just sign on the dotted line I will give you a quest to make.

X_________________________________________________

WARNING: MAKING QUESTS THAT ARE NOT BROKEN AND ARE FUN AND INTERESTING TAKES A REAL LONG TIME unless you are like woldaff or zaela OR MARZA OK.... even then it is a lot of effort.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Upon further review if you play this game and have all these ideas (that are not altogether correct) maybe 1 thing we can do is publicize how not correct those ideas are. So help me out.. how did you decide that devs make content only for 65+++ characters and how did you decide that there were no lowbie quests added since before Wiz left the server? These are real questions I am not trolling. How did you decide the MoP was too hard at level 2 after 1 or two tries? Why do you believe it is a mystery that exp debt costs basically nothing to remove at low levels? Etc. Etc. None of these things are true but you seem to have very firm convictions that they are.


HERE IS MY proposed list of changes I just came up with this:

1 - Expand the rogue burglary mini-game. ALSO POSSIBLE: come up with something similar for other classes.. no reason rogues and bards should have all the fun.

2 - Put a healer in the Dream as well as an akhevan 4-armed guy to help with the tutorial aspects of these things.

3 - Expand war effort for all levels.

4 - Maybe find a middle ground on death fatigue. 5 minutes is REALLY NOT THAT BAD but whatever maybe we can dork with it.

5 - I'm not going to write up a huge list of all the stuff we have done for < 65 just in the last year but really by insinuating that nothing was done you are actually denigrating real time and effort by real people so just stop it.


1 and 3 are really cool ideas btw that I am proud of myself for having but here is the problem.. for a new dev it would take months and months to do all this and for an experienced dev it would take -nearly the same time- plus getting everything planned and rewards vetted and stuff this is a gargantuan undertaking. Anyway ok im done.

I guess I'm saying that if you started at level 1 today you would be level 65 before any of that went in.

 

[Marza]

...Newport has no quests for Shadow Knight;

Actually this is mistaken. I know because we had a dev write up a quest line for them not even a year ago! And it is on the wiki too!

http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Terror_Lord_Cadrak

 

[Tarutao]

A couple of notes: Every new batch of Dev-Trainees gets some amount of newbie quest writing done (like the batch just a couple months ago).

Also, the war effort... see [War Scavenger]. It's a quest in Erimal, and it has it's own page on the Wiki. Unless I'm mistaken, the recent loot code changes that disrupted the quest should no longer be a problem.

A third note: I really <3 that you used the search feature and read a thread on the topic you wanted to discuss. Granted, it was 5 year old information that made me feel like a nostalgic man with a cane in a chair reminiscing about the last months before the big "SoD 2.0" changeover... but still... much <3 for using that Search button!

 

[darksabbath]

It has been awhile since I made or leveled an alt, much less died at those levels.. but I thought xp debt didn't happen until level 10? If not, that seems like a solid solution for you. Then again, exp debt at low levels goes away in a kill or two anyways. Scaling the fatigue for noob levels would be an intriguing idea.

 

[rogue923]

"All the efforts are going to adding and improving content for level 65 with AAs."

This is false. Even if it were true, it would make sense because most players are 65 with some AAs but no it is false. We love making all content.

There are more newbie quests than you are aware of.

That was more of a general statement but if you want to take things literally then why do you ignore the part where I said

"I'm sure a couple more quests have been added, but it only makes sense that people have been working on end game content and not early game content because most people fly by the early game and the end game is never ending."

The mop is ultra forgiving for low level players.

MoP is ultra forgiving for low level players that know what they are doing. It is unforgiving for low level players that have no idea what to expect there.

"I also like the quests where you turn in stuff for faction, exp, and money (broken mosquito legs, dried leech sucker, froglok scraps in stinger's bog; beelte pincer, rat tail, ratman hood in newport/newport sewer) I wish every zone had 3 things to turn in like that."

Too WoW-like for me, sorry.

These are already in the game in most zones... And what do you think is better for raising faction? Picking crops?

Maybe find a middle ground on death fatigue. 5 minutes is REALLY NOT THAT BAD but whatever maybe we can dork with it.

I know it's not that bad. But to someone new the game that's trying it out for the first time isn't going to be happy about 5 minutes of literally doing nothing just waiting for death fatigue to go away when they want to experience all of the cool changes that have been made here.

All of these things I mentioned are exactly the reasons why people have told me they don't want to play SoD. If you don't care why some people won't stick around that's fine. Then this post isn't for you. Don't blast every line I write when all I'm doing is passing the information along.

 

[darksabbath]

Um.. unless you choose the option to skip the chat entirely, the wizard tells you what to expect in the MoP. Unless you are an exp'd player here, why would you skip past it?
Next you'll want people who choose Human/Barb as their race to get ultra-vision inside the mop, because they can't see where they are going, and they deleted their noob torch liek the noob that they are...

 

[Boehm]

2 - Put a healer in the Dream as well as an akhevan 4-armed guy to help with the tutorial aspects of these things.

You might also consider is a text addition to the first dream npc, something which explains the relative difficulty of starting zones, and that now is a good time to re-roll for such a zone. Newport as a completely new fantasy mmo player was ideal since there were all these npcs to talk to and progressed players to envy. My alt was an iksar shaman at the time and Grobb was pretty solid too having other players and a bunch of things to do, though I moved him to Newport at 5ish to be with the main. Grobb guards did not like Erudite necromancers, but then who does.

The only two zones I think are issues are Mountain Crags and Halas. Mountain Crags is well thought out from a quest and level progression stand point to say level 10-12. You will just do so alone. Halas is both remote and not. Something explaining that the two zones have additional difficulties and that the player should either reconsider or accept them. Recommending a race for one of the easier evil and good starter zones as an alternative.

 

[Belarod]

I would just like to add some ideas. True, I understand it may be a lot of work to implement , I and many others in the game appreciate everything that the Devs and GM’s do to make this game enjoyable for all.

I remember when I first played on “live” doing class specific guild quests. These generally taught you how to play your class and gave you some class specific gear. Add class specific quests, culminating in the Starfall Quest for the sense of accomplishment. Include quests that are achievable with key class skills/spells/abilities. Even include quests in game, that teaches new players to use the banking system, MoP, the maps or even how to make hot keys, (example: assist buttons) or anything else that higher level players expect players to know how to do. It can be very discouraging to a new player to join a group of experienced players (alts) to get yelled at for not knowing something that others automatically expect them to know (I've been there). Yes the wiki is great but new players may not use the wiki right away, and the wiki only teaches you so many things.

 

[rogue923]

Um.. unless you choose the option to skip the chat entirely, the wizard tells you what to expect in the MoP. Unless you are an exp'd player here, why would you skip past it?
Next you'll want people who choose Human/Barb as their race to get ultra-vision inside the mop, because they can't see where they are going, and they deleted their noob torch liek the noob that they are...

Reading about it and experiencing it are 2 different things. Look I know mop is easy for you. It's easy for me too. Hell I've been known to intentionally let them whack me if it'll get me where I want to go faster. But if mop is as easy for newbie as everyone makes it out to be then why are there always corpses there, people spreading the plague to me in the bank, and noobs asking how to get rid of the poison and disease?

 

[Masuriya]

Big carepost inc:

I recently started new again after a few years hiatus from EQ-style games. Shards of course has changed for the better but I'm just going to go into what's good about SoD compared to what I remember of live 5+ years ago and diddling around on Project 1999 and progression servers.


The Good -

1) Bind Wound effectiveness. Pretend I said this about 12 times. It makes soloing a melee easy as long as you don't die a horrible death breaking into a place. It's still not root rotting or a pet class easy but it's leaps and bounds better and I don't feel as punished not wanting to 2-box.

2) Mansion of Portals. I think this was a good compromise between the trivial idea of PoP books taking you everywhere and being left out in the cold running everywhere or begging a poor wizard/druid for a port. For a lowbie I can understand how it can be difficult at first but the wizards tend to do a good job of telling you of the dangers. The post above about someone in the dream telling you some detailed information would be nice but kind of strange flow-wise. Maybe stick it at the end or something?

3) Dalayan Beginners. A fantastic idea to stick the lowbies in the same guild so they can ask their 'stupid' questions and get acquainted with the game. Also great is that the GMs and Admins are there to help out with mechanics information and things of that nature. It also tends to foster its own community and really put into the mind of people that you aren't alone out there unless you choose to be. Community is such a drastic part of MMOs that you rarely see in newer ones that are basically $15 a month to play a single player game with some multiplayer raid content.

4) Rogue minigame of stealing and heat. This is so much fun as a lowbie rogue learning what you can and can't get away with. Kudos on this front whoever designed it. It'd be great if there was cool stuff like that to do for all classes for fabulous cash prizes but for rogue/bard it fits so well and makes you actually feel like a rogue instead of a stabbing machine.

5) EXP system. Mostly fast, efficient, low penalties for dying, you don't lose your gear when you fall over dead. All good. I like risky play and I'm less likely to go explore a dangerous part of the dungeon if I have to run back without my gear from bumblefuck nowhere. Great compromise between risk and reward. I also like the new area bonus and zone modifiers to encourage people to go elsewhere. I convinced a group to drop from the warrens and go to Fearstone and it was well worth our time xp-wise.

6) Binding mostly where you please. Not much to say here, great choice for melee improvements.

7) EXPable items and Adept loot. This tends to help with people starting on a clean slate as it means you can get great loot with a slight investment that even grows with you. All around good clean fun for the kids.

8) The community. Another I can't emphasize enough. People are so friendly here which is a refreshing change from the 'got mine, fuck YOU' style that most MMOs tend to foster these days. I never felt like someone was being an asshole to me intentionally so I never feel like I have to be an asshole back. Hell, I was bidding on a pair of boots yesterday and someone backed off and even offered to give them to me because I actually could've used them. The community fostered here is fantastic.

Of course, there are some things that tend to irk me here and there:

The Bad -

1) Little newbie interaction. Erudin and Newport have great quests to put some coins in your purse and give you a few items and then it's back to scouring the wiki for anything of value. God help you if you start in Stinger's Bog because if I was a lowbie that place would probably cause me to nerd out the first time. It has an XP mod to help but the mobs tend to be spread out and there's some that just flat out whip your ass if you aren't careful and it's easy to overextend past the friendly mobs. I understand writing quests isn't as simple as writing some text and planting the sucker in but places like surefall could use a few things past a quest for a spell and a quest for a good bow.

2) Early gear issues. A lot of this has to do with the fact you can vendor items for a decent profit if nobody else wants them. When you're lucky to have 30-40pp to your name, your best bet is to pick up the ancient molds and corresponding scraps to make the armor. Sometimes you get a piece that's great for you and sometimes its just there because it's better than whatever piece of vendor leather you're wearing at the time. Pretty much the best place to go would be the warrens for the soft leather drops that are somewhat common or the gemweave if you can sucker a group into going to runnyeye (highly unlikely, I have met one person who said they didn't abhor this zone. Strange, I never found it bad). This is double for a tank early on as an underperforming DPS means things die slower, an undergeared tank is a drain on the healer and the group. Some more lowbie armor quests like the Newport Cup for casters in Newport would be fantastic. Nothing that just says 'grab some garbage cat pelts and put it in a box and TA DA!' but actual fun, well-written quests. A buff to the ancient patterns wouldn't be bad either as some of those pieces are questionable. Still, they're better than nothing.

3) Quest chaining. If you don't have the wiki open while you're cruising around looking for quests/xp you would easily miss half the quests in the game. It wouldn't be bad for Guard Fartsmell to tell you after a while, "hey Guard Gaswhiffer might have something for you to do, I have nothing for you." The bandit heads are a good example of this, it would have been quite a search to find the asshole that takes them. Maybe that would be too WoW-like but sometimes its nice to know if there's a quest I'm missing without having to check the wiki every time I change zones.

4) Show when dropped items can be used in a tradeskill. This may be babying the new players too much but I remember that spider silks and other things of that nature are valuable to players. What I don't know if the other half are. I would have never known Ectoplasm is valuable without seeing people spam for buying it and half the items I keep like a packrat to make sure I'm not vendoring plat for silver prices. It would certainly help lowbies make some quick cash to gear up a bit.

All in all, I've thoroughly enjoyed my time in Dalaya past some things that bug me. The other stuff I have is mostly opinions (vendors paying too much for certain items [good and bad in its own way to me], MQ not having a true neutral option) but really this is a fantastic product. The devs should be proud of the community they've fostered and developed here.

 

[phroggonalog]

truefax the vast majority of players new to the server that ive guided through the MoP with /tells have had more difficulty getting to oggok (they take the WW portal instead) than avoiding 4 armed lolkhevans, complaining about the MoP for noobs sake is out of style

 

[Allielyn]

Big carepost inc:

I recently started new again after a few years hiatus from EQ-style games. Shards of course has changed for the better but I'm just going to go into what's good about SoD compared to what I remember of live 5+ years ago and diddling around on Project 1999 and progression servers. . . . . .

Thanks! This is really great feedback!

3) Quest chaining. If you don't have the wiki open while you're cruising around looking for quests/xp you would easily miss half the quests in the game. It wouldn't be bad for Guard Fartsmell to tell you after a while, "hey Guard Gaswhiffer might have something for you to do, I have nothing for you." The bandit heads are a good example of this, it would have been quite a search to find the asshole that takes them. Maybe that would be too WoW-like but sometimes its nice to know if there's a quest I'm missing without having to check the wiki every time I change zones.

4) Show when dropped items can be used in a tradeskill. This may be babying the new players too much but I remember that spider silks and other things of that nature are valuable to players. What I don't know if the other half are. I would have never known Ectoplasm is valuable without seeing people spam for buying it and half the items I keep like a packrat to make sure I'm not vendoring plat for silver prices. It would certainly help lowbies make some quick cash to gear up a bit.

Also going to say I kind of agree with this. There is too much dependence on the wiki, and that's partially player preference (because it's *really* convenient) but it definitely pulls a player out of immersion to *have* to go there. If there is any way to avoid *HAVING* to check the wiki and ways to promote in-game interaction with in-game hints, I'm all for it.

Also, we should jail people who say in ooc: "check the wiki, duh!"

 

[Harowen]

As a new person who's started to play within the last couple weeks and is planning on continuing to do so, I would like to share my impressions and comments.
Comments from someone who is new to the server (past couple of weeks) and is intending to continue playing here.


Some history
First off, I did play EQ1, so had a pre-existing level of familiarity which probably helps. I stopped playing EQ2 when Velious came out Feb 2011 mostly because the expansion didn't look very appealing, the mechanics were completely dumbed down, and I wanted to get away from the time commitment of raiding.

I played Rift for 3 mo's rather casually, and having nothing left to do after getting two characters to 50 since I don't wish to raid on a scheduled basis anymore and the rest of the game is too easy.


So all that being said, on to the good aspects that drew me to here and why I'm planning on continuing to play.

The good
- What is that? An actual challenge? I can't remember the last game I played where I actually died before level 5. Oh wait, it was EQ1.

- Being required to manage your resources. Not being given the option of having 10 hotbars giving you 100 different buttons you can press at a moments notice is a good thing. Having to select which 8 spells are important at this particular moment requires you to engage in a way that more "modern" MMO's don't do anymore.

- Slower rate of development. I'm a bit of a completionist and want to be able to enjoy the journey and development over time, not feel like I missed out on 90% of the content relevant to my level range because I spent 4 hours in one location.

- Adventuring Bands. Great idea.

- War zones and invasions. Amusing that SoD has a better implementation of invasions than Rift does, when that was kind of the selling point of Rift. (Doesn't matter whether you win or lose, your precious quest hub will come back 5 mins after the event ends.)

- Combat that isn't over within 12 seconds. Not having most combat be a series of pull mobs, everybody push 1 button, maybe 2, fight over go get more while I tea-bag these corpses, is a good thing.

Unfortunately, I think the challenge aspect of the game is what deters most of what I call the "new gamers". These gamers have been trained by other games that everything is easy. WoW is a big part of this, but isn't the sole concern. Most console games fall into this category now too. "New gamers" aren't able to function in the face of a challenge. If they can't defeat the challenge the absolute first time they encounter it, they just quit and go somewhere else. The unwillingness to accept any sort of learning curve or skill requirement is sad, but common. It's like the emo phenomenon spilled over into gaming.



Some comments on prior points that were raised.
- /cm awkwardness, this is more of a general interface issue. "New gamers" are often very unaccepting of an interface that is not a clone of the one they're used to.

- Mansion of Portals. I have to agree with phroggonalog, going to Western Wastes instead of Oggok was the largest challenge I found here. My buddy described it to me and I watched him run through it once, so had no problems navigating it or realizing what was going on.

- Difficulty in grouping up as level 1 chars's. There's an easy solution to this, and it also applies to the MoP concern:

Group with the person you're inviting to play the game. Playing any MMO is a hobby, I would not attempt to get a friend of mine involved in a hobby that I really enjoy by sending them to go try it while I'm doing something else. Let them make whatever char they want, you make an alt that complements their char and is able to start in the same location. Run around together, give them a quick tour of the town, maybe run through MoP together. Show them the ropes.



I would agree with points 2) and 3) by SuperStanos, regarding gear issues and quest chaining. There's no real lore method in game of getting nudged in the right direction. So you're either wiki-surfing, or asking opinions in /gu. Neither of these are really terrible options, and they do have the advantage of not requiring the dev's to code anything.

Probably the main thing I have issue with and could see discouraging new players (particularly who never played EQ1) is the feeling of not really having much direction to work towards.

What would be really awesome, but would take a lot of time and dev commitment, would be something along these lines:
- Major cities have Loremaster type npc
- Quests are fairly accurately labeled for level range and race/class restrictions
- Certain items are flagged as "very worthwhile"

Once these were all in place, interacting with the Loremaster would result in being directed towards level appropriate zones, npc names with appropriate quests, and general idea's as to certain items that may prove worthwhile (possibly with options to just research higher level items that you can plan towards and lower level ones you might have missed).

Take this item for example:
http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Withered_Scroll_of_the_Flameseer

Incredibly useful item for any mana users, particularly for priests who can deal with the health loss easier.

How did I find out about this item? My buddy said, "Oh you're 15 now? We should start camping for the priest-lich item soon". To which I replied, "The what?".

Having this in-game would be awesome, but time consuming to put in place. It might be easier in the long-run to add sections to the wiki and set up some common item goals and questing guidelines there. Amazing would be to have the wiki formatted in such a way that Loremaster mobs could pull the information and relay it in-game, with some sort of flag requiring new changes in this section to be vetted before loading into the Loremaster algorithms.

 

[Animand]

I got lots of friends to try (and a few to play) here in the last couple years, and I ended up treating them all the same way (as follows):

(1) We talked about things we really enjoy(ed)
(2) They all reminisced about EverQuest with me
(3) I mentioned still feeling that way about the game I play
(4) They mention they have tried EQ again recently and it wasn't the same
(5) I explain a little about SoD's similarity to Live
(6) They express an interest in trying it sometime
(7) I bet them I can have them running SoD within 30 minutes
(8) I am in game in 15 minutes
(9) They "arrive"
(10) They make accounts and characters
(11) I guide them through the first several hours in person
(12) They cry when the sun rises and they have to leave Wonderland for work.

Now, part 11 is the easiest, but most crucial part. I always:

(1) Make sure to guide them through the Dream (explaining a little about the SoD storyline)
(2) Explain why they are in the city their in (and give a couple minutes of history)
(3) Guide them to their guildhall and related merchants
(4) Explain the concept of the Main Quest in terms of the books and summons they received
(5) Relay the power of early level Hand to Hand and Bind Wounds for all classes
(6) Direct them to the newbie quest for their starting zone (the ones from guards at the gates)
(7) Get them killing mobs at getting level 2 and onward
(8) Start explaining the enhanced functionality of /who searches
(9) Explain how /ooc and /auc are serverwide
(10) Show they are in Dalaya's Beginners and it really is there for questions they have
(11) ****Make a hotkey for /cm help normal**** and give an overview of /cm commands
(12) Explain the use of exp debt, death effects, and Healers (and where the closest one is)
(13) Detail the in-combat and out-of-combat effects, especially where they improve regen
(14) Mention sellable tradeskill drops in the area and stress how worthwhile their collection and sale is

This is usually all well covered by level 5. At that point I cover more advanced subjects:

(1) Mansion of Portals
(2) Benefits of grouping, especially regarding the exp split not penalizing extra players
(3) Popular areas for grouping (Blackburrow/Warrens)
(4) Adepts
(5) The listsold system
(6) Adventure bands
(7) Quests to look forward to (Starfall/Thurg/Newport Ring)
(8) Importance of city faction (gate necks)
(9) Alignment and deity system

It's a lot of go over, but I try to give enough of a cover that they can ask the right questions to get the answers they need.

Enjoy my lists!

 

[Goldfolk]

I think a big issue for Eurotime players now is the lack of numbers. I levelled a ranger trackbot and in order to get groups going I had to send personal tells to the 1 or 2 people within my XP range offering ports and guaranteed 96% rezzes if things went wrong.

If you are new to SoD and don't have friends, levelling from 20-50 can be a real chore because most classes can't solo easily and there just aren't numbers a lot of the time to make a group.