Ranger Runic2

[Kedrin]

Like sending a shockwave out of your bow that damages mobs between you and the targeted mob in a cone.

So when he said "basically Marza's spell" he means nothing like the spell Marza changed ranger's runic 2 into?

If it was anything like Marza's spell but has a "scaled proc rate" that procced off bow shots it would be a 700 mana cost spell to have the ability to proc a PBAE for 3 ticks or 18 seconds.

Let us take Acid Tongue with 135 delay.
If you had:
48% item haste (the best haste item in the game)
and
77% spell haste from GoE (the best buff haste in the game)
you should have 125% haste; making the bow 60 delay, so you would shoot once every 6 seconds.
This means that 99% of the time you will only get off 2 procs even at a 100% proc rate in the 18 seconds window.
the base damage of this spell is 400. 400 * 2 is 800. 800 damage for 700 mana is 1.14 damage per mana
Icerend (a randomd spell any level 65 ranger can buy from listsold) is 875 damage for 555 mana or 1.57 damage per mana

This sounds amazing. I was always disappointed that the ranger runic2 required you to melee for it to go off.

I guess I am the only one who enjoys the fact that runic2 gives rangers the ability to be ok when having to melee for some fights that they can not use their bow in.

 

[cian2]

obviously the damage would have to be turned up dramatically if it were a bow proc, but honestly i am not a fan of making it a bow proc.

with marza's changes (flaring blades and glacial strike) he tried to turn rangers into a more versatile class, with the ability to run up into melee range for a big nuke/bursty ae melee dps every once in awhile, instead of just sitting back with autoshot on and casting the occasional spell. in my opinion, this made the class a lot more interesting to play, and made them appear much more appealing for groups/raids. rather than just holding weapons for stats, now you can actually use them (not to mention it promotes dual wielding, as opposed to before when you had to use a 2h to do "max" (still bad) melee damage which prevented /s 4 and seems odd for the class)

and the class was better for it. yeah, it's kind of a bandage to use a runic2 to "fix" a class, but almost every class gets a big boost at some single point in the game:

bst/mnk get shadowstaff and then horok
all healers get one of the 3 melee weapons (crystalis/cella/verdict) & and the haste items
warriors with scythe
ortananoch for bard/rog/war
bane of the fallen god for casters
and then runic2 for some classes (ranger/druid/mage/bst/necro/shd)

i don't really see the crime in it. it makes an otherwise bland class pretty interesting, and gives rangers a reason to strive to obtain their runic2, knowing it gives you the ability to have a useful activated ability for exp/raids, and adds depth to your class.

and let's be honest here, even with a 6 delay weapon, rangers still arent even the best aoe class in the game! i do think it should be revamped to scale with delay, not because its overpowered, but so that it doesn't shoehorn you into using the fastest weapon you can get.

Let us take Acid Tongue with 135 delay.

sounds like you need a http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Ashenstrike

 

[Boehm]

bane of the fallen god for wizards and mages
[/url]

fixed

 

[jew_nose_it]

Acid Tongue is 77 delay you rtard.

 

[eqjenius]

with marza's changes (flaring blades and glacial strike) he tried to turn rangers into a more versatile class, with the ability to run up into melee range for a big nuke/bursty ae melee dps every once in awhile, instead of just sitting back with autoshot on and casting the occasional spell. in my opinion, this made the class a lot more interesting to play, and made them appear much more appealing for groups/raids. rather than just holding weapons for stats, now you can actually use them (not to mention it promotes dual wielding, as opposed to before when you had to use a 2h to do "max" (still bad) melee damage which prevented /s 4 and seems odd for the class)

I agree with this. I'm never opposed to a new spell which will passively increase my DPS, but I much prefer the ability to be more versatile and useful in situations beyond ranged DPS. Versatility of my toon makes the game more enjoyable and gives me more opportunities to try things in game.

I was also looking forward to the melee proc. Another bow proc would be cool but less interesting.

 

[Silosobi]

I also kinda thought the ranger meele thing was neat. The spell needed a bit more damage and scaling to delay, but even as it is now, rangers are never at the top of the dps charts.

If it changes to bow, it probably needs a longer duration and more damage. I think the cone idea could be cool too.

 

[Kedrin]

Acid Tongue is 77 delay you rtard.

oh yeah I'm dumb, and was drunk/tired/high/sleepwalking when I made that post above

 

[Udeni]

I would be so so SOOOO sad if this was made a bow proc. I've been looking forward to getting a nice good melee aoe proc so i would be better melee dps (because rangers are pretty terrible melee dps) Making it scale with weapon delay would work, because then nobody would be like omgomg must farm steam powered autoslicer (lol). I don't really see anything wrong with a high proc rate on this spell.

And also, runic 1 is a bow proc. Why would you make runic 2 another bow proc? It seems silly/dumb/one-dimensional.

 

[Boehm]

You are all over looking that fact that the spell also helped rangers to pick up aggro with 2 one handers equipped in difficult spots. Vastly aiding their raid utility when 20 seconds can be a very long time.

 

[dranger]

Welp, looks like I am the only ranger that would rather a new runic2 instead of Flaring Blades. I dunno, I just prefer to use bow as often as possible and I only go melee range if absolutely necessary.

I also hate Glacial Strike because it only has 15 range.

 

[Rorne]

I dunno, I just prefer to use bow as often as possible and I only go melee range if absolutely necessary.

For the times when melee is unavoidable wouldn't it be nice to have something to enhance that though?

 

[Waldoff]

Yeah everyone here seems to be under the impression that it is a good idea for a runic 2 to take a class from 0 at a niche to almost the best at the niche. The old melee proc made rangers one of the most effective PBAE classes in the game.

There are arguments that could be made about rangers not being up to snuff around the later tiers - but those are not arguments for letting a single spell be the balancing fulcrum.

The bow proc gives the ranger a lot of multi mob damage without stepping on the PBAE toes of the casters. It seems like a good compromise to me.

Currently thinking:

Blazing Arrows
High Mana Cost
500 Range, -200 Fire
Frontal Cone along the arrows path.
1750 damage - Either 18 seconds with rate scaled to delay or X hits.

I kind of like X hits because while it still sort of incentivizes a faster bow, since it only effects damage RATE and not total damage I am not sure it will be as big a deal.

Alternatively making it one big proc along the arrow would work too I think.

 

[Kedrin]

Yeah everyone here seems to be under the impression that it is a good idea for a runic 2 to take a class from 0 at a niche to almost the best at the niche. The old melee proc made rangers one of the most effective PBAE classes in the game.

With runic 2; Wizards, Mages, Necros, and Druids are all still better at EA damage then a ranger. They also don't have small 18 seconds windows they have to do their AE damage in.

I don't see how we are stepping on anyone's toes.

You can also say Druids runic 2 takes "a class from 0 at a niche to almost the best at the niche" I don't understand why you're applying such logic to one class and not another.

I also hate Glacial Strike because it only has 15 range.

I also don't understand the ranged on this spell. Perhaps running in and out to use the spell on cool down between arrows shots means you have "skill"

 

[Waldoff]

You can also say Druids runic 2 takes "a class from 0 at a niche to almost the best at the niche" I don't understand why you're applying such logic to one class and not another.

I would happily apply the same logic to all the runics if there are other problems. How does cataclysm make Druids something they werent? Is the AE damage that overpowered?

And what spell makes Necromancers better at PBAE than a ranger with the old spell?

 

[Kedrin]

Do you even play SoD? I find it funny that someone who has the ability to make changes to this game is asking such questions. Or perhaps it is just sad.

 

[Silosobi]

It does make rangers really good at PBAE for a short duration on a longer CD... (although for that duration, they are maybe the best pbae dps in the game)

I dont personally see this as an issue, since I don't know of anywhere in the game where pbae is a crucial part of balance, its mostly used for exp, and its not a niche that seems to be any classes core role. Iksith made necros superb PBAE, probably the best, from having almost nothing. Wizards used to be #1 and we are like #5 now because we gained very little while other classes gained lots.

With all that said, I guess I could be okay with the spell - it should probably still provide a decent dps bonus for rangers. I kind of like the 1 shot idea since that makes it easy to assure all bows are equal.

Blazing Arrows
.5 sec cast
30s recast
500 mana
500 Range, -200 Fire
Frontal Cone along the arrows path.
2250 damage.

 

[Rorne]

Here is what I don't get. How is doing PBAE damage with a weapon stepping on caster toes but doing it with a bow isn't. I mean as long as you're smart with your targets isn't firing into a crowd basically the same thing?

There are arguments that could be made about rangers not being up to snuff around the later tiers - but those are not arguments for letting a single spell be the balancing fulcrum.

I get what you're saying but why push the bow proc if rangers want something to bridge the large disparity between melee and archery? If they feel like an increase in their melee potential would be a better addition why not at least try to explore that.

 

[Silosobi]

Do you even play SoD? I find it funny that someone who has the ability to make changes to this game is asking such questions. Or perhaps it is just sad.

Also feeling a bit of this (and its echoed in /gu and vent).

That is said with a lot of respect too. You are giving your time to help us have fun on a free mmo and i really appreciate that, but the SoD endgame has changed a lot and suddenly reverting classes back to their "true" roles when they have been encroaching into other territory suddenly can break the balance with content that we still often end oom for.

 

[Waldoff]

Do you even play SoD? I find it funny that someone who has the ability to make changes to this game is asking such questions. Or perhaps it is just sad.

This was a nice way of saying I think you are full of shit about the old spell given the parses I have seen and I would like you to show me if I am wrong. You can always just make insults though instead - that gets shit done.

Alternately this may be a symptom that a lot of the runic 2's were changed or not oversaw very well in relation to each other. Luckily for you I am on the case!

Here is what I don't get. How is doing PBAE damage with a weapon stepping on caster toes but doing it with a bow isn't. I mean as long as you're smart with your targets isn't firing into a crowd basically the same thing?

There is an inherent difference between being able to wade into a group of mobs and hurt a shitload of them and have to align a bunch of mobs into a conic and hurt them that way. The difference may not be huge sounding but there are a lot of perks in aggro (especially away from casters), logistics of getting the mobs in place, "oh shit scenerios" etc that are not present in the alternate spell. It also gives the ranger the ability to use the spell for extra damage doing what we want rangers to do most - bow.

I get what you're saying but why push the bow proc if rangers want something to bridge the large disparity between melee and archery? If they feel like an increase in their melee potential would be a better addition why not at least try to explore that.

Rorne I would be okay with that but I have the feeling that the reason most people (IE Not You) are pushing for the melee side of things is that they know how powerful the old spell was. If someone comes up with a great idea for a melee centered spell that avoids the problems of the old one I am all ears. It will be at least a day until its all patched in.

 

[Silosobi]

And what spell makes Necromancers better at PBAE than a ranger with the old spell?

Necromancers get Herophant's Breath and a tome that makes diseases spread.

This PBAE Disease spell will spread over and over, each time doing its initial 1kish? pbae damage.

It used to be way OP, and got nerfed once already.

It feels a lot more okay to me now.. necros are still probably the king of AE dps (at least sustained long term), but they are no longer the king of single target dps that they were at lower tiers, and spreading disease/death around a pack of wimpy mobs just seems appropriate to me. It also cant be stopped once it starts, sometimes killing the necro, and always making mez impossible.

Cataclysm does pretty significant PBAE dps. Its more pbae damage output than a wizard outside of the small time we are using abstraction, but its mediocre for a single target, eats up almost all the druids cast time, and the snare/kb/highagro/etc effects make it not viable for most 6man and raid content, which once again makes it seem balanced. If the nice pbae damage was taken away I wouldn't see a lot of use in the spell, although maybe druids could use a runic gheal or quick heal or something instead.