Recent pet changes : Regarding BST in particular.

B

bobothedino

Dalayan Beginner
having been away for a few weeks, i've come back to find yet another disappointing change to pets which makes it impossible to solo for the beastlord class in particular.

Other pet classes have effective nukes and dots from long range - they do not have any significant melee capabilities ( e.g. mage/wiz/necro).

The beastlord on the other hand is a melee with a pet. His spells are designed to augment his melee and pet damage, not to be a substitute for them. At level 60, my best nuke is 430 damage for 200mana. My best dot is 420 damage for 160 mana. Clearly this is nowhere near the capabilities of other pet classes.

To be effective when soloing, the beastlord has to employ a combination of melee/slows/cripples/nukes/dots and pet damage. The pet MUST be able to take aggro off the beastlord or else solo'ing is not possible.

Beastlord heal spells are 'ok' at best. The higher lvl ones take upwards of 7 seconds to cast and are extremely inefficient. The best heal we have currently is the level 34 one which only heals for 600pts.

Now considering how much mobs hit for at higher levels, you can see how it would be completely ineffective to sit back and just heal the pet till the mob is dead.

What I also see is that beastlords have not been compensated in any way even after this ludicrous change. We haven't been given any new spells specially designed to help us adapt, our spells havent been made more effective or efficient and our pets have not been restored to the damage that they should be doing in the first place. (quad + bash + kick , max hit 67 @ lvl 60.).

It completely boggles me how no-one thought anything wrong of this and how deleting one of the BST's strong points - if not the most major strong-point, seems to have gone unnoticed.
 
I feel sorry for the poor beastlords of Live, having had to go through this from the very start of their class.

BTW, check BST styles on the dev forum.
 
heh, I was going to say the exact same thing.

I levelled a beastlord to 65 on live and it wasn't a problem...duo with monk the majority of the time.

Should be substantially easier here...
 
The last time I checked, your 1250 heal is 100 mana less than (I think) my 1250 heal is, as a druid, how is that inefficient? Now, with my new heal, my heals have become more efficient than yours, of course, but I wouldn't call your healing spells inefficient. Well, that's how I see it anyway.
 
Personally I think bst's were a crutch answer to people not being able to level any other class. Their only use is bst crack imho...bst crack + their dps = not worth having them on a raid compared to ANY other class. I would not mind at all if this class were not a selectable class on WR. It would lead people to play useful class's instead of trying to be a jack of all trades and whining that they should get improved.



Lokdar Lorduk
Guildleader of Ruin
60 ranjah
 
all i hear on this board is hippocritical BS.


You preach and preach about not being EQ live, yet you go and make changes to pets to make them react as they do on Live.

And then when others ask about their classes not matching live, or their abilities not matching live you say this is a Custom server, and go bonkers on them for comparing it to live.

What a load of toss.


The fact is, pet aggro may be equal to live now but the pet damage and pet proc is not. Pets may not be able to tank in live but at least they're not super nerfed either.

Pets cant even quad at level 60 or bash or kick, and pet procs are lower here than on live. This was supposedly done so pets wouldn't be able to tank as good on WR.

Well now that you have removed the tanking ability completely why not restore pets to the live model ? I'd like to see my pet do more then 3 hits per round and hit for the highest possible.


All I see is this class is being gradually degraded time and again and there's only contradicting reasons for it.


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oh and Lokdar, i would like to see how you would react if your class kept getting nerfed and nerfed and major strong points that you had are now gone. I'd like to see if you would still feel the same way, after having invested alot of time and effort into your character. My guess is you'd probably be just as pissed.
 
bobothedino said:
all i hear on this board is hippocritical BS.


You preach and preach about not being EQ live, yet you go and make changes to pets to make them react as they do on Live.

And then when others ask about their classes not matching live, or their abilities not matching live you say this is a Custom server, and go bonkers on them for comparing it to live.

What a load of toss.


The fact is, pet aggro may be equal to live now but the pet damage and pet proc is not. Pets may not be able to tank in live but at least they're not super nerfed either.

Pets cant even quad at level 60 or bash or kick, and pet procs are lower here than on live. This was supposedly done so pets wouldn't be able to tank as good on WR.

Well now that you have removed the tanking ability completely why not restore pets to the live model ? I'd like to see my pet do more then 3 hits per round and hit for the highest possible.


All I see is this class is being gradually degraded time and again and there's only contradicting reasons for it.


----
oh and Lokdar, i would like to see how you would react if your class kept getting nerfed and nerfed and major strong points that you had are now gone. I'd like to see if you would still feel the same way, after having invested alot of time and effort into your character. My guess is you'd probably be just as pissed.
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Excuse me, but my reason for this reply was that you practically said beastlords cannot possibly function with this kind of aggro, so I was pointing out a situation where they can.

I'm not afraid to use live systems. I've copied the entire base GAME, have I not? This is not live, but that doesn't mean I can't use a good idea if live had it first.

Have you checked out styles yet? Like the one that LETS YOUR PET TANK FOR YOU IF YOU WANT TO? No. I imagine not. You were too busy complaining about all these nerfs, such as raising the AC of BST pets by 20% two patches ago, HP by 15%, level by a couple notches on several pets, aggro on procs and-

Oh wait. Nerfs. Right.

Wtf are you babbling about? Pets can bash and kick. And dude. On live, the level 60 pet what? Level 46? Here it's level 53. Due to this level change, pet DPS is actually higher here, and your 65 pet quads. I see you consistently ignoring everything except what lets you make a point of being a martyr.
 
Pet heals

Beastlord heal spells are 'ok' at best. The higher lvl ones take upwards of 7 seconds to cast and are extremely inefficient. The best heal we have currently is the level 34 one which only heals for 600pts.
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Why are you complaining? Oh no, you're best heal is 1250! Have you seen the necromancer pet heals? Unless there are new custom ones I don't know about, they get one at level 8, level 29, and level 64. So necormancers are stuck with a 159 health pet heal, until 64, and probably longer since you need to get the spell to drop.

I'm not complaining, as I prefer grouping to soloing, but beastlords are a lot better off with pet heals than necromancers. I'd take a 600 heal at whenever you get it anyday.
 
Necromancers actually don't get a heal at 64. All 61-65 spells are custom and do not follow the live model. (with some very few exceptions, and even then it's not at the same levels)
 
Why are you complaining? Oh no, you're best heal is 1250! Have you seen the necromancer pet heals? Unless there are new custom ones I don't know about, they get one at level 8, level 29, and level 64. So necormancers are stuck with a 159 health pet heal, until 64, and probably longer since you need to get the spell to drop.
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Do you realise that you are comparing a pure caster with extremely powerful spell dmg capabilities AND a strong pet for added dps, to a hybrid which is 75% based on their pet? The BL is only a little better at melee but lags a great deal behind in spell dmg, which is why they need strong pets and efficient heals.

If necromancers got heal spells anywhere near healing capabilities of other classes they would be unstoppable. The beastlord's mana pool is not enough to use those large heals effectively. This is why the majority of BL's who solo will still be using the lvl 34 heal, at lvl 60 and beyond.

Ordinarily, the necro's not having a decent pet heal wouldn't be so bad at all because you could snare/fear, as this is not possible currently I can understand what you're trying to say but try to understand our views as well.
[/quote]
 
Last night in Upper Velks, I was partied with Bodesta and Bhalorin(61 Bst). I didnt have my log on(silly me), but he seemed to be pumping out some serious DPS with him and his pet, as well as slowing mobs and buffing. Anyone parsed a 60 beastlord, and compared it to other classes? I know he was seriously outdamaging me at least(okay okay, stop the paladin dps jokes please).

There does seem to be a widely held perception that beastlords are a virtual waste of space in a party, but after seeing Bhalorin in action, he seemed to more than hold his own.
 
first post.
bobothedino said:
Other pet classes have effective nukes and dots from long range - they do not have any significant melee capabilities ( e.g. mage/wiz/necro).

The beastlord on the other hand is a melee with a pet. His spells are designed to augment his melee and pet damage, not to be a substitute for them. At level 60, my best nuke is 430 damage for 200mana. My best dot is 420 damage for 160 mana. Clearly this is nowhere near the capabilities of other pet classes.

To be effective when soloing, the beastlord has to employ a combination of melee/slows/cripples/nukes/dots and pet damage. The pet MUST be able to take aggro off the beastlord or else solo'ing is not possible.

Beastlord heal spells are 'ok' at best. The higher lvl ones take upwards of 7 seconds to cast and are extremely inefficient. The best heal we have currently is the level 34 one which only heals for 600pts.

Now considering how much mobs hit for at higher levels, you can see how it would be completely ineffective to sit back and just heal the pet till the mob is dead.

What I also see is that beastlords have not been compensated in any way even after this ludicrous change. We haven't been given any new spells specially designed to help us adapt, our spells havent been made more effective or efficient and our pets have not been restored to the damage that they should be doing in the first place. (quad + bash + kick , max hit 67 @ lvl 60.).



2nd post

Do you realise that you are comparing a pure caster with extremely powerful spell dmg capabilities AND a strong pet for added dps, to a hybrid which is 75% based on their pet? The BL is only a little better at melee but lags a great deal behind in spell dmg, which is why they need strong pets and efficient heals.
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Well first off I find your post a paradox. First you say:

The beastlord on the other hand is a melee with a pet. His spells are designed to augment his melee and pet damage, not to be a substitute for them. At level 60, my best nuke is 430 damage for 200mana. My best dot is 420 damage for 160 mana. Clearly this is nowhere near the capabilities of other pet classes.

Then you state:
What I also see is that beastlords have not been compensated in any way even after this ludicrous change. We haven't been given any new spells specially designed to help us adapt, our spells havent been made more effective or efficient and our pets have not been restored to the damage that they should be doing in the first place. (quad + bash + kick , max hit 67 @ lvl 60.).

You yourself said that spells are not meant to be a substitute for dmg but an aid. Yes the aggro change has changed things, however, wiz and devs are changing it to where your class's pet can hold aggro. You compare your spell dmg with other pet classes. Your a mix of shaman/monk with a beefed up pet. Your spell dmg isn't supposed to be anywhere near the other pet classes. You might be thinking well if i'm a shaman/monk hybrid my heal should be better. Incorrect, look at paladins or rangers, and compare their healing spells. Yes you get good heals for your pet. You also get more buffs for your pet than any other pet classes. The simple matter is BL are a class to them selves.
 
You yourself said that spells are not meant to be a substitute for dmg but an aid.
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That is exactly correct - an aid to augment our capabilities or more closely, augment the style in which BL's are played. PET + (melee) + (spells) = BL. Decrease any in that equation and you need to increase one or the other, hence the word COMPENSATE.



Your a mix of shaman/monk with a beefed up pet. Your spell dmg isn't supposed to be anywhere near the other pet classes.
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umm ok...so you're backing up my point then? our pets are beefed up to ensure that we can still do our job without making us overpowered in the spell department. But if our pets get nerfed then our spells must be made more effective or efficient. Again, I dont see the point you are trying to make other than backing up what i've been saying.


You might be thinking well if i'm a shaman/monk hybrid my heal should be better. Incorrect, look at paladins or rangers, and compare their healing spells. Yes you get good heals for your pet. You also get more buffs for your pet than any other pet classes. The simple matter is BL are a class to them selves.
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Here i think you misunderstood the point entirely. It was never argued that BL should get better heals, that would be silly. What was said, was that if the pets were to be made weaker (weaker than they already are) then they would obviously not be able to tank as they were meant to (i.e. live model - which we can assume was the basis for the creation and balancing of the heal spells implemented intially). Which comes back to the same basic point - if you take something away from the equation you need to put something back in or increase another part of it.

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With that aside, now that there are new styles available which help compensate for these intial changes, it's time to test how effective they are.
 
Which comes back to the same basic point - if you take something away from the equation you need to put something back in or increase another part of it.
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Waves a hand in front of bobo's face

Hello sir? Remember me? The guy that just beefed up your pet the same patch? Yeah. Me.
 
yes i know that now wiz, people just keep bringing up irrelevant points though and must be addressed. As i said, now that there are new styles to help compensate plus that you've beefed up our pet it it should be all ok again - something that testing will obviously prove in time.
 
bobothedino said:
yes i know that now wiz, people just keep bringing up irrelevant points though and must be addressed. As i said, now that there are new styles to help compensate plus that you've beefed up our pet it it should be all ok again - something that testing will obviously prove in time.
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Alright then.
 
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